Fixtures Sunday April 28th - Tottenham Hotspur - Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - 2:00 Pm

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Post #334361  Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:17 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Credit to Xhaka. Our man of the match by a country mile. Passed the ball beautifully from long distance and got stuck in.

Odd that our midfield was so ineffective if Xhaka was MOM by a country mile.

Well I couldn’t see anyone who played better than Xhaka today. In our team anyway.


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Post #334362  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:40 am 
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Seems like we got away with one yesterday, a reality check for the optimism surrounding the team. A reminder that this is still the team that finished 8th with a couple of additions. That said it was great to find a way to win the game. 2 wins from 2 was very important given the tough away fixtures we have coming up.

Such a shame Tierney had to be pulled out, his place in the back 3 gives the team such natural balance down that side.

Luiz was only fit enough for the bench and Tierney, mustafi, Mari, saliba, chambers all missing from the bunch of centre backs. The first 4 on that list I would expect to be ahead of holding and Kolasinac

It also showed the need for another central midfielder and how in these games we miss a bit of control in central midfield. Hopefully we can get someone in.


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Post #334363  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:12 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Odd that our midfield was so ineffective if Xhaka was MOM by a country mile.

Well I couldn’t see anyone who played better than Xhaka today. In our team anyway.

I thought Lacazette had a good game especially in the first half. He worked tirelessly, his link up play and touch was good and it was great to see him rewarded with a goal. I think he’s a really under appreciated player and he’s affected by our lack of midfield the most as he drops deeper to connect play.

Xhaka did have a good game but our midfield wasn’t at the races in the 2nd half frankly and all the credit for the 2nd goal needs to go to Saka who split their defence with a great pass.

Thought we missed Tierney and Maitland Niles to be honest


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Post #334364  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:23 am 
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Rich wrote:

It also showed the need for another central midfielder and how in these games we miss a bit of control in central midfield. Hopefully we can get someone in.


Yes I thought the whole game highlighted the midfield dilemma. We need a powerful midfield player who is fast and can bring energy to the midfield and transition our attacks very quickly. I don’t really see ceballos as the answer, he seems to have very good touches on the ball and sometimes has good games but we rarely win the midfield battle.


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Post #334365  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Well I couldn’t see anyone who played better than Xhaka today. In our team anyway.

I thought Lacazette had a good game especially in the first half. He worked tirelessly, his link up play and touch was good and it was great to see him rewarded with a goal. I think he’s a really under appreciated player and he’s affected by our lack of midfield the most as he drops deeper to connect play.

Xhaka did have a good game but our midfield wasn’t at the races in the 2nd half frankly and all the credit for the 2nd goal needs to go to Saka who split their defence with a great pass.

Thought we missed Tierney and Maitland Niles to be honest


Hi TG,

Our lack of creativity both individually and collectively is a glaring issue, especially against sides who park the bus. West Ham didn't park the bus but we still found it incredibly difficult to turn possession into any kind of incisive attacking play.

Against teams who drop deep you need dribblers rather than runners, because there is little space in behind, or you need midfielders with the vision and passing ability to play defence splitting balls. Ideally you need a mixture of both. Pépé was supposed to be our dribbler but his twinkling toes are still somewhat hit and miss.

When you have dribblers who can go past people it takes players out of the game and forces deep lying defences to come out, losing their shape and allowing more space in behind.

It is more and more clear that without midfield additions it will be another season of mixed fortunes.


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Post #334366  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:30 am 
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Was so relieved when Eddie put in the goal. We were not making it happen prior.

Pépé :20hospitals:

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Post #334367  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:37 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:

It also showed the need for another central midfielder and how in these games we miss a bit of control in central midfield. Hopefully we can get someone in.


Yes I thought the whole game highlighted the midfield dilemma. We need a powerful midfield player who is fast and can bring energy to the midfield and transition our attacks very quickly. I don’t really see ceballos as the answer, he seems to have very good touches on the ball and sometimes has good games but we rarely win the midfield battle.


Our central midfield is very one-paced. Ceballos seemed to have a million touches yesterday and was very neat and tidy but without really playing many penetrative passes. Xhaka played a few nice balls over the top and in behind but we need more. We need more progressive passes, too many are short, sideways or backwards.


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Post #334368  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:57 am 
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Bernard wrote:
So many people are saying we lack creativity in midfield but when we’ve signed Ceballos for another year and Willian new, why is that? They’re both creative players. Has the modern game changed?


That was a typical Moyes setup and West Ham worked hard to snuff out movement around the flanks where a lot of our attacking intent has been of late. Credit where it's due.

On our side the team looked like they've been buying a few too many tickets to their own show. Evident in the first 30 with some very lazy passing and movement. A very timely wake up call that the tempo needs to lift when required. Saw a bit of a jump start in the first 10 of the 2nd half so Arteta clearly saw the issues.


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Post #334369  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:04 am 
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Just watched the highlights. I hadn’t noticed during the game. Both of our goals were initiated by a killer pass from Saka. Almost Bergkamp like.

So, despite how it felt yesterday, there were a couple of flashes of creativity. Just far too few, although as it turned out just enough.

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Post #334370  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:15 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Odd that our midfield was so ineffective if Xhaka was MOM by a country mile.

Well I couldn’t see anyone who played better than Xhaka today. In our team anyway.

And to be fair, the way we are set up, the drive is supposed to come down the flanks. I guess we really missed Tierney and ANM yesterday. Our right flank delivers some quality moments but not sustained enough.

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Post #334371  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:16 am 
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The best thing with Saka on the first goal was the ability to firstly drift between the lines in those pockets of space but more importantly the ability to receive the pass on the half turn so he’s ready to immediately release Aubameyang in behind. I think this is one of the big things someone like Aouar would bring.

Arsenal are still at a transition point in formation. The back 3 has served us well to stop the goals leaking and becoming a threat on the counter attack but it is at the expense of dominating the midfield. Of course we ask the wing backs to tuck in and help out there but that helps in numbers rather than the dominance an extra powerful CM would give


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Post #334372  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:01 am 
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I said to manage expectations and was proven right. We won't be a fully settled squad till a few more months. If that.

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Post #334373  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:19 am 
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With my earlier post I mention Ceballos and Willian. But I didn’t mention Saka. All three played yesterday. I still question this belief that’s doing the rounds here that we’re lacking creativity in midfield. With Willian, Ceballos and Saka in the team how on earth can we lack creativity?

In my view the best midfields need balance with a mix of different types of player, rather than jam pack them with creative midfielders. It wouldn’t surprise me if a midfield four of Brady, Hudson, Hoddle and Gascoigne (a mix of arguably Arsenal and Tottenham’s most creative midfielders since I’ve been following football) would get overrun by more balanced midfields. Especially if you have an ultra-creative front two of Charlie George and Ginola in front of them.

I’ll be in a minority on this, but I still question why Willian, Ceballos and Saka won’t give us sufficient creativity for the modern game.


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Post #334374  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:54 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
With my earlier post I mention Ceballos and Willian. But I didn’t mention Saka. All three played yesterday. I still question this belief that’s doing the rounds here that we’re lacking creativity in midfield. With Willian, Ceballos and Saka in the team how on earth can we lack creativity?

In my view the best midfields need balance with a mix of different types of player, rather than jam pack them with creative midfielders. It wouldn’t surprise me if a midfield four of Brady, Hudson, Hoddle and Gascoigne (a mix of arguably Arsenal and Tottenham’s most creative midfielders since I’ve been following football) would get overrun by more balanced midfields. Especially if you have an ultra-creative front two of Charlie George and Ginola in front of them.

I’ll be in a minority on this, but I still question why Willian, Ceballos and Saka won’t give us sufficient creativity for the modern game.


Because in 24 games last season Ceballos scored no goals and got 2 assists in the premier league. Kevin De Bruyne got 13 goals and 20 assists. We aren’t asking Ceballos to mirror that but if you have aspirations of getting into the top 4 you can’t have such little output coming from the middle of the park. Everyone can see this and is aware our midfield is an issue.

Also because of a lack of decent penetrative midfielders we have to play 3 central defenders which sometimes like yesterday really give the opposition too much respect when an extra pair of hands in the middle would help.


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Post #334375  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Some very strange penalties being awarded for handball so far this season, I'm not even sure I know what the rules are any more. But if the standard being applied so far in the league is the standard going forward then if I were Arteta I would be telling players to literally kick the ball at the opponents arms anywhere in the box. The rule needs to change,or the interpretation of it but at the moment you can win 3 points just by kicking a ball at an opponents arm. Get on it Arsenal


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Post #334376  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:15 pm 
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So many goals being scored in the prem. I would agree that the prem might be the best league in Europe for entertainment, and potentially for competitiveness, as in much more upsets in games. But with the standard of defending I don't think it is the highest quality league. Much of the entertainment stems from awful defending as much as it does the fast pace and refs letting things go.


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Post #334377  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:18 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
With my earlier post I mention Ceballos and Willian. But I didn’t mention Saka. All three played yesterday. I still question this belief that’s doing the rounds here that we’re lacking creativity in midfield. With Willian, Ceballos and Saka in the team how on earth can we lack creativity?

In my view the best midfields need balance with a mix of different types of player, rather than jam pack them with creative midfielders. It wouldn’t surprise me if a midfield four of Brady, Hudson, Hoddle and Gascoigne (a mix of arguably Arsenal and Tottenham’s most creative midfielders since I’ve been following football) would get overrun by more balanced midfields. Especially if you have an ultra-creative front two of Charlie George and Ginola in front of them.

I’ll be in a minority on this, but I still question why Willian, Ceballos and Saka won’t give us sufficient creativity for the modern game.


Because in 24 games last season Ceballos scored no goals and got 2 assists in the premier league. Kevin De Bruyne got 13 goals and 20 assists. We aren’t asking Ceballos to mirror that but if you have aspirations of getting into the top 4 you can’t have such little output coming from the middle of the park. Everyone can see this and is aware our midfield is an issue.

Also because of a lack of decent penetrative midfielders we have to play 3 central defenders which sometimes like yesterday really give the opposition too much respect when an extra pair of hands in the middle would help.

Ceballos showed what a fine player he was towards the end of the season when he really came into his own. Sorry I think you’re making a fuss over very little. With Ceballos, Willian and Saka I feel we should have enough creativity in midfield.


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Post #334378  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:27 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I said to manage expectations and was proven right. We won't be a fully settled squad till a few more months. If that.

Like an Oracle eh? Almost omniscient. :icon_question1:

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Post #334379  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:32 pm 
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Henry McGhee: You aren't saying he's omnipotent? (Regarding Jackie Wright as a Guru)
Fred Scuttle: Er...ah..you'll have to ask his wife, sir.

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Post #334380  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:35 pm 
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I forgot we were playing away to Leicester in the League Cup on wednesday night. It will be interesting to see what the team is. I'd expect any first teamers who need some minutes to be playing, so Cédric, Pépé, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah. Macey in goal? Will we see Özil or Saliba?


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Post #334381  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:37 pm 
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Lamptey at Brighton is some player. Tearing Newcastle apart this half from right back. Wonder why chelsea let him go permanently?


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Post #334382  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:52 pm 
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Sperz off to a quick start. Son has been underrated. If he was as effective for a bigger club he'd be much more highly regarded. And I'll throw this out there. If he weren't Asian. A region not known for producing top footballers. People think he's a fine player. But you never hear his name mentioned among the PL's best.

I always worry when he's on the pitch against us. I also wonder why he hasn't attracted the attention of big clubs.

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Post #334383  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:42 pm 
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It will be interesting to see what kind of side we put out at Leicester. I'm not expecting a win actually. I've never seen us win the league cup. It would be nice just so I can see it done by us everyone else it seems has seen it in their lifetimes.

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Post #334384  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:19 pm 
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Christianson just rugby tackles Mané when Mané would have been through on the GK, was given a yellow but upgraded to a red by VAR - ref reviewing the pitchside monitor. Absolutely correct decision for me.


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Post #334385  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
Brighton number 8 sent off. Vardy on Mustafi last season should have been a red as well.

Consistency is not always a good thing though. Otherwise Gabriel would have conceded a penalty for handball.

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Post #334386  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:53 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
I said to manage expectations and was proven right. We won't be a fully settled squad till a few more months. If that.

Like an Oracle eh? Almost omniscient. :icon_question1:

How does he do it?

Pity poor sods like me who didn't manage expectations and were lulled into thinking we'd win both of our opening matches!

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Post #334387  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:29 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Like an Oracle eh? Almost omniscient. :icon_question1:

How does he do it?

Pity poor sods like me who didn't manage expectations and were lulled into thinking we'd win both of our opening matches!

:42laughter:

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Post #334388  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:15 pm 
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Good result yesterday, but poor performance - still lots of question mark regarding our ability to control games against weaker opposition. A few additions might help, but I think we also need to find ways as a tram to break these sides down. The team we put out yesterday should've been able to produce much more going forward.

The squad is very unbalanced at the moment, with too many defenders and not enough midfielders. I don't mind Elneny as a squad option, but he's too close to the starting eleven right now. Say we sign Aouar and Partey - that would make Elneny slot in a more natural squad position considering his quality.


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Post #334389  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:13 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Lamptey at Brighton is some player. Tearing Newcastle apart this half from right back. Wonder why chelsea let him go permanently?


He wouldn’t sign a new deal as they had Daniel James in front of him, so they let him go. I watched him play and thought please learn the lessons from Bellerin and do the work now to stave off a serious knee injury as he’s all-action and rapid! Brighton look so well balanced as a team, we’ve got arguably better game breakers, but no way near as well balanced. Leicester too, they look like a mini Man City, Harvey Barnes really eye catching player.


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Post #334390  Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:19 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Sperz off to a quick start. Son has been underrated. If he was as effective for a bigger club he'd be much more highly regarded. And I'll throw this out there. If he weren't Asian. A region not known for producing top footballers. People think he's a fine player. But you never hear his name mentioned among the PL's best.

I always worry when he's on the pitch against us. I also wonder why he hasn't attracted the attention of big clubs.


If RM is looking for the next Ronaldo in terms of merchandising and advertising revenue, Son could well be that player. Potentially the next Nakata.


He’s a great player. He should buy that Southampton defence a drink though, I hope they play that high line against Aubameyang! I think Hassenhutl has got them watching Bayern Munich tapes but not told them they aren’t actually the European Champions!


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Post #334391  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:12 am 
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Goonie wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Sperz off to a quick start. Son has been underrated. If he was as effective for a bigger club he'd be much more highly regarded. And I'll throw this out there. If he weren't Asian. A region not known for producing top footballers. People think he's a fine player. But you never hear his name mentioned among the PL's best.

I always worry when he's on the pitch against us. I also wonder why he hasn't attracted the attention of big clubs.


If RM is looking for the next Ronaldo in terms of merchandising and advertising revenue, Son could well be that player. Potentially the next Nakata.


Let's be honest. RM didn't buy Becks for his talent alone. They knew they would recoup the money spent on merchandizing.
Park made a lot of money for Man Utd with shirt sales...a lot! Koreans around the world bought a ton of them. LA has the largest Korean American community in America and Park's shirt seemed like a requirement.

Also, many Koreans made the trek to OT to see matches. The club always make sure they were able to. I know a guy who went with his girlfriend.

The MLB has a few Korean players and they make money for their teams as well.

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Post #334392  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:53 am 
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Salah is huge in the middle east. I was on lockdown in Dubai for Covid 19 and Salah's face is on a lot of advertising. LFC has a few stores. I asked someone about Elneny and they were like 'meh'.

City has a following but not as big as one may think because of politics. Qatar not as liked in the area these days. Salah is huge though, very, very huge.

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Post #334393  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:12 am 
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Goonie wrote:
Ash wrote:

He’s a great player. He should buy that Southampton defence a drink though, I hope they play that high line against Aubameyang! I think Hassenhutl has got them watching Bayern Munich tapes but not told them they aren’t actually the European Champions!


Before Son scored to make it 2-1, Southampton had a great chance themselves. They played quite well in the first half in fact.

Nevertheless, Spurs may be a handful this season :20hospitals:

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Post #334394  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:28 am 
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Decaf wrote:
Goonie wrote:

Before Son scored to make it 2-1, Southampton had a great chance themselves. They played quite well in the first half in fact.

Nevertheless, Spurs may be a handful this season :20hospitals:

Is that the same handful Mourinho has when he looks at himself in the mirror?

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Post #334395  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:21 pm 
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Palace make a £19m bid with £6m add ons for Liverpool's Rhian Brewster. What is it with prem clubs that they want to chuck tonnes of money at Liverpool youngsters or reserves. Palace already paid Liverpool £60m for Benteke and Sakho, you'd have thought they'd have learnt their lesson


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Post #334396  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:30 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
If RM is looking for the next Ronaldo in terms of merchandising and advertising revenue, Son could well be that player. Potentially the next Nakata.

I'm amazed Madrid, Barca, PSG haven't made a move for Son over the past few years. I rate him far higher than Kane. He has amazing pace, great finishing and can play in a number of positions. I'm also surprised City or Man U haven't made a move for him as well. I'd put him in the top 10 players in the prem easily


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Post #334397  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Apparently Chelsea are looking at Guendouzi and Arsenal might be exploring the possibility of a swap deal. Supposedly immediately rebuffed when asking for Kante. Hudson-Odoi and Rubens Loftus-Cheek mentioned.
Both are interesting players who would meet home grown quotas and fit a profile of a more athletic, physical and pacey player. Hudson-Odoi was being chased by Bayern 12 months ago. Right wing isn't really a position we need to recruit in though. Loftus-Cheek, a player who's career is stagnating, but has plenty of talent.

I'd rather take straight cash for Guendouzi but perhaps there is a swap with cash that can be done?


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Post #334398  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Goonie wrote:

Before Son scored to make it 2-1, Southampton had a great chance themselves. They played quite well in the first half in fact.

Nevertheless, Spurs may be a handful this season :20hospitals:

A front 3 of Bale, Son, Kane is very good. Especially against team naive enough to play a high line and let Kane drop deep and feed acres of space for the other two to run on to. However, the rest of the team is nowhere near top 4 quality.


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Post #334399  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:40 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Apparently Chelsea are looking at Guendouzi and Arsenal might be exploring the possibility of a swap deal. Supposedly immediately rebuffed when asking for Kante. Hudson-Odoi and Rubens Loftus-Cheek mentioned.
Both are interesting players who would meet home grown quotas and fit a profile of a more athletic, physical and pacey player. Hudson-Odoi was being chased by Bayern 12 months ago. Right wing isn't really a position we need to recruit in though. Loftus-Cheek, a player who's career is stagnating, but has plenty of talent.

I'd rather take straight cash for Guendouzi but perhaps there is a swap with cash that can be done?

Time to bring Giroud home.

It won’t be Hudson surely, overloaded on both flanks the last position we need. Loftus-Cheek probably the only logical option from that list


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Post #334400  Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:52 pm 
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Liverpool (and City) are at the level they are Barca or RM esque in that just to get on their books you are among the best in your age group.

I imagine that the thinking is that they have players on their books who are first team prem quality or on the cusp of but they are not going to move Mané, van Dijk, or Salah out the way.

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