All those years in the champions league

How the *%^@ did Wenger not get to more finals and semis

Also what ever happened to a side winning the champions league having won and been the best team in each tie.
Each semi finalist had huge flaws in their semi to either go down by so much or get beaten on a big comeback.

I can’t stand the thought of that champions league final. I’ll be cheering Liverpool on for sure. Absolutely terrible.

This may sound bitter but I think of the rotten luck alongside the rotten performances we’ve had in the champions league and see the luck spurs have had on this run. I mean if Barca don’t play a B team in the group spurs are out at that stage

Because we spewed it or came up against Barca or BM in top form. We should have beaten Liverpool in the quarter final at Anfield and should not have lost to the Chavs

One thing to be admired in both spurs and Liverpool is how some relatively average squad players have come in and done the business when the best we’re injured. Llorente, moura, Origi, Shaqiri- all big parts to play in each semi and none of whom are first choice

Because he was tactically inept and was somewhat hamstrung by scrooge Kroenke so always 2-3 players short of a really good squad that could cope better with multiple competitions.

Spurs seem to be having similar luck to the luck Chelsea had when they won it, ironic we used to be called 'lucky Arsenal' because I'd say if anything we're the opposite, these days at least.

Hopefully Liverpool win it but honestly I just feel numb these days, we're on a road to nowhere under Kroenke and watching rival clubs battle for the top prizes is just a total turn off.

Reminds me I need to cancel BT sport..

And should have beaten Monaco, and not spewed up a 4-0 defeat to Ac Milan.....and done much better in the early years when teams like Valencia and fiorentina put us out

It's what great teams do Rich. You can look at imperfections like replacing Tottenham player x with a player from club z. But Pochetinno appears to have changed the DNA of Tottenham this season. Make no mistake, Tottenham have a very real chance of winning the final in a one off game.

Request to Rog. I don't like anyone being permanently banned from the forum. But can you at least ban American from making predictions? Arsenal looked in with a great chance of a top four place until his gross over-confidence about getting it. He practically guaranteed Tottenham won't win the Champions League, even wanting them to reach the semi-final by beating arguably the best team in it (City), which of course they did.

His predictions are poison for Arsenal and it's fans.

Luck plays a huge part. Ferguson for all his greatness was unbelievably lucky to win his two CLs and he had great teams. Liverpool and Chelsea won it with average sides. Our 2006 team was mlies away from Wenger's best yet nearly won the thing. There's no legislating for luck. PSG actually looked the best side on this year's competition but got done by an absurd late peno.

Tottenham are not a "great team", Bernard. Not even close. They have been crazy lucky. Liverpool are a totally different story. They are a very very good team.

Not necessarily ..... both Champion's league ties will show Unai and our gay boy players exactly what is required of an English team ...battle , never give up , don't f&&% around with the ball at the back .

Two splendid blueprints on how to approach a tie ... of course stuck out in the poxy little country I haven't got some knobby Spurs or Pool supporter in the workplace to wind me up ...... but in both these Euro ties I think it's better to say well done Liverpool and Tottenham and move on .

Hopefully out of the ashes of our woeful end of season form some Phoenix will arise and we will be far more competitive next year .

No Salah , Firmino and Kane and they can still put in credible performances

....while we whinge and whine " Oh we didn't have Ramsay , Bellerin or we have lost our two first choice centre halves " hence the reason why we lost to Everton , Altringham , Middlesborough Ironside or whoever " Bollocks

Yups. Wenger's sides always had that slight brittleness and lack of bottle .. we should have won more titles too.

Spurs and Liverpool don't lack fight, it must be said.

Thanks spuds for knocking out that horrible bunch. Mousers won't lose 2 finals in a row. Though I hate spuds they are the lesser of 2 evils. Well happy.

Probably best to have kept that to yourself?.

Live and work in Merseyside. Have to work with four tottenham fans. It was bad enough this morning with a scouse love in. *%^@ me I ain't going in tomorrow.

I feel sick

I knew they would score

Before Kos who was the last truly world class defender we have bought on the transfer market or developed ourselves?

And Bernard you cannot count Mert as he was on the wane when he came to us. Though the defence always seemed a bit more secure when he played with Kos.

It will be peak typical Arsenal to be the only English team to take a lead into the 2nd leg......and get knocked out

Please dont embarrass us tomorrow Arsenal.
Give US a final to look forward to.

Hate to say it but we are miles away from Liverpool and Spurs. Many many miles.
Superb managers motivating good to great players.

Its nailed on.

Spurs were fantastic that second half, Llorente just killed them. All Moura's goals were clinically taken. Unfortunately they are a top side with a top manager. Saw them play some great football in the group stage and somehow not get the result.

Liverpool though are on another level. Absolutely outstanding team. One of the best in a premier season ever.

But as Bernard says anything can happen in a final.

Should be a belter.

Not sure Emery is good enough. I know it is his first season but I don't see any leadership or charisma from him. All the best managers seem to have that indecipherable something special. But I have not seen it with Emery.

Think about Clough, Shankly, Paisley, Stein, Ferguson, GG and early Wenger. They all had charisma and leadership. Klopp has it in spades. Not sure Emery has it or will ever have it

Pochettino who has just got spurs to a European cup final had to speak through a translator for 2 years. I don’t think anyone would suggest right now he’s a bad manager.

Emery has made mistakes but my goodness he’s getting too much grief

Didn't say he was not good enough. Just not convinced yet. Does Emery have charisma? You either have it or you don't have it. It is not learned.

Mertesacker was 26 when he joined us. If you won't call him world class, I don't think you can call Koscielny world class. I firmly believe that Mertesacker turned Koscielny into the player he became. The latter's first season was ordinary to okay but wasn't great. Mertesacker arrives and Koscielny improved massively. Since Mertesacker has stopped playing through injury or retirement, Koscielny has gone back to his old self when fit. Coincidence? Maybe, but maybe not.

I think people undervalue Mertesacker's organisational abilities. World class is a term with, as far as I'm aware, no agreed definition. If winning over a hundred caps fnr one of the world's premier national teams isn't, then other maybe biased measures can come into it.

That vapourous f&*%wit Kroenke will now be thinking "well if Spurs can get to a final..".

I didn't call Tottenham a great team. But it is what great teams do. Also, I have seen sides worse than Tottenham called great.

Neither of them were world class. They did okay but the defence was never good enough to win the EPL or CL. People throw names like world class and legend when the players have never been anything than a player doing an average job at that level.

Ajax have been giant killers and fall to the likes of Tottenham.

A few things. First, its looking like the PL is becoming, if it isn't already, the best league in the world. The quality of the league seems deeper than any other. Would Barcelona dominate the PL as it does la Liga?

The future for us doesn't bode well. The league is getting better and better and we are risking mid table mediocrity.

It all comes down to ownership. We are in grave danger because Kroenke is not going to committ the resources not does he have the leadership for us to compete. Man Utd aren't going to sit idle. They are going to cut the dead weight and buy their way out of it. Chelsea's ownership aren't as committed as they were in 15 years ago but they will still spend more than we will and are more committed to trying than we are. We are going to scrap together 2nd tier players from various leagues and roll the dice to try and become top 4.

I have to wonder what the former board members, Dein, the rest are thinking now? I wonder if they could go back in a time machine, what they would change and what they would still do? I wonder if they would go with Usmanov instead if they could have? And yeah, I'll repeat it because its the truth, Dein effed up the club. Dein brought Kroenke in knowing he knew nothing about football and wanted to be the de facto head of Arsenal through a non involved owner. And then again under Usmanov who would have been more of a Roman type owner. He is ultimately to blame for our present issues. Dein more than anyone brought us to prominence and Dein more than anyone else, ruined the club he was pretty much responsible for building, with bringing in Wenger and forming that great partnership.

It's depressing. This must what it felt like for Leeds fans early 00s, on the cusp of renewing their early 70s glory years and seeing it all go down the drain.

I'll be the biggest Liverpool fan for that final but frankly, its anyone's game. I can see Tottenham winning it and it will be glad I am not an Arsenal fan in London if that happens. In the span of a decade 2 London clubs winning a CL when we haven't is going to be hard to take if Tottenham wins.

With Ramsey going, the clear out of players, Özil among them probably, and the difficulty of finding players given our budget and diminishing reputation of a big club that can't offer CL football, I don't see us improving. I don't see us improving in a league where the top six are getting stronger and the clubs behind us are getting stronger. I don't think 7th or 8th is out of the question next season.

Is there any one else better who will take the job? Fair question. I don't know. Any suggestions?

You have your own definitions for terms such as 'world class' or 'average'. But for my definitions I'd put both Mertesacker and Koscielny way above average.

American, you keep going on about Dein. He led to Kroenke being a minor shareholder. It was Fitzman, yes Danny Fitzman, who made Kroenke the majority shareholder.

somewhere in North London are some very delirious fans

when will it be us?

If we could make a deal, I'd love to get Coutinho.

https://www.givemesport.com/1474000-phi ... y3HcNGSOJs

Maybe I'm oversimplifying the business and intricacies of transfers but it just seems we suck at it. Why is Mustafi an Arsenal player as long as he is? Even at a loss (and with a 17 mil transfer which seems critical right now) we'd have been much better off exchanging him for the best or one of the best conference defenders. Even a few lower table sides. There aren't many defenders I've seen worse than him.

The minute we knew we didn't want Ramsey anymore we should have been lining up someone of quality, take the hit financially if we had to than to let him go right now in the way we are.

We seem to hang on too long to players that it's clear aren't going to work out.

Amazing that both spurs and Liverpool were 1 kick from being knocked out in the group stage.
Liverpool beat Napoli at home but napoli has an amazing chance at the death that Alison saved which would have knocked them out. Liverpool lost all 3 awayganes in the group.
Spurs needed to win their 4th group game to stay in, Kane scored a 89th minute winner, they then got an 80th minute winner in their next game and due to the luck of the fixture calendar got to play a Barcelona B team and equalised in the 85th minute to go through on away goals in the head to head with Inter.

Great teams no doubt, but there have been plenty of moments that were totally out of their control where they got lucky. All cup runs need luck

Well I wanted him gone and I would rather someone try to rebuild the wreckage your hero left, than have Wenger run the club further into the ground by purchasing overrated and ineffectual players for silly sums, agree to pay Özil 350k, and have a socialist wage system that means we cannot offload many of our passengers.

Would I go back to Wenger? I have a colonoscopy every couple of years for health reason - I would prefer that than have Wenger back.

True, but we made our own luck. Sadly, the bad one.

For too many seasons, we have had opportunities to make things happen for ourselves. But, we decided to stroll through a game, thinking we will waltz a win. But, too many times, it did not end well for us. We have too many players who think they can play with panache. And when they lose the ball, their panic leads to disastrous response.

Seriously?
Even if Barca took a 50% hit on what they bought him for he’d be twice our summer budget.
Liverpool struck absolute gold when they sold him, a perfect storm of Barca feeling slighted at losing Neymar and needing to make a statement, they probably watched a YouTube clip of Coutinho’s long range wonder strikes and bought him - forgetting the multiple shots he has that end up in row z or kill promising attacks.
Absolutely no way should we be signing Coutinho