Yeah it’s incredible how they can be so god fearing yet sucked in by it. I had 2 colleagues there based in Miami who were pretty smart guys and I almost fell of my chair when they both told me they were voting for trump.

I think talking politics seems fine in California with business contacts but I wouldn’t breach it in Florida.

In Vegas around the time trump was trying to do away with Obamacare an American in the bar next to us who had clearly been pumped full of Trump propaganda was trying to to tell us our NHS was an appalling idea and listing a load of plainly non truths. Politely bit my tongue.

This type of “hate politics” will be seen more and more over here now. Dominic Cummings, Boris and his like worship The trump campaign methods and are adopting them now. More division coming

The leavers can't name a single benefit to brexit ..

Because they can.

They just won't admit they want a Britain just for the British.

They want to be able to start sending foreigners "back".

And they see that as "a start" before moving on to black and brown Britons.


That’s why you won’t get logical or rational answer to the question you are asking here dude. Nobody does something for no reason in life but if you can’t publicly admit the reason because it’s grotesque then point at something else no matter how stupid it is.

I've been asking Brexiteers for the last 3 years and have been unable to get an answer from anyone. The way some of them answer sovereignty makes me smile as they can't give one law they want to change. What annoys me the most is when you look at meetings of the brexit parties is the age of them. It's all people of my age who are screwing up the next generation. It's sad.

I couldn't agree more,

Brexit is largely an older generations fight against the 21st century and a tool to empower racism.

Nobody does something for no reason. If somebody is unable to provide a logical answer for why they did something there is a reason and the reason is because they are a bit dim or don’t want to reveal their sinister true intention.

I wouldn't disagree, Niall, but it's still a terrible idea. An imaginary border in the middle of the sea. That really is quite absurd.

Self-determination. The UK contributes to EU funding and has committed to doing so. Now you can argue that the benefits far outweigh the costs, but that really isn't the point theoretically.

It really is wrong to say that racism is the primary motivation applying to every person who supports Brexit.

Your right it’s about 80/20 with stupidity, but you can tell the ones who are though because they use words like “ invasion”. “Implode” and use all the world war 2 cliches

That’s a really good point Gaz. In the Home Counties around London, there are virtually no Brits employed in the Hotel / Restaurant / Hospitality sector. There are more Brits employed in the North but the vast majority are still ‘Guest’ workers. This sector is vital to the nations economy but it’s probably staffed 80-90% by foreigners, not just from Europe but from all over the world.

Brits don’t really do ‘service’ any more - haven’t for a generation or more. Who knows how our ‘Guests’ will be replaced if, as is likely, they will leave in droves, put off by the rampant anti-foreigner vibe that pervades the UK now and unwilling or unable to get to grips with the reams of intrusive, aggressive and bureaucratic forms that are now required to be completed in order to preserve their settled status.

Some will say that this is all an unintended consequence of the referendum vote. Others will admit the truth.

Seems to me that if this deal is accepted, it will open the door for the re-unification of Ireland whose future will be as an independent state within the EU. Scotland will probably beat them to it as the clamour for a new independence referendum will be almost impossible to resist. Not sure about Wales; they don’t have a particularly strong hand in this game.

So England will find itself in a position that some will characterise as ‘independent’ but in reality, we’ll be a much smaller nation, isolated and surrounded by countries who in history have all suffered at the hands of the English.

Autonomous regional governments within England will probably follow. Those Saxons knew a thing or two, eh?

Woohoo...

What price London declaring UDI? The Independent Republic of the M25. Customs and border controls at every junction to keep the undesirables out.

I have ended up settling for a bus tour. I am afraid I don't do these trips very well as i get impatient with stupid people. But because I didn't want to do all the organising myself the trip does:

Istanbul (been before), Gallipoli, Ephesus, Perge, Aspendos, Pergomon, Konya and Cappadocia. looking forward to it.

This is a couple of weeks in a 3 month trip so I have a few alternatives should things turn messy. We start on a cruise which takes has stopovers at Petra, valley of the Kings, Israel before up into the Mediterrain.

Bit of time in Portugal and an 11 day walk on part of the Camino for my wife.

Not sure what happened to Luis in the international break but he seems delusional.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/david- ... ers-season

We can challenge for the title apparently.

Benefit # 1 of not being in the EU £7.8BN a year.

I would also be interested to know what the pro-EU brigade think about the theft of the 'best' employees from countries such as Poland for the benefit of the UK (and other rich EU nations), I work with two Polish people, both excellent at their job and nice to work with, funnily enough one of them is quite anti-EU, the other a little more on the fence, however surely it is not sustainable for either nation if we are taking their youngest, fittest and most able away leaving them with the very young, elderly and less able in Poland?.

What is the long term objective here?, move everyone to the richer nations?, subsidise the poorer nations more and more?, I don't really think this has been thought through properly, which is ironic given the amount we pay these bureaucrats in Brussels to spend all their time thinking.

I support Arsenal. There is no logical reason to do so. I am pretty sure I am not dim, so what are my sinister intentions?

What a dim, sinister and racist post.

There was a reason to do so though

Maybe the location

Maybe the history

Maybe a family member supported them

Maybe the red shirt

Nobody does something for no reason

EU law does not provide nationals from other EU Member States with an unlimited right to enter or remain in the UK. Most importantly, the right to live in the UK without any conditions or formalities only lasts for three months. Specifically, the UK retains the right to restrict the freedom of movement and residence of EU citizens and their family members within the UK

I understand the question your posing but immigration from the EU is at a 6 year low. I think Tony Blair’s government may have oversaw an influx of too much immigration but if European migration is on the decline why leave the EU with all it’s benefits (6% *%^@*** percent of our total gdp)

Would you really be interested, Wilts? If I set out some issues will you actually address them? Or is "I would also be interested to know what the pro-EU brigade think" a rhetorical device?

It is very arrogant to just assume that the issues you raise haven't been thought through by European bureaucrats and politician ... any less than they have by politicians elsewhere (the Tories? Republicans? ... that's funny). In fact, in the EU, these issues have been thought through to a much greater extent than elsewhere. Its great that your Polish colleagues could come and work in the UK with relative easy and without massive visa problems or becoming illegals open to abuse. I live in South Africa. Three of my smartest colleagues (in a department of about 12) are Zimbabweans. Yet there is a hard border, with a river with real crocodiles (not Trumpish ones) between SA and Zim. They came despite the crap they had to put up with (one worked for three month without formal pay while the authorities dilly-dallied about his work permit).

Those who live in the states also seem to have noticed that a hard Southern border (with or without wall, aligators, and 'moots') hasn't stopped pars of their labour market, both at the top and the bottom, being dominated by foreigners.

International immigration is not a product of open borders. It is a product of uneven development. It has been thought through. Its a vastly difficulty problem and simplistic answer like Brexit will make it worse.

This might be something to do with the fact that the UK is (supposedly) leaving the EU.

How? Brexit vote was 2016.

What about the other 3

This is absolutely a key point.

Also isn’t it missing the point a little to say “are all these foreigners coming to our country because we’re doing well”

What ! were doing well inside the European Union despite being riddled (not) with foreigners anyway ! Then why leave !


But in the end it always comes back to the question

“Why are these people with different accents and different colours in my country”

That’s what this is about. That’s why people can’t give logical answers because they don’t want to admit it.

Do you have the relevant numbers at hand, they'd be interesting to see.
All I was trying to point out was that with the prospect of the UK leaving the EU imminently, it would be perfectly predictable that immigration from the EU would fall.

Sperts a goal down to Watford, at home

I live in a small village in Buckinghamshire and use the local pub which is run by a lovely Slovakian couple who employ quite a number of Slovakians, mostly family members, also a few local youngsters. Clientele is mainly my age late 60s 70s I’ve asked those who voted brexit why they did and mostly the answer is immigration. It seriously is not a problem where we live. Say to those regulars what about the manager and bar staff and they say oh we didn’t mean them. I wonder what made them think like this?

I'm probably going to jinx them, but hang on Watford. If Tottenham lose (and even a draw will not be good), anyone think we will see Poch last past Christmas or New Years?

Apologies to Watford for jinxing them.

Watford GK messed up and gifts them an equaliser

Sperts dropped 2 points at home

You do it so bloody often though. You’ve been following football a long time now and you still do posts like your previous one. Try keeping your sodding hands in your pocket until the final whistle goes.

Disappointed in the result. You are at home, 1-0 several minutes to play, you should hold them off.
Still not a good result for the scum, they need wins right now but I was really hoping they'd lose.

As much as I'd like to put as much distance between us and Man Utd, I'm cheering for them to beat Liverpool. My anxiety about them going unbeaten as improbable as that may be has kicked in. I just want them to get a loss out of the way I so I can rest easier.

This is interesting. I'm not putting much stock in it. Arsenal pay 50 mil for a defender?


https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... i-16391326
Dayot Upamecano to Arsenal: '£54m transfer', Guendouzi's role and what the defender has said

Question of the day. Is this a good thing? For me it depends on the price. I like Ceballos and I think he'd be very good for us, but not if it means less money for defenders.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/19/dani-ceb ... wsnow-feed

Dani Ceballos to pursue permanent Arsenal stay after meeting with Real Madrid president


The Spanish midfielder has enjoyed a strong start to life at the Emirates since joining on loan from Real over the summer, though had said during the international break that he still hopes to make the grade at his parent club. But, according to El Desmarque, Ceballos used his time back in Spain to meet with Perez, with both parties agreeing that a permanent switch to Arsenal makes sense.

Zinedine Zidane still does not see a future for Ceballos in the Madrid midfield and Real are happy to let him leave if they receive a fee of around £34million – triple what they paid for him.

Ceballos is keen to get his long-term future tied up as soon as possible and would ideally like to remain at Arsenal, having enjoyed his time under Unai Emery so far.

He has asked Real to prioritise any bid from Arsenal over other clubs, though it remains to be seen if the Gunners will be prepared to go to the negotiating table midway through the season.

Er? Weren’t Watford away rather than at home?

That's what I thought.

mea culpa. I am in the states and we put the home team last when they flash scores, there are American uni football games on so they are all flashing scores of other sports, and Tottenham vs Watford in the states would mean Watford is the home team here. Reversed with you lot.

Anyway, still 2 points lost.

...oh, and I'm visiting my brother watching tv and he sees me on here posting on my pc and says 'Tell them I said hello' so I said "I'll post it" so I am.

Hello brother

We were there first

First, doesn't always mean the best.

Joking of course, these days "we" are closer the bottom than the top.

He (as well as my other brothers) are Arsenal fans by extension. They won't watch it but wish us well. Which is a surprise since one of them coaches a youth side. Spends his free time watching American football. That's a bit of a head scratcher but is the norm for a lot of 'soccer dads'.

My obsession was once a worry now its accepted.