Fixtures Monday December 6th - Everton - Goodison Park - 8:00 Pm

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Post #538361  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:06 pm 
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Guess we single handedly saved Rafa's career

Those are the sort of games that do my head in. An Everton team who havent won in weeks. Devoid of confidence. Key players missing. We go one up and then go into a shell in the second half .............only start playing after they equalize....from our f..ing throwin...watch how many times we lose the ball from our throw- ins ...it's ridiculous

Add in a joke Mike Dean who should've issued two reds and I'm so aggravated. I'm starting to resent Arteta...his selection, tactics and man management

We were piss poor tonight against a team down on it's luck and we get nothing. Two trips to Lancashire in four days...twice we take the lead and both times end up with sweet f all..

I cant think of one player who deserves a shout out....maybe Tomiyasu for his attitude


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Post #538362  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
We're continually handing the initiative to poor teams, we stand off, we're passive and we're uncommitted. When we play fast aggressive football we look ok- but we only do it in fits and starts in games. We're a completely cowardly team right now

Yes. It was blindingly obvious we needed a second goal, especially as their fans would have turned on them. But instead of taking it to them and turning the screw we were sitting back wasting time when there was an eternity left to go, asking for trouble. Which we duly got.


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Post #538363  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:07 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
Got to agree. He has to go.

It’s a shocking performance but we are 4 points off top 4 having got many tough away games out the way now with a string of winnable games coming up.

It sucks but just need to crack on and see where we are end of season.

Felt very familiar though and what’s happened to aubameyangs finishing I don’t know


The trouble with that theory is this was probably one of the most winnable games we had and we still managed to *%^@ it up. We have no heart, no leaders and an entirely predictable team approach that all other teams read and absorb without difficulty.

Much as I hate to point it out, Spuds are already reaping the benefits of appointing a proper manager as did Chelsea before them. Waiting until the end of the season will only weaken us further


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Post #538364  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:13 pm 
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AndyB wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a shocking performance but we are 4 points off top 4 having got many tough away games out the way now with a string of winnable games coming up.

It sucks but just need to crack on and see where we are end of season.

Felt very familiar though and what’s happened to aubameyangs finishing I don’t know


The trouble with that theory is this was probably one of the most winnable games we had and we still managed to *%^@ it up. We have no heart, no leaders and an entirely predictable team approach that all other teams read and absorb without difficulty.

Much as I hate to point it out, Spuds are already reaping the benefits of appointing a proper manager as did Chelsea before them. Waiting until the end of the season will only weaken us further


Spurs have 2 natural match winners in their squad in Kane and son. Arteta doesnt. He must be ripping his hair out with aubameyangs finishing.

That said I thought the managers substitutions were inexplicable and I don’t trust Tavares at all yet in tough away games.

This team can play football but it’s a young side and very inconsistent and will get turned over every once in a while. I just want to see how it pans out now we have a run 0f home games coming up.


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Post #538365  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:14 pm 
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Really disappointing again.

We are just so bang average and rarely a good watch, even when we win a game. Not a terrible side fundamentally but just not a very good side either, right in that middle ground of a side who can look good one minute and poor the next, often in the same game.

I mean we create so little of real substance that our forwards are basically feeding off scraps and once Aubameyang stopped converting 1 in 2 chances, which was never sustainable, we found it hard to score goals.

I thought Ødegaard was good tonight the rest were rubbish. We were lucky not to concede 4 or 5.


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Post #538366  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:14 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a shocking performance but we are 4 points off top 4 having got many tough away games out the way now with a string of winnable games coming up.

It's not just about the table though. Man Utd came second under Mourinho, but watching them play that season it was obvious they were going nowhere. We basically manage a good performance every three games, it's nowhere near good enough and it doesn't look like we're building up to something.


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Post #538367  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:16 pm 
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1-0 up away from home with 10 minutes to go - you must see those games out, you simply cannot be a serious team if you contrive to lose from that position - especially if you're playing one of the most out of form teams in the league.

Both our last two games have been there for the taking.


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Post #538368  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:17 pm 
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Someone needs to sort our throw ins out, we lose the ball on every single one. So often the thrower takes ages to take it because he can;t find anyone who isn't closely marked. Cost us a goal today


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Post #538369  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:18 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
but if Arteta has a single positive word to say about this performance I'm going to lose it



Well fasten your seatbelt and start popping the valiums because Arteta is a Wenger clone ...... nailed on he'll find positives

The 64% possession stat will have warped his brain into some "we controlled the game so were unlucky to lose " mode


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Post #538370  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:19 pm 
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Lost three on the bounce away. Worst goal difference on the road to every other team bar Norwich. We’re *%^@. There is no progress. We beat the absolute dross and that’s it. Bored of it now.

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Post #538371  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:20 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a shocking performance but we are 4 points off top 4 having got many tough away games out the way now with a string of winnable games coming up.

It's not just about the table though. Man Utd came second under Mourinho, but watching them play that season it was obvious they were going nowhere. We basically manage a good performance every three games, it's nowhere near good enough and it doesn't look like we're building up to something.

I’m sorry I watch us week in week out and prior to the Liverpool game we were on a strong run of form and looked promising. It’s not impossible that we can put another run together.

*%^@ substitutions aside.

If we are sacking managers 4 points off top 4 in December we are going to be going through quite a few.


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Post #538372  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:20 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AndyB wrote:

The trouble with that theory is this was probably one of the most winnable games we had and we still managed to *%^@ it up. We have no heart, no leaders and an entirely predictable team approach that all other teams read and absorb without difficulty.

Much as I hate to point it out, Spuds are already reaping the benefits of appointing a proper manager as did Chelsea before them. Waiting until the end of the season will only weaken us further


Spurs have 2 natural match winners in their squad in Kane and son. Arteta doesnt. He must be ripping his hair out with aubameyangs finishing.

That said I thought the managers substitutions were inexplicable and I don’t trust Tavares at all yet in tough away games.

This team can play football but it’s a young side and very inconsistent and will get turned over every once in a while. I just want to see how it pans out now we have a run 0f home games coming up.


TG, you are admirably loyal to Arteta but we have more than a few match winners in our team, it’s just Arteta rarely gets a tune out of them. Hazuki is right, the poor games massively outweigh the good ones. As you say, We do have inexperienced players but we also have massive experienced ones who used to be effective. They don’t seem to be now with any frequency and that must be down to the manager and his systems of play which doesn’t get the best out of them. Aubameyang is certainly out of form but that’s not the main reason for our mostly poor performance in my opinion.


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Post #538373  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:23 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Well fasten your seatbelt and start popping the valiums because Arteta is a Wenger clone ...... nailed on he'll find positives

I just popped out for a smoke to calm my nerves, and it's -17 outside so I'm ready


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Post #538374  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:24 pm 
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Think I’m leaning towards Top Gun on this one. Aubameyang is a horror show in that it’s absolutely killing the team for him to be so out of form. If it doesn’t get much better then by definition he’s finished. But honestly 2 red card challenges that aren’t even given as fouls? That tells you you aren’t safe on the pitch. Especially if you’re a young player you’re going to shrink. We weren’t good but honestly *%^@ Mike Riley, sorry, Dean. Right into the sun.

It was woeful, but I think we’ll just wait and see where we are after Christmas. If at the end of the season we’ve made too 6, which is far far from impossible I’d definitely keep Arteta. Even if we’re 7th I’d be tempted to give him these players for one more year. 8th again I think he has to go.


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Post #538375  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:25 pm 
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In many ways that game is the perfect recipe of Arsenal frustration over the last 6 years.
Start the game too slowly
Lose second balls to a more determined but less skilled opponent
Create hardly anything
Don’t test their gk with enough shots on target
Clear game changing decision from the ref against us
Clear cut chance missed
Wonder goal to win it for them

Repeat


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Post #538376  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:26 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I’m sorry I watch us week in week out and prior to the Liverpool game we were on a strong run of form and looked promising. It’s not impossible that we can put another run together.

And how many good performances in that run? I don't think we looked particularly convincing against Newcastle or Watford, they're just very poor teams. Against Crystal Palace and Brighton we were poor. Against Tottenham, Aston Villa and Leicester we were excellent. Sometimes it's okay to get a win even when not performing well, but when it becomes the norm rather than the exception, it's obvious it won't last in the long run.


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Post #538377  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:28 pm 
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That’s the third clear red card not given to our opponents this season. McArthur deciding volleying Saka was better than the ball, Evans fouling Aubameyang who had a clear goal scoring opportunity and this the worst of the lot for a stamp to the face.


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Post #538378  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
In many ways that game is the perfect recipe of Arsenal frustration over the last 6 years.
Start the game too slowly
Lose second balls to a more determined but less skilled opponent
Create hardly anything
Don’t test their gk with enough shots on target
Clear game changing decision from the ref against us
Clear cut chance missed
Wonder goal to win it for them

Repeat


Yep. Why did we tune in again? I was young and carefree at five minutes to eight this evening. :20hospitals:


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Post #538379  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:34 pm 
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AndyB wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Spurs have 2 natural match winners in their squad in Kane and son. Arteta doesnt. He must be ripping his hair out with aubameyangs finishing.

That said I thought the managers substitutions were inexplicable and I don’t trust Tavares at all yet in tough away games.

This team can play football but it’s a young side and very inconsistent and will get turned over every once in a while. I just want to see how it pans out now we have a run 0f home games coming up.


TG, you are admirably loyal to Arteta but we have more than a few match winners in our team, it’s just Arteta rarely gets a tune out of them. Hazuki is right, the poor games massively outweigh the good ones. As you say, We do have inexperienced players but we also have massive experienced ones who used to be effective. They don’t seem to be now with any frequency and that must be down to the manager and his systems of play which doesn’t get the best out of them. Aubameyang is certainly out of form but that’s not the main reason for our mostly poor performance in my opinion.


I’m not loyal to Arteta, I’m not even convinced he’s the right man I thought the substitutions were *%^@*** stupid today and not for the first time either. However there’s no point sticking your head in the sand. No manager gets us in the top 3 with this squad it is so young inexperienced and naive.

I saw the same xhaka strolling round the pitch I’ve seen before for 2 other managers. Aubameyang and Lacazette are past it I’m afraid. That doesn’t change if you replace the manager.

Match winners ? Be honest is there a single attacker in our squae you wouldn’t swap son or Kane for.


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Post #538380  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:34 pm 
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Arteta needs to be more proactive, he needs to learn how to manage a game aggressively. Change things earlier when things are not going to plan, shake things up.

The bottom line is we need to start creating more chances........somehow, because every team in the PL has players who cant hurt you at any moment and it is incredibly difficult to keep clean sheets.


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Post #538381  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:37 pm 
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I was very frustrated by the Man U game as it was an opportunity to show we were making serious progress under Arteta and instead it showed up our weaknesses at the highest level. Tonight's match was an opportunity to show that we have the fortitude to bounce back in a potentially tricky game. If you want to be generous you could say this young Arsenal team is a work in progress, but tonight I'm left (again) with the feeling that Arteta is probably not the man for the job.


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Post #538382  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:38 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I’m sorry I watch us week in week out and prior to the Liverpool game we were on a strong run of form and looked promising. It’s not impossible that we can put another run together.

And how many good performances in that run? I don't think we looked particularly convincing against Newcastle or Watford, they're just very poor teams. Against Crystal Palace and Brighton we were poor. Against Tottenham, Aston Villa and Leicester we were excellent. Sometimes it's okay to get a win even when not performing well, but when it becomes the norm rather than the exception, it's obvious it won't last in the long run.


That’s also true. This team clearly needs to mature a lot. Arteta too, but with a decent striker in the style Arteta wants you’ve got to think this team has got an upward trajectory. It’s just deciding if the team can actually achieve that, and then if the decision is made it’s not going to happen with Mikel then we need to get someone else in ASAP. But I’d rather wait for the right guy than “GET RID” now. How’s that going to work?


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Post #538383  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:41 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AndyB wrote:

TG, you are admirably loyal to Arteta but we have more than a few match winners in our team, it’s just Arteta rarely gets a tune out of them. Hazuki is right, the poor games massively outweigh the good ones. As you say, We do have inexperienced players but we also have massive experienced ones who used to be effective. They don’t seem to be now with any frequency and that must be down to the manager and his systems of play which doesn’t get the best out of them. Aubameyang is certainly out of form but that’s not the main reason for our mostly poor performance in my opinion.


I’m not loyal to Arteta, I’m not even convinced he’s the right man I thought the substitutions were *%^@*** stupid today and not for the first time either. However there’s no point sticking your head in the sand. No manager gets us in the top 3 with this squad it is so young inexperienced and naive.

I saw the same xhaka strolling round the pitch I’ve seen before for 2 other managers. Aubameyang and Lacazette are past it I’m afraid. That doesn’t change if you replace the manager.


Who picks xhaka? Arteta. Who sets the tactics? Arteta. No one is suggesting we should be top 3, certainly not me, but I think we should be more consistent, more positive and less predictable and challenging for the fourth place in the league. All of these characteristics are symptomatic of a good manager. Arteta doesn’t have the capability to get the best out of the players he has and that makes him not good enough for Arsenal.

I gave up my season ticket when Wenger ruined our club and I won’t be getting it back until we have someone in charge who might lead us to something better. Arteta is not that person


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Post #538384  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:42 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Arteta needs to be more proactive, he needs to learn how to manage a game aggressively.

If you want examples of that, you just have to look at our best performances this season - against Tottenham, Aston Villa and Leicester we came out on the front foot and allowed ourselves to dictate the play by showing more energy and determination than our opponents. Liverpool and Man City are not great teams only because of their quality, but because they constantly outwork their opponent, and it's the same reason why West Ham are much higher up the table than they should be when looking at their squad. It's just something you need to do regardless of the quality of players you have, and we rarely manage to do it.


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Post #538385  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:43 pm 
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Were desperately lacking any kind of centre forward who can give us the basics, or even just contribute to the attacking phases of play. Look how many dangerous moments richarlison had tonight, there are strikers up and down the league who would instantly improve us and I’d include strikers like Che Adams and Alan Armstrong at Southampton who we face next. Watch them give our defence more basic problems than our strikers do their defence


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Post #538386  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:44 pm 
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I thought we would lose this match one nil so i'm not especially surprised by tonight's loss. But what I found really frustrating and depressing is that when Everton began to dominat the 2nd half Arteta seemed unable to change it.


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Post #538387  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:47 pm 
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AndyB wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I’m not loyal to Arteta, I’m not even convinced he’s the right man I thought the substitutions were *%^@*** stupid today and not for the first time either. However there’s no point sticking your head in the sand. No manager gets us in the top 3 with this squad it is so young inexperienced and naive.

I saw the same xhaka strolling round the pitch I’ve seen before for 2 other managers. Aubameyang and Lacazette are past it I’m afraid. That doesn’t change if you replace the manager.


Who picks xhaka? Arteta. Who sets the tactics? Arteta. No one is suggesting we should be top 3, certainly not me, but I think we should be more consistent, more positive and less predictable and challenging for the fourth place in the league. All of these characteristics are symptomatic of a good manager. Arteta doesn’t have the capability to get the best out of the players he has and that makes him not good enough for Arsenal.



It’s not a given we should be competing for 4th with this squad. You must see that right ? Give klopp, guardiola or anyone the job and they would struggle.

Where’s our salah, ronaldo, de bruyne or Lukaku. We just don’t have players of that calibre right now.

If we are lower than 7th by the end of the season he has to go but it’s not an easy task and I’m telling you right now swapping the manager out won’t correct some of the horrendous *%^@ your seeing


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Post #538388  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:54 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AndyB wrote:

Who picks xhaka? Arteta. Who sets the tactics? Arteta. No one is suggesting we should be top 3, certainly not me, but I think we should be more consistent, more positive and less predictable and challenging for the fourth place in the league. All of these characteristics are symptomatic of a good manager. Arteta doesn’t have the capability to get the best out of the players he has and that makes him not good enough for Arsenal.



It’s not a given we should be competing for 4th with this squad. You must see that right ? Give klopp, guardiola or anyone the job and they would struggle.

Where’s our salah, ronaldo, de bruyne or Lukaku. We just don’t have players of that calibre right now.

If we are lower than 7th by the end of the season he has to go but it’s not an easy task and I’m telling you right now swapping the manager out won’t correct some of the horrendous *%^@ your seeing


Given the money we've spent we should be competing for at least top 4 but we’re not. Who’s fault is that? The man who picks the players to buy and then trains them. I also fundamentally disagree with your premise that Klopp or Guardiola( or Conte, Tuchel or Rangnick for that matter) would not be doing better with the players we have but that’s a matter of opinion.

I will be astonished if we make top 8, let alone top 6 with the level of performances we’re producing. I think it more likely we will finish around 10th and for a team of our pedigree and wealth that’s not acceptable.

I hope I’m proved wrong


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Post #538389  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:00 pm 
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This sound stupid but it feels like all our worst performances this season have come in games when we’re the only game on at that time and we’re also on TV, usually away from home with a late kick off so the home fans can be extra up for it. Brentford, city, Liverpool, Man U, Everton all for this.
I’ve felt for years that I hate us being live on tv for away games on the Saturday morning or evening slot or the Monday night game. We always lose!


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Post #538390  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:02 pm 
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AndyB wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

It’s not a given we should be competing for 4th with this squad. You must see that right ? Give klopp, guardiola or anyone the job and they would struggle.

Where’s our salah, ronaldo, de bruyne or Lukaku. We just don’t have players of that calibre right now.

If we are lower than 7th by the end of the season he has to go but it’s not an easy task and I’m telling you right now swapping the manager out won’t correct some of the horrendous *%^@ your seeing


Given the money we've spent we should be competing for at least top 4 but we’re not. Who’s fault is that?


We had to stretch 150 million across 6 new players when Chelsea can spunk 100 on just 1.

Which of those signings we made were bad? We still need another 3 core players.

The bloke inherited the biggest mess of a squad I’ve ever seen. You must get that wholesale repairs in several positions were required. Right back especially. That money wasn’t wasted but has highlighted that wholesale change was required.


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Post #538391  Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:09 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AndyB wrote:

Given the money we've spent we should be competing for at least top 4 but we’re not. Who’s fault is that?



We had to stretch 150 million across 6 new players when Chelsea can spunk 100 on just 1.

Which of those signings we made were bad? We still need another 3 core players.

The bloke inherited the biggest mess of a squad I’ve ever seen. You must get that wholesale repairs in several positions were required. Right back especially. That money wasn’t wasted but has highlighted that wholesale change was required.


I didn’t say the purchases were bad, I said Arteta is mismanaging them and I stand by that. He has been financially supported in the pursuit of a a better squad and he hasn’t managed to get a tune out of them. Of course we’re not Chelsea ( or city or Newcastle or utd) but we’re not Norwich either. We’re not going to agree on this so there’s little point in debating it further. I hope you’re right and Arteta comes good but I very much doubt that’s going to happen. If he doesn’t another completely *%^@ season beckons


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Post #538392  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:00 am 
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AndyB wrote:
I didn’t say the purchases were bad, I said Arteta is mismanaging them and I stand by that. He has been financially supported in the pursuit of a a better squad and he hasn’t managed to get a tune out of them. Of course we’re not Chelsea ( or city or Newcastle or utd) but we’re not Norwich either. We’re not going to agree on this so there’s little point in debating it further. I hope you’re right and Arteta comes good but I very much doubt that’s going to happen. If he doesn’t another completely *%^@ season beckons

I have to agree AndyB. The squad as it stands is:

Keepers: Ramsdale, Leno, Okankwo
Right backs: Tomiyasu, Maitland-Niles, Cédric
Left backs: Tierney, Tavares, Kolasinac
Central defenders: White, Gabriel, Holding, Mari, Chambers
Central midfielders: Partey, Lokonga, Ødegaard, Xhaka, Maitland-Niles, Elneny
Wide players: Saka, Smith Rowe, Martinelli, Pépé
Strikers: Aubameyang, Lacazette, Balogun, Nketiah

I’ve included Maitland-Niles in two positions, right back and midfield. So there’s 27 different players in the squad. I think there’s a weakness in the forwards with Aubameyang so off form, with seven goals so far and only four of those in the Premier League. But Kane is giving Tottenham an even worse problem as he’s only scored one goal and is presumably playing useless to make Levy let him leave.

But I agree. There are quite a few managers who could get fourth spot with that squad. Not just the likes of Klopp, Guardiola and Tuchel but also Conte, Moyes, Rodgers, Gerrard and Potter. I really hope we sign a top forward in January. If we do, Arteta will have no excuses left. If we don’t sign another forward, questions have to be asked about Arteta’s man management of Aubameyang and Lacazette to make them so poor or demotivated.

Then there’s his style of football. It not only rarely works, it’s routinely a more effective sleeping pill than the commercially available ones.


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