Supporters Forum

warrior · **#498121**

gooner7 wrote:

DHD wrote:

Not quite G7. Xhaka's preferred response is to pull them back and get booked.

True that

And then act surprised that it happened.

Gaz from Oz · **#498122**

socrates wrote:

I think Aubameyang's berating of Willock for a misplaced pass was extremely poor. It wasn't the worst idea in the world from Willock, a little pass inside the fullback, but Aubameyang stopped his run and made the pass look far worse than it actually was. It was more a than a misunderstanding than anything.

Thought that when I saw it live and still think Aubameyang was the person who f...ed it up.

Gaz from Oz · **#498123**

TOP GUN wrote:

Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though

Ok - grab it

Gaz from Oz · **#498124**

kiwipete wrote:

Gaz from Oz wrote:

If we don't make the Europa league next year I think we might have a mass exodus of players wanting to leave the club:

Unfortunately I don't think that's the case Gaz ....

I see a ton of "passengers " content to pick up decent wages without busting a gut to turn things around .

Leno , Aubameyang , Lacazette and Pépé would probably go if offers came in

.......but the main culprits responsible for our predicament Mustafi , Sokratis , Luiz , Chambers , Kolasinac , Xhaka .... they aren't going anywhere

.........and who in their right mind would want them anyway .

I was in England in 1974 / 75 ....went to a fair few games when we flirted with relegation and I'd say we are in greater peril now .

It was a much more "level playing field " back then ...we lost games but were always in the contest '

We had Alan Ball an absolute titan in the leadership stakes . Talking the whole time , barking instructions , never shirked a challenge .

We don't have that now ..... we have a few quality individuals but no team , no leader , no tactics .

We are in the middle of the Atlantic sitting in a fast deflating rubber lifeboat ... with half a dozen Makos circling .

Ljungberg isn't the answer , simpering away post match , when full blown fire and brimstone is needed .

There is an " all too simple game plan " on how to play us and we haven't the personel or any idea how to combat it

40 points seems a long way away at the moment. Talking of players leaving I will bet that both Willock and Martinelli's agents have had phone calls already.. Willock maybe midtable EPL teams but Martinelli he will have some bigger clubs looking even now.

At least if we end in the championship Stoke should still be a division below us still.

I watched Millwall Notts Forest this morning..Most of our players could not survive in the championship.

socrates · **#498125**

TOP GUN wrote:

Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though

Hi TG,

I think you would have to take it if he isn't signing a new deal (and why would he to be fair).

Let's face it we aren't going to finish top four, we won't win the Europa League with our shite defence and midfield. Might as well take the money amd Jovic (if its even true they are offering him) and re-invest in a CB or two.

Lacazette, Martinelli and Jovic would not be the worst forward options.

Darren · **#498126**

I think someone like Ralf Rangnik might be worth looking at.

TOP GUN · **#498127**

socrates wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though

Hi TG,

I think you would have to take it if he isn't signing a new deal (and why would he to be fair).

Let's face it we aren't going to finish top four, we won't win the Europa League with our shite defence and midfield. Might as well take the money amd Jovic (if its even true they are offering him) and re-invest in a CB or two.

Lacazette, Martinelli and Jovic would not be the worst forward options.

I think you might see a large turn over of players this summer as many jump ship or the new manager brings in his own.

Just read that Lacazettes contract doesn’t expire until June 2022 so Aubameyang is more pressing but he is exhibiting all the signs of a guy who wants out too.

Rich · **#498128**

Gaz from Oz wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though

Ok - grab it

Yes to selling Aubameyang. If Real are offering £70m plus Jovic (who they bought for £50m) I’d rather just have the £120m. Clearly the money will be nowhere near that as with only 12 months left on his deal and he’s 30 already I think Real will obviously low-ball it and we’ll struggle to get £50m total. Just take it and move on.

I want to see us purchase forwards similar to Martinelli, or the salah/Mané/son type. Players who can play wide or up front, flexible, incredibly mobile, massively hard working, bags of pace and tenacity. I 100% believe this is the style of forward that is needed to be the best now.

Gunfire · **#498129**

Darren wrote:

I think someone like Ralf Rangnik might be worth looking at.

Good call.

long time gooner · **#498130**

Presumably we really are no longer one of the “big six” whatever the hell that is anyway. I don’t recall such a term in the decade when we were slugging it out with Man U.

Will the media switch to “big five” now?

Rich · **#498131**

Greeny wrote:

long time gooner wrote:

Presumably we really are no longer one of the “big six” whatever the hell that is anyway. I don’t recall such a term in the decade when we were slugging it out with Man U.

Will the media switch to “big five” now?

We were one of the "Big 4" a while back, as I recall

I think the term had more to it than league finish. Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool have all finished outside the top 6 in the last 5 years but weren’t discounted from that group.
It is as much to do with the size of the club, but stay outside that elite for a prolonged period and we will be discounted. Everton were in the original big 5 when the premier league started, miles outside that now.

As for the question as why would any coach join us, yes we are in a mess but look at the size and potential of the club. The stadium in place, a huge fan base itching for success, massive sponsor deals - put all that in comparison to smaller clubs no matter how well they are run and the appeal of Arsenal is still huge.

TOP GUN · **#498132**

Allegri quotes are quite interesting. It won’t be him either

Speaking to ESPN, he explained: ‘I don’t know if you can call it a sabbatical or not. As soon as the relationship with Juventus came to an end, the decision was to take a year out. ‘Next year will be an important year. Important for the choice I end up making and the need to be prepared for it. After a year out and five years at Juventus, I don’t want to go back into the game and do badly.’

Rich · **#498133**

I’ve been disappointed in the two starting line ups and formations we’ve played since Emery was sacked. It just feels like more of the same including Willock being the fall guy in the early subs.

A few things are clear to me.
Pépé needs to start every game, he is a threat
We can’t play Özil away from home - I’m not even sure we can play him at home
We can’t play Aubameyang and Lacazette away from home and the balance is generally not right with both in the team unless we have 3 at the back
We must get natural width in the team - for me this means Saka or martinelli wide left
Luiz and Sokratis should not be paired together
Sadly the team does seem a bit more stable with Xhaka in the team - yes it is that bad
We’re missing ceballos even though he hasn’t done a huge amount he still keeps the ball better

gooner7 · **#498134**

Aubameyang is not Captain material. I think he wants out. Sadly :20hospitals:

Rich · **#498135**

Our next two games West Ham away and Everton away. Apart from Watford and us these two teams are probably in the worst run of form in the league.

We should be preying on their lack of confidence and using the fact that we are better footballers to go out and beat them.

However, if you’re in a bad patch THE team you want to play at home is Arsenal. I can predict how both games will go, I’ve seen it all before. We’ll start ok but not enough to silence the crowd, we’ll make mistakes which encourage them, they will crunch a few tackles and fire off some long range efforts both of which will get the crowd on their side as they feel they can get at us. Eventually we’ll go 1-0 down and the place will be bouncing but still nervous. Confidence comes back and high press and plenty of shots on our goal follow. We may concede another or it’ll end 1-0 and we’ll be lucky to get more than 3 shots on goal all game.

Lincoln gooner · **#498136**

Greeny wrote:

Rich wrote:

I think the term had more to it than league finish. Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool have all finished outside the top 6 in the last 5 years but weren’t discounted from that group.
It is as much to do with the size of the club, but stay outside that elite for a prolonged period and we will be discounted. Everton were in the original big 5 when the premier league started, miles outside that now.

See the post above, Everton were Big 4 in the 70's/80's

Rich wrote:

As for the question as why would any coach join us, yes we are in a mess but look at the size and potential of the club. The stadium in place, a huge fan base itching for success, massive sponsor deals - put all that in comparison to smaller clubs no matter how well they are run and the appeal of Arsenal is still huge.

I don't agree. You could say the same about Tottenham.

The problem with coming to The Arsenal is you will be compared to Wenger and his Invincibles, and playing to a half-empty, soul-less corporate bowl is not really that much of a draw.

Wouldn't it be better for a manager to go to a mid-sized Club and make them massive?

I'm looking at Leicester City. Decent Stadium, ever-increasing, fresh, new fan base.
Newcastle. Big Stadium, massive fan-base.
Villa. Sleeping Giant, 2nd City team, great History.
West Ham. Huge Stadium, loyal fan-base, Academy, etc.

There's always a selling-point for coming to a Club, not least the wages

What about Brighton or Bournemouth? "Cool" Clubs, on the South Coast, plenty of cash, a chance to create something new and special.

No, I think the lure of Arsenal is not all that anymore, despite what we would all like to imagine

Add to that an ownership devoid of on field ambition, as long as the bucks are rolling steadily in.

Rich · **#498137**

I watch various team in the league who never press high, but as soon as they play us they press high and effectively. Those players can be coached to play a decent pressing game within a week. We also contribute by seemingly having no plan of how to counter a high press.
So why can’t the Arsenal players press? For me it is completely down to attitude and work rate. Most of this team are not willing to work hard enough to execute a high press, also they are too nervous to do it because the high press needs the whole team to buy in to it and our midfield and defence know they turn slower than an oil tanker and have snails pace so are unwilling to press high and with full conviction.

But then we get the worst of both worlds, we sit off and don’t engage the man with the ball. Completely passive. It’s qhy teams have so many shots at our goal, because we let teams stroll in to the positions where they can have a shot. Every game 2 passes from defence regularly takes out our front 6 no problem

Rich · **#498138**

Greeny wrote:

I'm looking at Leicester City. Decent Stadium, ever-increasing, fresh, new fan base.
Newcastle. Big Stadium, massive fan-base.
Villa. Sleeping Giant, 2nd City team, great History.
West Ham. Huge Stadium, loyal fan-base, Academy, etc.
What about Brighton or Bournemouth? "Cool" Clubs, on the South Coast, plenty of cash, a chance to create something new and special.

No, I think the lure of Arsenal is not all that anymore, despite what we would all like to imagine

So if Leicester, Newcastle, West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Bournemouth and Arsenal all sacked their managers and all went for the same manager you don’t think Arsenal would be that manager’s first choice?

Take all the points you’ve made in favour of the clubs above; big stadium, massive fan base, good academy, sleeping giant, chance to create something special and that all applies to Arsenal!

Rich · **#498139**

bromley gooner wrote:

Add to that an ownership devoid of on field ambition, as long as the bucks are rolling steadily in.

The table above showed Arsenal with the 3rd highest net spend in the league over the last 5 years. I’m sure there are plenty of managers out there that would look at that and think they could do something with that kind of money and a non-interfering owner.

I’m no fan on Kronke and his lack of ambition but quite simply the money has been there and if it had been better spent, with a better manager and with a much clearer vision from the footballing side of this club then there is no reason why we wouldn’t be up in the champions league spots.

Given the money spent there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the team should be doing better than they are irrespective of Kronke.

If we’d managed player contracts better and swallowed our pride when having to sell players, or got proper prices for sold players, we could have had another £200m to play with from the likes of Sanchez, Ramsey, szczesny, Gabriel, wilshere and countless others allowed to go for free or cut price.

AmericanGooner · **#498140**

Everton caretaker Manager, Duncan Ferguson after a goal. LOL...he is over the moon.

Rich · **#498141**

Greeny wrote:

Rich wrote:

So if Leicester, Newcastle, West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Bournemouth and Arsenal all sacked their managers and all went for the same manager you don’t think Arsenal would be that manager’s first choice?

Take all the points you’ve made in favour of the clubs above; big stadium, massive fan base, good academy, sleeping giant, chance to create something special and that all applies to Arsenal!

What I'm saying is that now the gap is closing.

I hope The Arsenal would still be everyone's first choice, but that's only from my point of view, but I'm not sure that Arsenal is a clear favourite now, and the difference between them and us is now paltry.

A couple of years of mid-table mediocrity and there will be no discernible difference.

To an extent I agree but big clubs remain big clubs - how can Leeds attract a coach like Bielsa. Leeds have been outside the top division for 15 years, even dropping down to the third tier. Their size and history as a club makes them a far more attractive proposition because the ceiling is so much higher if someone can get it right. That’s why Arsenal will remain a more attractive proposition than any of those clubs you’ve named for a long time.

Ash · **#498142**

Cracking game between Chelsea and Everton, Everton 2-1. Like a cup tie with big Dunc on the sidelines roaring them on. Remember when football was fun?

Rich · **#498143**

Everton sack their manager. Next game Everton 3-1 Chelsea. Work rate doubled, concentrated, professional - new manager bounce simply because the players are motivated.
We’re the only team in the league who can’t muster a response to anything. We’re sat feeling sorry for ourselves and not willing to work hard to get out of the slump.

Rich · **#498144**

Greeny wrote:

Rich wrote:

I’m no fan on Kronke and his lack of ambition but quite simply the money has been there and if it had been better spent, with a better manager and with a much clearer vision from the footballing side of this club then there is no reason why we wouldn’t be up in the champions league spots.

Given the money spent there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the team should be doing better than they are irrespective of Kronke.

If we’d managed player contracts better and swallowed our pride when having to sell players, or got proper prices for sold players, we could have had another £200m to play with from the likes of Sanchez, Ramsey, szczesny, Gabriel, wilshere and countless others allowed to go for free or cut price.

And if we hadn't spent vast amounts of money on poor quality players.
And if we hadn't spent money on the wrong positions.
And if my Aunt had bollocks...

Too many "if's"

Reality is we have a very poor set-up now in place, both with the playing staff and the non-playing staff

That will take years to resolve. And proper money.
Best example - Özil

The original point was whether Arsenal are an attractive place for a manager compared to other mid table clubs. My point was look at the money that has been spent, any potential manager would want a slice of that. What manager would prefer to be scraping around in the championship for £5m players rather than having £30m to spend on a player.
And any new manager will back themselves not to make the mistakes of their predecessors.
For me it’s simple, Arsenal will remain a more attractive proposition that the likes of West Ham and bournemouth!!! That goes for players and managers. An awful lot needs to happen for that to change.

AmericanGooner · **#498145**

Thank you Everton. Although at this point it looks like Chelsea will still take the 4th spot unless Tottenham or Man Utd can make a go of it.

Ash · **#498146**

Greeny wrote:

Rich wrote:

Everton sack their manager. Next game Everton 3-1 Chelsea. Work rate doubled, concentrated, professional - new manager bounce simply because the players are motivated.
We’re the only team in the league who can’t muster a response to anything. We’re sat feeling sorry for ourselves and not willing to work hard to get out of the slump.

And you think a manager would want to try and sort that mess out?

And even if a decent one did, how long would he be given by our fans?

I can see the attraction of managing The Arsenal, but there are many, many negatives

We just need some decent CB’s. Would cure so much. Crucially Everton have a couple of decent CB’s and just out worked Chelsea today. Mustafi was brought in as our solution last week. Mustafi. Not there was a lot of other choice.

AmericanGooner · **#498147**

3 things may happen when all is said and done with this Liverpool side and yes, its early days but still, it is very possible. 1. Our invincible season will be matched with a far greater number of points. 2. Our 49 match unbeaten streak may be extended even into the 60s possibly. and 3. Manchester United fans won't like this but this side may very well be dubbed not just the greatest PL side ever but the greatest first division (which essentially is all divisions) side ever.

Again, I wouldn't be shocked if Liverpool wins 30 matches and draws 3 or 4 for the rest of the season. I can see them winning all the domestic trophies, a feat no one has ever done as far as I know.

I know...I know...its too early for all that AG, we're barely in December with the holiday fixture congestion coming up. I hope, no, pray they lose soon. It's not going to happen today.

AmericanGooner · **#498148**

Goonie wrote:

gooner7 wrote:

Aubameyang is not Captain material. I think he wants out. Sadly :20hospitals:

We need to rebuild anyway... I wouldn't mind seeing an attack made up of Pépé, Martinelli, Saka and Nelson. Not necessarily all four all the same time though.

I want to base our team selection not only on talent but give a greater consideration to commitment. Özil isn't up for it and some others aren't. I would rather see hungry players even if they are not as talented as another player in the same position. Right now we are bereft of passion and commitment.

Let's lose the right way....if we have to lose. If that makes any sense. lol.

AmericanGooner · **#498149**

I used to be in total fear of us finishing 8th or 9th. I'm not anymore. This season may just have to be written off. Since the 2014 season Man Utd have finished as low as 7th and and 6th twice and no one I know thinks they will stay that way forever. They will be back, its just a matter of when not if. Rodgers was 8th at Liverpool when he got the sack.

We are still a big club and have a brand and if we manage things right we will be back. The biggest hindrance is the Kroenke family. It's possible Stan (and Josh) to change their strategy with us. Look at Man Utd? When the Glaziers bought them they were the anti Christ to Man Utd fans. Now you never hear a cross word said about them. They changed their strategy when it came to Man Utd and put in football men in charge, and they just shut up and wrote checks for the most part.

When you hear fans criticize Man Utd its about the Brits in charge in Manchester and not the Glazeris in Florida.
Kroenke is not going anywhere. He's a buy and hold type of investor unless the business has no future (like his malls that his wealth was built on). If Kroenke can be convinced to be like the Glaziers we may eke out a decent future as a club.

Rich · **#498150**

AmericanGooner wrote:

Again, I wouldn't be shocked if Liverpool wins 30 matches and draws 3 or 4 for the rest of the season. I can see them winning all the domestic trophies, a feat no one has ever done as far as I know.

The league cup will be tough for them to win. They’re going to be playing a 3rd best 11 v Villa in the next round as the best squad of 22 are at the club World Cup. I think Man U, city, Leicester all still in the league cup as well.

They are a fantastic team and Klopp has managed his rotation well to show they can win without key players.....but I still don’t think their squad is as strong as many think. I actually think they can afford to lose the front 3 more than their defenders. The number of games we’ve been without 3 of our back 5 for long periods....imagine Liverpool losing Robertson, Trent and VVd for 10 games? Gomez, Lovren, Matic, milner that back 4 doesn’t scream security and the full backs won’t be churning 30 assists a season like Trent and Robertson do. Staying fit is part of being a great team, our invincible team stayed healthy for a lot of the season, but a few big injuries and things can change very quickly

Lincoln gooner · **#498151**

Greeny wrote:

One of the trickiest football questions in recent times...

Who is this and what are those?

You're definitely blocked :icon_mrgreen:

Gunfire · **#498152**

Manure should be at least 2 up. City very ropey defensively.

Gunfire · **#498153**

0-2 City being torn apart.

Decaf · **#498154**

Gunfire wrote:

0-2 City being torn apart.

Could easily be 5.

Decaf · **#498155**

Greeny wrote:

Need some help guys, what are those funny images on the bus?

And who is Anthony Martial? And who is Marcus Rashford?

AmericanGooner · **#498156**

I thought for sure the scoreline would be reversed at this point in the Manchester derby. But that's football isn't it? We need City to win this thing or at least draw. Right now, we are out of the top 4. No way we are going to make up points on Chelsea. I think the fight is for top 6. In a strange way being out top 6 may be what is needed for the Kroenke's to take us more seriously. The loss of that money will not go down well.

AmericanGooner · **#498157**

...but I think until the LA Rams stadium is finished and up and running, we are going to be a distant 2nd fiddle to the Rams. When in LA I remind Rams fans we have the same owner, so doesn't it make them by extension Arsenal fans? The looks I get after saying that...haha.

Decaf · **#498158**

AmericanGooner wrote:

I thought for sure the scoreline would be reversed at this point in the Manchester derby. But that's football isn't it? We need City to win this thing or at least draw. Right now, we are out of the top 4. No way we are going to make up points on Chelsea.

But Chelsea keep losing to mediocre opposition. As do City.

Rich · **#498159**

De gea booked for timewasting in the 54th minute.

How does no gk get booked that early against us?

Ash · **#498160**

Rich wrote:

De gea booked for timewasting in the 54th minute.

How does no gk get booked that early against us?

There are a lot of narratives in football, life too, that’s it’s hard to not be affected by. City are the champions chasing Liverpool. It shouldn’t affect referees but it clearly does. Just as our narrative is we’re soft so we don’t get decisions because teams are allowed to get away with it, because hey it’s Arsenal they’ve probably gone down easy. And now we’re in crisis. That does affect at least some decisions in my opinion. We’re also *%^@, I’m not forgetting that...

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