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Post #505281  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:02 am 
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I viewed only to see how we were mentioned.


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Post #505282  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:04 am 
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Martinez and Leno are roughly the same age, Leno is the more highly regarded. He's going to expect his starting position back. I wonder if Arteta can keep both of them happy? Would Martinez be satisfied with cups and if there is a fixture congestion, or matches too close together then he starts?

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Post #505283  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:12 am 
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I read Emery has made a formil bid for Guendouzi. I can't see him staying. He knows Emery and its got to be a serious vote of confidence to get a bid. Its just a question of how much now, if reports are true.

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Post #505284  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:43 am 
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I can understand the sentiments of Chelsea fans.
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/08/10/d ... his-tweet/

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Post #505285  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:25 pm 
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Sky saying 2 clubs are in for AMN 2 from the premiership including Tottenham :8surprise: and one from the bundesliga


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Post #505286  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:22 pm 
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One of the best things to happen for The Arsenal was Newcastle not being bought by the prince of Saudi Arabia. Had that happened in about 2 or more years, they would be top 6 and eventually top 4. He has the money to do it. And just like Chelsea and City, after an initial start buying willy nilly, they would eventually get the right combination of manager and quality players and win titles. That kind of money rarely doesn't win eventually. Had that happen it would have made it one more big hurdle to get back to top 6 and eventually top 4. (I'm sure Sunderland are happy as well. Although not in the same league they would hate tot see their fiercest rivals as title winners).

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Post #505287  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:53 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Sky saying 2 clubs are in for AMN 2 from the premiership including Tottenham :8surprise: and one from the bundesliga

Really don’t want to see him go....but he must be at peak value right now. If a few clubs are in for him then that increases the price. Look at what prices clubs put on talented young English players currently. Max Arrons for example at Norwich, £25-30m. We should be pushing AMN price north of that, don’t like the idea of him going to spurs.


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Post #505288  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:16 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Rich wrote:
So, if you could only keep 1 and sell the other which way round is it? I think Martinez might count as a home grown player as well, is a year younger, on lower wages and Leno may be the one that attracts the higher transfer fee. In an ideal world you find a way to keep them both but when there are gaping holes in the rest of your squad it doesn't make sense to have a £30m+ GK sitting on the bench when that money could plug a hole in defence or central midfield.

I know I made a post not long ago about how we maybe should be looking to sell Martinez in the summer if a big bid comes in, but he's made the decision more difficult with each game he's played. I do agree it's probably not possible to keep them both on for much longer, but it won't be easy to choose between them.

Martinez looks more assured on crosses and corners, although I think Leno isn't as bad as suggested in this area. Leno is better 1v1 and have better reflexes. I like the way Martinez often manages to hold on to the ball when making saves, not leaving any rebounds. And then there's the experience bit; as impressive as Martinez has been, it's still a run of about 10 games, whereas Leno has been a starting keeper at the top level for nine years.

Not an easy decision, and I guess some of it depends on Leno's injury, but seeing as we need to strengthen the squad a bit and aren't flush with cash, it might be poor asset management to hold on to both of them.


Hi Haz,

If Martinez's form is indicative of what he will produce for the remainder of his career then I would suggest he is the more rounded keeper, more commanding, better on crosses, better with the ball at his feet and prefers to catch/hold rather than punch/parry, which is a quality many keepers have lost as the balls have changed over the years.

You might argue that if Arteta want's to continue to play out from the back (City style) then Martinez's superiority with the ball at his feet is a crucial factor.

Of course we are yet to see how Martinez copes with a hostile crowd but that is probably months away at best.

Big decision but you are right that a club supposedly short on funds can't really justify a back-up keeper of either Leno's or Martinez's quality.


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Post #505289  Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:53 pm 
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I think too much negativity is being made of Leno’s distribution, which in my view is pretty damn good. I also agree with Hazuki’s comments on Leno with crosses. I realise he gave Chelsea their winner at the Emirates but I think Leno is way better on crosses than some have given him credit for. Leno’s shot stopping is quite remarkable so if we do have to sell either Leno or Martinez, as Hazuki also implied it is a very close call and a hugely difficult decision.

With Leno’s injury hopefully it won’t be a decision that has to be made this window either.


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Post #505290  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:37 am 
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Goonie wrote:
Another plus point for Emi Martinez is he's considered as HG. He's been very good so far and I think we can afford to keep both for another season at least to see whether EM can maintain his form or do a Manninger.

Actually that’s a very good point you make about Manninger’s start. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn’t Almunia start off brightly? I might be wrong, but there’s something in the back of my mind that he looked really good at first.

EDIT: Damn, here I am again talking the general issue of keeping or selling players. The only point I’ll make is that with Stan as the owner we might as well sell both Martinez and Leno and replace them with the worst keeper in the Barnet Sunday League for all the difference it’ll make. Imagine a smiley here!


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Post #505291  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:51 am 
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I read we 'only' have 30 million to play with. Aubameyang is signing, Willian is presumably a done deal. I'm reading Coutinho is close to happening. The only way I an see this happening is we sell Lacazette, Torreira and Özil. Which is definitely within the realm of possibility. And I'd guess AMN and others as well. The aforementioned players presumably will collectively bring in a fair amount of money.

I would love to get Partey. I'd rather have Partey than Coutinho based on need not individual talent. I can't see Coutinho partnering with Xhaka who is a starter. We will be exposed in the middle of the pitch defensively and for pace.

It does make one salivate to think of Coutinho having choices between Willian, Aubameyang and Pépé. But only if we have Partey or such similar type behind him as well as Saliba with a reliable partner.

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Post #505292  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:08 am 
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...forgot about Guendouzi probable sale as well. I'm also thinking, do we need both Ceballos and Coutinho? If so, Ceballos off the bench but will he go for that? Can both play in the same midfield? Only if Partey is part of it in a 4-3-3 with Aubameyang, Willian and Pépé up top is my guess.

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Post #505293  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Another plus point for Emi Martinez is he's considered as HG. He's been very good so far and I think we can afford to keep both for another season at least to see whether EM can maintain his form or do a Manninger.

Actually that’s a very good point you make about Manninger’s start. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn’t Almunia start off brightly? I might be wrong, but there’s something in the back of my mind that he looked really good at first.

EDIT: Damn, here I am again talking the general issue of keeping or selling players. The only point I’ll make is that with Stan as the owner we might as well sell both Martinez and Leno and replace them with the worst keeper in the Barnet Sunday League for all the difference it’ll make. Imagine a smiley here!


Your tongue in cheek edit surely highlights where your owner blame goes too far. Put me between the sticks and 95% of shots on our goal go in and we get relegated. How does that make less difference than who owns the club. You’re right in that the ownership affects the club negatively, but I think you take it too far. If we signed the 11 best players in world football Stan couldn’t stop us winning things.


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Post #505294  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:39 am 
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Ash wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Actually that’s a very good point you make about Manninger’s start. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn’t Almunia start off brightly? I might be wrong, but there’s something in the back of my mind that he looked really good at first.

EDIT: Damn, here I am again talking the general issue of keeping or selling players. The only point I’ll make is that with Stan as the owner we might as well sell both Martinez and Leno and replace them with the worst keeper in the Barnet Sunday League for all the difference it’ll make. Imagine a smiley here!

Your tongue in cheek edit surely highlights where your owner blame goes too far. Put me between the sticks and 95% of shots on our goal go in and we get relegated. How does that make less difference than who owns the club. You’re right in that the ownership affects the club negatively, but I think you take it too far. If we signed the 11 best players in world football Stan couldn’t stop us winning things.

With the smiley reference I was expecting everyone, including you, to realise that I wasn’t actually being serious with the comment about the Barnet Sunday League keeper. My tongue was so far in my cheek that with the smiley reference I’m stunned you couldn’t work that out. However, at a level appropriate to Arsenal’s sort of level with players, I don’t think who we sign or sell is as important as Stan’s ownership so I don’t accept I’m going too far about it.


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Post #505295  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:24 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...forgot about Guendouzi probable sale as well. I'm also thinking, do we need both Ceballos and Coutinho? If so, Ceballos off the bench but will he go for that? Can both play in the same midfield? Only if Partey is part of it in a 4-3-3 with Aubameyang, Willian and Pépé up top is my guess.

With Ceballos playing the deeper role I think him and Coutinho can play in the same midfield, my bigger concern is whether that is the midfield we want/need right now. I get that Coutinho brings creativity, but are we going to be a team that tries to play with a No.10 who doesn't have much actual central midfield responsibility? That won't work in this league.
More and more teams are ditching the classic No.10 as they tend not to work hard enough defensively, or the best 10's in the world who do work hard enough become more like No.8's (Like De Bruyne) and the team end up playing a 4-1-2-3 with the 2 being 2 players like De Bruyne if they are lucky enough to have them.
This is a move away from the 3 midfielders being categorised as defensive, box-to-box and attacking and expects a more all round midfielder in all 3 positions.
The notional defensive mid is now a deep lying play maker, taking the balls of CB, dropping in to defence if the CB split, supreme positionally and very good one touch. The 2 in front of him can drop deeper to link play but mostly move the ball from front to back with quick incisive passing or dribbling to beat the press, they also get up and support the attack and chip in with 10 goals a season.
If we want a midfield like that then none of our current players are good enough, and Willian and Coutinho probably aren't either.


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Post #505296  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:03 pm 
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Those two in midfield would be fine if we are playing a team where we expect to retain the lions share of possession but I think we'd be overrun against LFC, City and possibly one of the others.

It would be work well in most European matches as well.

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Post #505297  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:13 pm 
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Has Coutinho ever played as one of two central midfielders? If we're genuinely interested in him, I can't imagine Arteta playing him as anything other than the most attacking of three central midfielders, or on the left wing. Wouldn't be surprised to see Willian used centrally in that manner, with two more all-around midfielders behind him.


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Post #505298  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:21 pm 
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...another thing as well Rich, Xhaka is a starter. Arteta and before him Emery shockingly enough rates him to start (I know....I know ..lol). It's likely to be a Coutinho/Xhaka partnership. I'm not too confident of us defensively in the middle of the pitch. Coutinho reads the game well but I'd prefer him to have a ball winning DM as a partner, hence why I think getting Partey is paramount.

I'm surprised at all the rumors frankly. It seemed like it was going to be a quiet transfer period.

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Post #505299  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:23 pm 
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The Daily Mirror, naming the Evening Standard as their source, are reporting that Willian has already had his medical with Arsenal ahead of signing a three year deal worth £150k a week. For a player who is already 32, that sounds a big financial risk as it equates to a firm commitment of £23.4m (£150k x 52 = £7.8m x 3 = £23.4m).

Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360


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Post #505300  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360

Think this one is pretty much done. The money involved in the deal is quite significant for a 32-year old but I think one of the main things is that there is no transfer fee. So even if the total amount will be somewhere around 20-25 million, it will possibly not affect our transfer budget at all. We have a few position in need of strengthening, and it doesn't seem like we can afford to spend big on all of them, so this type of deal is probably a necessity sadly. Let's just hope he can keep up his form, he was excellent for Chelsea this season.


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Post #505301  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:34 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360

Think this one is pretty much done. The money involved in the deal is quite significant for a 32-year old but I think one of the main things is that there is no transfer fee. So even if the total amount will be somewhere around 20-25 million, it will possibly not affect our transfer budget at all. We have a few position in need of strengthening, and it doesn't seem like we can afford to spend big on all of them, so this type of deal is probably a necessity sadly. Let's just hope he can keep up his form, he was excellent for Chelsea this season.

I think Arteta will use him wisely and he should add some quality.


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Post #505302  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:07 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...another thing as well Rich, Xhaka is a starter. Arteta and before him Emery shockingly enough rates him to start (I know....I know ..lol). It's likely to be a Coutinho/Xhaka partnership. I'm not too confident of us defensively in the middle of the pitch. Coutinho reads the game well but I'd prefer him to have a ball winning DM as a partner, hence why I think getting Partey is paramount.

I'm surprised at all the rumors frankly. It seemed like it was going to be a quiet transfer period.

I can't see Coutinho (if he came) sitting in a midfield 2 with Xhaka! I can't see Coutinho starting in a 2 man midfield even with a reincarnation of Vieira+Keane combined! He's played all his career as a No.10 or off the left side. I agree Arteta sees Xhaka as an important player and he'll be a starter next year. Coutinho and Willian will both play much higher up the pitch.
I've said before, long term I think Arteta wants to play 1 holding player and 2 x No.8 types - much like Pep does at City. I also think Arteta wants (and needs eventually) to play a back 4. At the moment he doesn't have the players for any of that so must find a system that works whilst slowly building the team he wants for the formation he wants


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Post #505303  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Arteta won't get all the players he needs obviously. He'll see who he ends up with and try and make something out of it. My guess is he'll experiment with different formations based on who he has available as well as the competition. Problem with that is, the players have to keep learning. He may just stick with one system whether we have the players to maximise it or not and do what we can. That way, the players know the system even if they aren't able to be effective at times due to quality.

If he had his way, we'd look a bit more like City but that's a pipe dream right now and probably for the forseeable future.

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Post #505304  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:52 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
I think Arteta will use him wisely and he should add some quality.

Yeah I hope so. I really do rate Willian highly as a player, in fact I think he's been one of Chelsea's most underrated players for a couple of years now. His age is a concern though, but as long as he's motivated he should have a couple of good seasons left in him. One thing to note is that he worked under five different managers during his time at Chelsea (not counting Steve Holland) and they all seemed quite happy with him looking at his number of appearances. The number of matches he's played also suggest he's quite durable, though I'm sure we'll find to make him tear his ACL after a couple of games.


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Post #505305  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm 
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So Stan the Man is going to do a bit of time along with many other colleagues in court on October 25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltod ... 9.amp.html

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Post #505306  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:46 am 
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He screws over his own home town and people may wonder why I have always said you don't want him as an owner.

He was never going to stay in St. Louis. The city jumped spent money trying to accommodate his demands, spending a considerable amount of money from a city that is struggling economically. Then he leaves. Knowing he was leaving all along. They could have used that time and resources in attracting a team.

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Post #505307  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:18 am 
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The rise and fall of Ronaldinho. I had a Brazilian coworker years ago and he would say that Brazilian footballers often end up broke. He said it was primarily because many grew up in the favelas with no idea of money management and spend big, don't save, are often easy to convince to enter into dodgy deals.

I saw the same often with American athletes. At one time (not sure if the stats are the same) but about 70% of NBA and NFL athletes were broke within 5 years of retirement.

Football is a sport of the masses globally. I don't know if the British players who grew up in council estates in east London, or Toxteth, Liverpool suffer the same faith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PoXhGOkh2A

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Post #505308  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:32 am 
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Seems Juve are open to sending a player our way in a deal for Lacazette, I have no idea if the CB is good or not but we need CBs not more attackers.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... l-22506059

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Post #505309  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:10 am 
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Bernard wrote:
The Daily Mirror, naming the Evening Standard as their source, are reporting that Willian has already had his medical with Arsenal ahead of signing a three year deal worth £150k a week. For a player who is already 32, that sounds a big financial risk as it equates to a firm commitment of £23.4m (£150k x 52 = £7.8m x 3 = £23.4m).

Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360


Hi Bernard,

I thought I read somewhere he is getting a £10m signing on fee. Whether that's true I don't know.


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Post #505310  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:23 am 
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Lets for a moment assume Lacazette is gone. Willilan is here, where does he play? Does Aubameyang go central up top and Willian plays left and Pépé on the right?

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Post #505311  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:39 am 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
The Daily Mirror, naming the Evening Standard as their source, are reporting that Willian has already had his medical with Arsenal ahead of signing a three year deal worth £150k a week. For a player who is already 32, that sounds a big financial risk as it equates to a firm commitment of £23.4m (£150k x 52 = £7.8m x 3 = £23.4m).

Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360

Hi Bernard,

I thought I read somewhere he is getting a £10m signing on fee. Whether that's true I don't know.

Morning socrates. If it is true about the £10m signing on fee and he does get £150k a week for three years, that makes it a £33.4m investment. For somebody who is now 32, and as I said that inevitably means already past his best (a best he’ll leave further behind as the three year contract progresses), that represents a very heavy commitment on a player of his age with therefore little, or more likely no resale value in the transfer market.


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Post #505312  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:41 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Morning socrates. If it is true about the £10m signing on fee and he does get £150k a week for three years, that makes it a £33.4m investment.

I think he'll be on a three-year contract worth £100,000-a-week.


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Post #505313  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:22 am 
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warrior wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Morning socrates. If it is true about the £10m signing on fee and he does get £150k a week for three years, that makes it a £33.4m investment.

I think he'll be on a three-year contract worth £100,000-a-week.

All I went by was the Mirror and Standard’s claim that he’ll be on £150k a week. If he is and what socrates heard about him getting a £10m signing on fee is right, that makes it a £33.4m investment on a player who has already had his 32nd birthday.


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Post #505314  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:41 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
I think Arteta will use him wisely and he should add some quality.

Yeah I hope so. I really do rate Willian highly as a player, in fact I think he's been one of Chelsea's most underrated players for a couple of years now. His age is a concern though, but as long as he's motivated he should have a couple of good seasons left in him. One thing to note is that he worked under five different managers during his time at Chelsea (not counting Steve Holland) and they all seemed quite happy with him looking at his number of appearances. The number of matches he's played also suggest he's quite durable, though I'm sure we'll find to make him tear his ACL after a couple of games.

I think we do need to consider the injury history, general fitness and whether a player is showing signs of 'slowing down' rather than the age necessarily. I am not completely sold on spending what we're spending on Willian, but I think you'd struggle to find anyone in the world who can give us what he will on a lets say £10m signing on fee and £100k a week. Ryan Fraser would cost pretty much the same!
The issue for me is of balancing our ins and outs. We cant afford to spend lots of money on all our problem positions, equally we can't afford for all the areas we need signings to be teenagers with lots of potential and sell on value. If the balance is to buy older experienced players like Willian which allows us to buy younger more expensive players to fill CM and CB then it seems a sensible strategy.
The plan should be to improve the team year on year, we can't get to where we want to be in 1 transfer window but equally can't only add the pieces we really want for the long term as it would still leave gaps elsewhere in the squad.
If we judge transfers before a player kicks a ball then I feel we can only judge this one at the end of the transfer window.


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Post #505315  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:09 pm 
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Juventus to offer THREE different players for Arsenal ace as Reds eye shock Chelsea transfer

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/p ... 7cd469f3dc


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Post #505316  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:10 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
All I went by was the Mirror and Standard’s claim that he’ll be on £150k a week. If he is and what socrates heard about him getting a £10m signing on fee is right, that makes it a £33.4m investment on a player who has already had his 32nd birthday.

Yeah I think it's 100 - and an optional 4th year.


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Post #505317  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:15 pm 
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Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes



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Post #505318  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:30 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Bernard wrote:
All I went by was the Mirror and Standard’s claim that he’ll be on £150k a week. If he is and what socrates heard about him getting a £10m signing on fee is right, that makes it a £33.4m investment on a player who has already had his 32nd birthday.

Yeah I think it's 100 - and an optional 4th year.

The Mirror mentioned the optional fourth year but if it’s the club’s option would they take it up as he’ll the 35 then? Would he have left Chelsea for £100k at Arsenal, just for one more year? Chelsea must be very high payers.


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Post #505319  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:33 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes


Make it happen, Mikel! I loved this guy's work with Michael Prackson.

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Post #505320  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:42 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
warrior wrote:
Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes


Make it happen, Mikel! I loved this guy's work with Michael Prackson.

:happy11: :happy11: :happy11:

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