For the structural issues at the root of the problem these past few seasons, no.

Ever the supporters’ lament. Our saviour wasn’t playing.

Very simple tactics. 11 man defence and play on the break. Good defenders (and always there in numbers) and world class attackers (who were there when needed).

Stoke with more options. Pulis football. No need for a midfield. Fat Sam with better players.

Painful to watch. Difficult to play against.

It’s not about being a saviour. It’s about wondering why a player in good form who demonstrates something that we need is omitted.

Not sure quite what to say about that game.....one of the most one-sided 2-0 defeats I ever seen. We dominated the game but lacked the quality to turn hugely promising situations into goals. Plenty of decent crosses but you need someone like Giroud if you are going to play that way.

Man United won many titles playing the percentage game with flying wingers putting dangerous crosses into the corridor of uncertainty, the difference being that they got men into the box and had players with the requisite physical and technical traits to turn what often amounted to no more than half chances into goals. Sadly, we don't have that.

Can anyone explain why Bellerin was substituted and Saka moved to RB?

Except we’ve been saying it for months. Against Wolves a few months ago - another counter attacking team, M-N nullified Traore, something we failed to do against them last week. He’s no one saviour but seems to me there’s a role for him here.

How much time does Arteta need here? And what constitutes a good season for him? Let’s say we manage mid table this season - out of Europe but stay up. What’s the minimum next season? I think europa places and then push for a top for the season on after. So aim for top 4 come March 2023 and I don’t even know if that’s realistic. I think he could be given that much time if he gets Europa places next season.

One foul throw too many?

No offence Ash but as supporters, we are always looking to those who aren’t playing to solve the issues of those who are.

Actually we are looking for those who are playing to play better than those who aren’t.

A side note but did anyone else notice Kane do his standard dangerous foul of backing in to a player going up for a header, essentially tipping that player so he lands flat on his back at best. Kane actually won a penalty doing this and never gets called for a foul. It really is only a matter of time before he causes a serious injury doing this. The way players fall after being tipped by him has dislocated shoulder, broken collar bone, concussions or neck injuries written all over it. I find it pathetic that refs in this country can never see such deliberate sneaky foul play, it stems from refs knowing the rules but not understanding an ounce of the game or what goes on in a players mind

It’s a tricky question but I think theres about 10 better sides in this league than us so if he finishes around 10th I’d suggest.

His success for next season will be determined by what happens off the pitch with recruitment rather than on it. This squad needs a complete rebuild and has only a handful of decent players

At the moment the Arsenal managers job is a greater poisoned chalice than the England managers job.

Thanks LTG. That was precisely the point I was making.

Comment number 6 on this page Rich #519726

It was called making a back in my playing days, and happened a lot.

Difference then was if you did it, you had to expect someone going through you from behind pretty shortly after.

Really concerned by 3 things with Arteta now
1. The line ups he’s picking. The same slow and out of form players
2. This new ‘crossing’ game plan - how many today and v wolves, it must be just about the least likely way for us to score a goal
3. Post match comments saying the team did everything he expected of them and effectively saying what we worked on we did. Such nonsense. Surely we knew how spurs would play it’s how Jose plays in every big game and we get caught twice by it.

It’s one thing not having good enough players but don’t compound it with the 3 things above

Arsenal are a lovely club rich in stature, history, reputation, currently sitting on.....landfill. In the illustrious words of Josh Kroenke, Arsenal are on a "Champions League wage bill on a Europa League budget". Oh yes, please "be excited". So far, 12 years and counting of KSE. Shall we have more? You got it. It ain't over.

You think it was. But it wasn’t.

Can we just look at this for the utter chaos that is ready to unfold for the second goal.
Aurier is just about to win the ball from Aubameyang. Partey is hobbling off the pitch on the right touchline which leaves a 3v2 at the back, even if Partey is fit it is a 3v3 which is far too risky....but then add in 2 more spurs mids who are in the gap between our defence and midfield.

One simple pass to Lo Celso and he is in so much space, no one within 25 yards and can’t get near him. One simple clearance becomes a 4 on 2 one minute before half time and the goal kills the game.

Where is the awareness of literally anybody in this team. I don’t blame Bellerin, he’s made a decent run to get in the box and square the ball, it didn’t come off but where is the cover.

Arseblog on Willian:

"He plays like a feckin Willy. Soaring up the charts in the Top of the Pops of the worst Arsenal signings of all time. He's just overtaken Squillaci."

Bit too deep for me there Ash.

Grasshopper stuff.

I find myself looking at what we need to improve our team. I've totally given up on any of the current team improving to a point where we might consider them good enough for us. Every time I go through the side I find myself adding a position or player that needs upgrading.

Priority order now:
1. Creative central midfielder
2. Right sided centre back
3. Holding central midfielder
4. striker
5. right back
6. winger

Assuming those are all top class signings - a ridiculous challenge in itself, that sorts the first 11, then you just to fill in the squad.

Wolves being absolutely outclassed by Liverpool 3-0. The same Wolves who outclasses us and then kept us easily at arms length in the 2nd half. Depressing how far away we are.

Next two games are Burnley and Southampton at home. If we take less than 4 points then we're in full blown crisis (if we're not there already). Less than 4 points will mean either a pair of draws or at least one more home defeat to a team we should beat. Unthinkable.

I didn’t get up for the game . Just watched 25 min highlights. The moment we started with Partey Xhaka and Willian he lost me. Partey because Arteta is prepared to risk a players long term injury to save his job. We now only have the relegation candidates below us on the table. I really want to vent a lot more but I will say Arteta is a coach not a manager as his man management is appalling. About as bad as Lenos positioning and response on the first goal.

In that case keep your $@$*#y patronising bollocks to yourself then

Transfer policy has been a massive problem, our players are simply not good enough. We are signing players then having to move them on quickly for whatever reason Torreira, Guendouzi patching the squad up with overpaid makeshift fillers.

Chucking youngsters into the mix who simply aren’t ready like willock, Nketiah even Nelson. Just nowhere near the level required

It’s such a *%^@*** mess

Just seen some stats and rankings of where we sit in the league.
Chances created = 20th
Shots on target = 18th
Goals = 17th

If we wanted to be more solid at the back to mean we don't concede so many chances every game it is utterly pointless if we offer nothing, and I mean nothing going forward. It is basically just waiting for the first goal for the opposition and you'll lose the game.

Plenty of teams go through rough periods and the thing that always gets them out of it is character, hard work and a sheer determination to pick up some points no matter what it takes. Where are those players in this squad?

I see Aubameyangs agent just put this on social media. He’s basically highlighting it’s not his client fault. He’s right it’s not. I’ve read all manner of nonsense about Aubameyang now and people talking *%^@ about him not trying since his new contract. He’s scored goals at every level he’s played at. Our fans have rocks in their heads these days

James from Gunnerblog stated there is a stat that Arsenal have the least second half shots of all 92 teams in the football league. I assume this season.

Souness absolutely hits the nail on the head when talking about Xhaka. Souness says as a central midfielder, particularly a more defensive minded one you should always be looking over your shoulder thinking ‘where are we vulnerable’ and Xhaka never ever does that.

It really is time to give someone else a go

Don’t think I was patronising you there Ash. Sorry if you think I was. I just didn’t understand the point you were trying to make.

So while Tottenham under Mourinho are first, we are 15th with the only five teams below us being, from 16th down, Brighton, Fulham, Burnley, West Bromwich and Sheffield United. I’m beginning to think we’re fortunate there’s enough absolute rubbish in that group to save us from relegation.

I still support giving Arteta more time as I don’t want Arsenal to become a sacking club. But considering our lack of mobility in midfield I think he’s an idiot getting rid of the player who comfortably gave us the most energy in that area of the pitch, Guendouzi. Moreover, to be honest that’s not the only issue giving me doubts about Arteta.

About Maitland-Niles? Really how hard was that to work out.

AMN played a full and very active game on Thursday. He was never going to start today. He might have been on the bench, I grant you but well though he played the other day, he would never have been a part of tonight’s planning.

Bellerin passed onto opposition players at least 4 times, and one of them led to the quick attack for their goal. He is no longer a valuable player to the team.

And look at where Willian is? Not close enough to support the play, and not anywhere near to defend when needed. Lazily standing far away from the action.

Agree regards Lenos positioning for the first goal.

A friend asked me if I thought Arteta's position was irredeemable and if so why. It is a personal opinion but I believe it is. Let me give my reasons. It is not just the results.

Firstly -It is the lack of a cohesive way to play. There is no style of play at all that we are aiming towards. He started with defend, press and score off the break. Other managers have now taken that apart on a regular basis. So, his next plan which he is spruiking in press conferences is numerous crosses and we will score. Crosses are generally recognized as a low return way to score. But an essential is a great header in the box. There are no Alan Gilzean’s in the Arsenal team and while we can get crosses in most players have no ability to pick out a player. It is luck if anyone gets onto the cross at all. Tactically this is a stone age tactic and I can see no value in it. How you hope to bring the players along with you, with such a plan, is a mystery to me.

Secondly - He has his favourites but they are not performing. Just as an example - Willian and Xhaka chosen again when they continue to disappoint. But his players also breach the whole ethos that he is trying to sell to us. The ‘non negotiables’ he told us about. Apparently, Guendouzi’s actions at Brighton were non negotiable. He never played for the club again. Tierney behaved at least to the same extent, if not even worse and no action at all. Willian flew basically 12 hours return for lunch against club and country rules – no action. He is untouchable. If he was playing out of this world he might get away with it but he is not. Ceballos blow ups at training and with M-N before a game and not a word. Last season, Ceballos was whinging about no game time and apparently not training well. What do you know within days a miracle – he is picked. He is not good enough in the position IMO and never will be.

Thirdly – Who plays. Martenelli was not picked to play last for numerous games before he was injured. M-N does not get game time – why not. Saliba – this is a disgrace. Arteta tells us he is good at getting the best out of players and yet he has not worked with this kid at all. Partey – was not fit for the NLD and was sacrificed by Arteta. I won’t even talk thru Özil and Guendouzi on this.

Fourthly – The players he has bought in create long term problems with overpaid underperforming players stuck at the club for many years to come. He were told we would be buying young players and developing them only last year. Now we buy players who are very old and will have no resale value. There is no cohesive plan for the future.

In summary, he would need to change many aspects of his role before I can even consider he should stay beyond this season. Disappointed is the least I can say.

"I take a lot of positives for the way we played, when we come here in this moment and play with the personality, the courage, the passion, the energy and the belief the boys showed. At the end it's a football match and you have to win it, and we lost again today."

Worrisome, Arteta is beginning to sound like Wenger

When that happened to the Glazers, the father followed the son's advice to just 'shut up, stay out and sign checks'. They were told how much is needed and sanctioned the amount. Let the football people handle it. They have their ups and downs but they can't be accused of being penny pinchers.

It's easy to say it but it really does start at the top. I said a long time ago, when the Kroenke's were being considered over Usmanov. You don't want American owners who don't know/love/respect the sport. They will 'cock it up' as you all say.

Anyway, that said, Arteta? Right man, wrong tactics. Not sure what he's trying to do. I think he'll figure it out eventually. Xhaka must be one helluva practice player. He has the respect of this teammates. Those are the only two attributes I can see. I don't see enough on the pitch to warrant the starts and minutes he gets. Seems a nice enough guy but you don't get points for being nice.

I hope we aren't looking to change managers so quickly. End up like Newcastle, Sunderland, Palace, West Ham and a few others did for a while and have more managers than seasons for a spell. Any big name is going to want to spend.

Very apt, agree 100%