What a shambolic response ...

" Listen to what Charlie George said about Mee " are you serious , that's a valid point ...... ?

That'd be like asking Joseph Stalin what he thought about Hitler .... a red herring

" Mancini saved us from relegation " I didn't say that ... I said "he helped " ... off the field you could say he filled the role they pay a sports psychologist mega bucks to do these days ..... red anchovy

Ahhh those really savvy season ticket holders come into play again .....

Let's take a cross section of views from this forum .... on say Xhaka , Mertesacker , Guendozi , Bellerin ,
Mustafi , Clichy , Giroud .........would that count for anything ...? red kipper

"Two years at the club etc etc " I'm only mentioned that one year ... red sardine

Okay ...checking the score here ..... that's one , two , three , four plus the previous two .....

Nouvelle- Zelande 6 Allermagne 0 .

Well said Gaz ..... as you say we will never know ; you'd like to think we'd have cobbled together a few results to avoid relegation if he hadn't arrived .......

but Terry was part of the team and results improved after he arrived ...... end of

I am sure this will not be a popular post as most are trying to see rainbows after Artetas appointment.

Not seeing any improvement in this team at all. Bit more enthusiasm, but I am not seeing the players getting into triangles, not seeing better passing, indeed it is much worse. And again we just didn’t turn up until 15 minutes had gone by. Poor decision making is a constant. We hardly created any chances at all and as the home side you needed to look at the fixture to realise it. Tactically I am not sure Arteta knew what to do to change this game.

Jury still out for me on Arteta. I just am not sure he is the manager to rebuild the club. No excuses he played Xhaka & Torreira as people keep calling for. But this was dismal. Thankfully I did not pay good hard money to watch that tripe.

So frustrating today.
We deserved to win that game but it's the inability to kill teams off which has seen us lose to Chelsea and draw with Palace and Sheffield utd. A second goal today and that game is over. We seemed to break a few times with opportunities to put a man through but wrong decision or a bad pass.
Can't speak for others but I can already see a difference in the way we are playing and the commitment we are showing.
We could have lost that game if 2 of our players hadn't literally thrown themselves in the way of shots at 1-1.
Dying for the shirt. It was great to see.
Rome was not built in a day.
Im soo frustrated with their late goal and the dropped 2 points but we have the right man in Arteta. I'm convinced.
Saka was superb. Martinelli and Pépé played well and Xhaka and Torreira were good.
Even Mustafi was decent.
We have to qualify for the europa league so top 7 is imperative as I'm sure the fa Cup and caraboa Cup will be won by top 6 teams which means europa qualification goes down to 7th.

In the heat of the moment, live I thought it could have been a penalty. The replay was shown and I reversed what I saw live.

You are right he was impeded. If the rules are impeded in the box, PK given so be it but as far as I know the player could have gotten to the ball if they weren't impeded. Close call. As the saying goes "I've seen those given"

What about getting Steve Cook to replace him ?

John-Jules scores on his loan debut fro Lincoln yesterday. Bangs them in for fun for the youth team

There is a stat going round about penalties and Mike Dean.
In 64 games he’s only given Arsenal 3 penalties, 1 every 21 odd games.
In a similar number of games he’s given Man U 1 pen every 4 games, and Chelsea, city and spurs 1 in every 5-6 games.
60 odd games must be getting on for 10 seasons worth of games.

I just don’t understand how the numbers are so consistent for the other top 4 but miles away for us. He can’t ref Liverpool games as he’s from that area.

Dean has always been a ref for me who isn’t afraid of giving a big decision, I’m sure he had one of, if not the, highest pen count in the league. I think he slightly revels in giving big decisions, like showing he’s brave enough. I remember him making Lampard take a penalty 3 times for encroachment when every other ref was just ignoring this rule weeke in week out. Why such an anomaly in the stats with us

Ticks a few boxes - reaction time excellent. Price reasonable.

Mike Dean has always been incredibly biased against Arsenal. Statistics prove it because they are so wildly skewed. The win loss percentage in the Wenger era with and without him as a ref is a similar one sided affair as the penalties. Celebrating for Spurs when they scored against us just one of countless examples along with sending our players off while turning a blind eye to the same infraction in the same match from the opposition.

Absolutely the last ref you'd want to see for an Arsenal match if you want it to be fair and balanced.

So rare to see such an obvious handball, especially in the 30th odd minute.
If Cook was a GK it would be one of the saves of the season

Grealish is a wonderful player. Surely destined for a big money move to a top team. His performances this season have probably priced us out. I think he’s better than Maddison

painful ... Evening Rich ...... if you honestly think Pépé's second effort was a genuine penalty you need either high bi focal glasses or counselling .

Our mincing *%^@ hung his legs out and dived

At least Charlie George played for Mee, so I’d say he would have more knowledge of the man than you or me. I was simply replying to Exiled’s claim that Charlie was as to blame for their relationship as Mee. That was not the impression Charlie gave at all in the Q&A. So I don’t see my post as remotely shambolic. Perhaps Charlie has changed his mind, but he did say at the Q&A that Mee was the reason he left.

When I’ve got the time I’ll go and look up the post by you that set this discussion going. It was a short one but it certainly gave me the impression you were giving Mancini the credit for keeping us up. In my opinion that is wholly undeserved. With him we finished 16th after finishing 10th the previous season. In his second season we finished even lower, 17th. Then he left and we improved to finish 8th. Sorry but I do not see that as a coincidence. So I do consider both seasons relevant.

We started his first season badly before he arrived. But it is not a fact that any short term upturn in results was down to his signing, which I think you claimed elsewhere. It’s an opinion. Just like mine that he did more harm than good to us over his two seasons at the club, despite his joke telling. The funniest thing about Mancini in my view was his performances as a player. Just a shame he joined Arsenal to show what a joke as a player he was, in my view at least.

Also, I think it’s better to look at things on a slightly longer term basis like two seasons, which were the ones when we were in a relegation struggle. You disagree, that’s fine. But I’m clearly not going to convince you what a shite player Mancini was, and you’re not going to convince me that you are right about him. As the saying goes, we’ll have to agree to disagree because his true impact is judgement, not fact. I’ll go with my opinion, you go with yours.

Bernard , Bernard , Bernard ..... honestly ; how much more candy floss can you throw into this debate .
History will show you lost ........ end of story

NZ 7 Germany 0

All 3 MOTD pundits said it was a certain penalty. Not seen a single journalist online suggest it was a dive.
I would be fascinated to see the view on here if that was Xhaka dangling a leg out in front of Salah, Vardy, Son, Kane, Zaha. Xhaka would get crucified for being so stupid and giving away such a soft penalty. For giving an opportunity for a striker to win the penalty.
To me and many others it is absolutely clear, the defender hangs a leg out and Pépé makes no attempt to hurdle it or go round it, (and not should he) and yes, he makes sure he goes over it - as 99% of players in that position would do. Did that leg being hung out impede the progress of Pépé? Yes. Did he win the ball? No. It is as cut and dry as it comes.

Well ...we obviously had different broadcasts ..

I thought he dived ; Bryan Robson thought he dived ; and his main commentator thought he could have stayed on his feet .
FFS he wasn't floored by the tackle ... he dragged his feet to enhance the " foul "
If that same set of circumstances had been the other way would you be screaming for a Sheffield penalty ...of course not ....flaky

We didn't deserve to win and didn't ...............end of story

Lost in your opinion. In my view you lost. I think Mancini was astonishingly dire as a central defender. Being good at telling jokes doesn’t mean he saved us from relegation.

This was the post that started it.

I think the game has changed with regards what gets given as penalties these days. In the 1970s kiwi would normally have been right and a penalty not given. These days I see Rich as right as I think most, or even the big majority of refs, would give that challenge as a penalty. At the game it was hard to tell. Seeing the replays on MOTD convinced me otherwise that to keep in line with modern decision making, a penalty should have been given.

If we can get our act together plenty of other teams are incredibly inconsistent as well. Spurs, Chelsea and Man U are scrapping for points and wildly inconsistent. The difference is the points they put on the board at the start of the season and their ability to click and win a game 4-0.
I’ve always thought it’s much easier to get out of trouble because those around you aren’t picking up wins, but this season (and last season) 4th will be the least bad of a pretty average bunch

1965. Branco Kubala, son of Ladaslao Kubala (google is your friend if you don't know the name) training at Highbury.

I hope Leicester and Sheffield United get them if we can’t. I’m assuming Manchester City will get the other ‘second to fourth’ place.

With Liverpool walking the league as they are, for neutrals I see the fight to avoid relegation as more interesting than the top. Personally I’d like to see Norwich, Bournemouth and Brighton go down. I’ve no big affinity with Aston Villa but I hope they stay up as they’re such a big club. Also going away there gives a chance to get a meal at Glynn Purnell’s Michelin Star restaurant.

I find myself a stinking Man Utd fan today. Oh the pain and conflict in my heart.

Gotta give it up to Klopp, when he's on his game, he seems to have no equal. He is not consistent but when he's hot, he's very, very hot. Dortmund had such successes seemingly against unbeatable odds with BM having all the money and talent.

Now, Liverpool has the money, so he has the money to keep it going for a while. City have more (Chelsea even perhaps) but he can stay very competitive. Liverpool is a place players will want to come to. And to imagine, he lost Suarez, Coutinho, etc. and built an even better team.

One can only imagine if we had pulled the trigger and brought him in back then.

Isaac Hayden scored the winner for Newcastle v Chelsea yesterday, good for him after not making it at Arsenal. But also another example of Arsenal under selling players, I think we got £2m for him. Other top 6 clubs at the time would have got £10m easily

Last season I’d have been happy for Brighton to drop, they were a dull nothing team. This season I’ve been impressed with how Potter has turned their style around completely.
I generally want teams who add little to the prem to drop, I think Brighton add enough. I’d rather Villa drop as they spent huge amounts of money in the summer

The EPL is exciting and truly a league where anyone can beat or take points from anyone at any time and it won't be a shock. The managers, both foreign and UK based are by and large playing a style of football pleasing to the eye.

When I started watching football a couple decades ago, the EPL attracted me more than any other league. Foreign managers were scarce. The football was fast paced, aggressive and appealed to an American who grew up watching similar style of sport in American football, ice hockey and even basketball (before they softened it).

The passion of the fans was another reason as well. I think the EPL got a little boring to some extent a few years ago but its now better. I don't mind watching weaker sides play. The increased money and the normalization of foreign players to the league which helped the homegrown players immensely. I think England's national team benefited greatly from training and playing against foreign players and removed the fear factor from the better continental countries as well as the both the South American giants because the league has attracted some of the best talent from both areas.

Have to agree with this guy, this is the worst arsenal side there has been for some time.

https://youtu.be/ipZ7m4EZNPE

Yesterday it seemed the best way of actually getting the ball up to the strikers was to play a long ball to Lacazette and try and win the second ball or knock down. Our midfield is that bad right now. Arteta has my sympathy

Just turned on the tv. It’s halfway through the first half and our ladies team are 0-3 down to Chelsea. Oops.

Anyone seen this

What are the conclusions from this? Iwobi doesn’t shred his sensitive paperwork? Footballers are paid money and then charged tax? You could mock this up for any footballer surely anyway, bar the N.I number.

Sadly, I don't think we will win the Europa League with the team we have, full stop. Our defence is not good enough, our midfield not defensively savvy nor offensively creative enough and we simply don't score enough goals to compensate our fragility at the back.

I think we would need a couple of top signings and a big dollop of luck to win the EL and the former is not going to happen.

If you looked at how we finished the game yesterday you could be forgiven for thinking Emery was still in charge. It is going to take Arteta time to clear out the deadwood and bring in players more capable at this level.

Anyone still harbouring the hope we can still win the Europa league needs to seek urgent help and cognitive therapy

We have won 6 games out of 23 this season in the league. We won’t win any competition.

Bring on the end of the season

Hi TG,

The fact that our best player yesterday was an 18 year old playing out of position at LB and our only real goal threat was from an 18 year old playing in a wide area says everything about where we are as a team.

Luis has played very well lately but then you see him literally not jumping for a corner and letting his man have a free header and you realise we are capable of conceding at any moment under the very minimum of pressure. It's almost farcical.

Hi mate

I think Saka did well and is a good player.

The problem with our entire side at the moment is midfield. Xhaka is much better under Arteta. Why ? Because Mikel isn’t letting him run aimlessly around the pitch and demands he works in a certain area and this makes us more compact but not offensive enough if we also play Torreira.

We need to sign 2 new full backs, 2 central midfielders and a experienced left wide attacker. Only horse trading gets us out of this situation.

Arsenal at the moment are on a sabbatical or a coma right now. We need the season to end.

Lampard couldn't strengthen in the summer and is doing a halfway decent job without any new players. It will be interesting to see what he does with money. Chelsea are bound to spend big to make up for it.

I'd love to beat them next week. But right now, a draw is probably what we can hope for.

This match is my earliest memory of British football. I recall watching the news a little boy and there were lines of cops on horseback protecting fans coming off a train. And they are bustling to get to one another and my brothers and I were thinking 'This is insane!'...haha

Ironically, Philadelphia's old Veterans football stadium became the first sports facility in America to have a court and jail installed in it because of so much fighting. We saw it as the norm.

I wonder how things would have worked out had Ferguson stayed a few more years. My guess is he knew after that last title, he wasn't going to get one for a while and wanted to end on a high note. Smart. He must of seen the likes of Clough and Wenger and thought, I'm not staying past my time. The league has changed.

I'm sure he'd love to see a resurgence and he hates seeing that City and Liverpool are the clubs that are at the top and will win it for the next few years. Pep and Klopp will likely go back and forth on the title for the next few if not several years.

Wenger on the other hand must be having a 'I told you so' smirk on his face. Where we would be now had he stayed? Worse or better (hat tipped to omoh).

I still think it was time for him to go and have no regrets as a fan about it. In fact, we got him out way too late.

Agh your off our meds again aren’t you