Fixtures Sunday July 12th - Tottenham Hotspur - Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - 4:30 Pm

Kick-Off

       Injuries                    Steve Gleiber



Get the Latest Post Go to the Bottom of Page It is currently Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:41 am

All times are UTC


  


Reply to topic

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests

 
Post #513561  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 7375

john1 wrote:
DHD wrote:

The Ref saw both challenges. He gave nothing for Vardy's and a yellow for Nketiah's. VAR than chose to get involved and Nketiah's was eventually elevated to Serious Foul Play - red card and a 3-match ban - because whilst there was no injury, it was a potentially dangerous tackle.

I would suggest there's clear a argument that Vardy's was much more serious foul play. The more I see those few frames, the clearer Vardy's intent becomes and the worse it looks. It was a downright vicious assault. What might have been the outcome if VAR had replayed it 50 times in the slowest of motion from every conceivable angle?

It wasn't a POTENTIALLY dangerous tackle - it WAS dangerous. His challenge resulted in an actual injury that could have been much worse than it was.


Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513562  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

dec wrote:
john1 wrote:

Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

When VAR was bought in I thought the tag line was for it to correct clear and obvious errors. It obviously has done that many times and everyone is pretty happy with that - a case in point would be Aubameyang's goal at Man U which was at least 4 yards onside being over turn. But as you say, this constant debate over hairline offsides is nonsense. One of the first ones this season was Sterling given offside by I think it was something like 4-5cm. Great that the technology is capable but we're stil relying on a human to stop the tape at the exact moment the ball was played. The foot is in contact with the ball for more than a nano-second so it is impossible to judge. On that Sterling goal they worked out that if you worked out the time delay between each frame of tape against the speed Sterling was running at the time and an allowance for not knowing exactly when the ball has left the assisters foot there was a huge margin for error which could have easily meant Sterling was actually onside by a foot rather than offside by a few cm. And that's just offside.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513563  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:29 pm
Posts: 4370

I think its imperative we have some form of European football next season.
Europa it looks like is our best bet.
For 'prestige ' for finance reasons and a chance for the whole squad to get games and a back door route to get into the champions league.
Suffice to say not happy to see f####king sheff utd just get a late winner v wolves.
A draw in that game would have been a better result for us.
A win yesterday would have put us above wolves on goal difference but still within touching distance 2 points behind them.
6th is definitely a possibility where wolves lie now.
We need to get something against spurs and liverpool before ending with 2 winnable games v villa and Watford.
Sheff utd and wolves have tricky games to come as well.
So top 7 is possible.
Top 8 if city ban is upheld.
5th unfortunately has gone.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513564  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:29 pm
Posts: 4370

Cant forget bloody spurs either


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513565  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

Bernard wrote:
Your idea that Nelson, Willock, Smith Rowe, Nketiah and Maitland-Niles could together bring in £100m seems a reasonable estimate. However, with the squad as it is, how many can be sold? All teams need back up squad fillers and unless they can be replaced by others from the academy, Arsenal might need to keep them. Or at least some of them, even if it’s not all.

We almost certainly do need to keep them all.
I suppose if we manage to find a young player from abroad who we can buy for the same price we can sell a 'lesser' young academy talent from our squad then that's where the trades and upgrades can happen.
They're out there is you scout well and hard enough.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513566  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

I said last night I could guarantee I could find a number of examples of similar but worse tackles as Nketiah and they would not be red cards, even with VAR reviews - some might not even be reviewed.

It took less than 24 hours.....check out this from Tarkowski!
https://twitter.com/leemarkjudges/statu ... 2841219072


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513567  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 2264

Michael Oliver is ref Sunday, Paul Tierney on VAR. No Mike Dean anywhere this coming weekend.

_________________
Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down....
Jimmy Durante


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513568  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 7375

Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

When VAR was bought in I thought the tag line was for it to correct clear and obvious errors. It obviously has done that many times and everyone is pretty happy with that - a case in point would be Aubameyang's goal at Man U which was at least 4 yards onside being over turn. But as you say, this constant debate over hairline offsides is nonsense. One of the first ones this season was Sterling given offside by I think it was something like 4-5cm. Great that the technology is capable but we're stil relying on a human to stop the tape at the exact moment the ball was played. The foot is in contact with the ball for more than a nano-second so it is impossible to judge. On that Sterling goal they worked out that if you worked out the time delay between each frame of tape against the speed Sterling was running at the time and an allowance for not knowing exactly when the ball has left the assisters foot there was a huge margin for error which could have easily meant Sterling was actually onside by a foot rather than offside by a few cm. And that's just offside.

I was all for VAR and as you say, it was supposed to correct obvious errors. If an incident has to be replayed over and over in slow motion from multiple angles, then it is still guesswork. So what we have now is a pretence of fairness to forgive poor officiating and add to the circus. It's a shitshow.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513569  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:20 am
Posts: 8970

Zed wrote:
Michael Oliver is ref Sunday, Paul Tierney on VAR. No Mike Dean anywhere this coming weekend.


Is Paul related to our Kieran?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513570  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

Arsenal need to use that Tarkowski tackle last night as evidence in the Nketiah appeal they are making.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513571  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 7375

Rich wrote:
Arsenal need to use that Tarkowski tackle last night as evidence in the Nketiah appeal they are making.

Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513572  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 4517

david.d wrote:
I think its imperative we have some form of European football next season.
.


Disagree. One year with no Mid Week European games helped Klopp and Liverpool immensely a few seasons back..

_________________
"If you do not believe you can do it then you have no chance at all"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513573  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

Gunfire wrote:
david.d wrote:
I think its imperative we have some form of European football next season.
.


Disagree. One year with no Mid Week European games helped Klopp and Liverpool immensely a few seasons back..

You are right, Liverpool finished 8th with no European football and then got CL football next year with a 4th place finish and no distractions.
They balanced their summer transfer market by spending and receiving about £75m. That was mainly down to somehow getting £60m for Benteke, Ibe and Joe Allen. As much as they have bought well it is Liverpool's selling even more so that has got them where they are now


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513574  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 4910
Location: SE9

dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Arsenal need to use that Tarkowski tackle last night as evidence in the Nketiah appeal they are making.

Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

I would suggest it's a waste of time and an unnecessary distraction to even bother appealing. Although it's obviously a debatable point, there is a clear case for a red being appropriate and unfortunately for us that's what happened.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513575  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 7960

bromley gooner wrote:
dec wrote:
Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

I would suggest it's a waste of time and an unnecessary distraction to even bother appealing. Although it's obviously a debatable point, there is a clear case for a red being appropriate and unfortunately for us that's what happened.

At the time I felt the red card was harsh. But seeing it again, I can see both sides of the argument. Moreover, the huge majority of the moans about Nketiah’s sending off seems to be coming from Arsenal fans, who will mostly be biased. Unless I’m mistaken, the views of allegedly unbiased pundits or reporters seem largely to be that the dismissal was justified. Like dec, I can easily see this leading to an extension of his ban for making a frivolous appeal.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513576  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:36 pm
Posts: 2026

bromley gooner wrote:
dec wrote:
Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

I would suggest it's a waste of time and an unnecessary distraction to even bother appealing. Although it's obviously a debatable point, there is a clear case for a red being appropriate and unfortunately for us that's what happened.


I think I agree overall, we’re unlikely to overturn the decision, there could be value however in not being a soft touch. Like you might not stop the bully taking your lunch money but you make it the hardest £2.50 they’ve ever got and next time maybe they think twice. We’ve absolutely got something to complain about given the inconsistency in this decision compared to across the board, the Tarkowski tackle came in a narrow win for Burnley where they literally leapfrogged us into 7th place. High stakes for us. With the tackles per yellow card starts for and against you’ve stated before and the last last man tackles that only Luiz gets sent off for we’ve got an argument that needs to be heard based on hard statistics and just maybe referees think twice before they shaft us on the first tackle.

_________________
'At Arsenal it was always the same 8 or 9 who stayed behind after training. And I guarantee if you do that you'll become a better player'


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513577  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

We're rumoured to be after Malang Sarr, he's just left Nice on a free transfer. Left footed CB, only 21, over 100 appearances in the French Ligue 1.
As rumours go that sounds pretty believable in the current climate


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513578  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 588

Thought Ndombeles tackle was worse than Eddies. Yellow only


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513579  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

Andy Green wrote:
Thought Ndombeles tackle was worse than Eddies. Yellow only

I thought exactly the same. These forceful sliding lunges only ever get yellows though - as long as the studs aren't half way up the leg. But in terms of the force of that sort of tackle vs what Nketiah did they're incomparable. As soon as you leave your feet then you are not in control of your body or your momentum. Reminded me of the shocker that Creswell put in on Pépé at West Ham's ground this season. No mention because it is juts seen as a hard old fashioned english league tackle


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513580  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

Real Madrid have transferred Luka Jovic. Bought him for £60m, only 2 goals in 25 games, but was flying for Frankfurt the year before. I'm sure there will be other suitors but I wonder if we sold Lacazette for example that it might be worth a gamble to bring him on loan for a year considering the budget we're operating under


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513581  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 15978

Spurs failed to have a single shot on target at Bournemouth. They are really awful at the moment, we need to beat them on Sunday, no better chance.
If Arteta wanted to be really bold he could put Tierney in the left side of the back 3, have Saka at left-wing back and play a front 3 of Aubameyang/Lacazette/Pépé.
You'd have to thin Pépé comes back in the side after missing the last 2 games. No need to change Xhaka/Ceballos in the middle


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513582  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29219

During the glory days when we went years without losing to sperz in the league, I was nervous about each derby because I feared that game would end the streak.

Since then and they were beating us, often regularly so, now I'm not as nervous about the game. I still hate losing to them. You never get used to it or accept it but I'm not as nervous because we are not the same Arsenal.

_________________
"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken. Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools..." - Rudyard Kipling


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513583  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 2264

My apologies for falling asleep at the wheel for so long. :angel4:

_________________
Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down....
Jimmy Durante


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513584  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 2264

Goonie wrote:
Zed wrote:
Michael Oliver is ref Sunday, Paul Tierney on VAR. No Mike Dean anywhere this coming weekend.


Is Paul related to our Kieran?

Hee hee

_________________
Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down....
Jimmy Durante


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     [ 513584 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 12836, 12837, 12838, 12839, 12840

All times are UTC

Gooners Online - Click to see what Everyones Doing

Colour Key:  Visited Profile    Members Profile      Admin

Get Latest Post

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


Search for:

Go to Top

Powered by php BB © 1993 - 2018