Xhaka's not deadwood. He's not good enough for our level of ambition, but his good qualities are ones we need and aren't replicated elsewhere. I think during this massive rebuild, he will be important to us.

And then Abramovich turned up needing an insurance policy against assassination and the landscape of football changed forever. Suddenly foreign owner and cash were a thing and our old board backed the wrong horse.

Been saying the above for years. Diamond Danny at least put some money in at key times, but the rest of them just milked the cash cow to make themselves rich

If you did a fan approval rating of the top 6 clubs owners and ranked them from best to worst you’d pretty much get the league table order.

I’d much rather be in Man U’s position than ours. They do have sellable assets and can spend their way back in tothe top 4. Like us their own decisions are what is holding them back, unlike us their money means they will get it right sooner or later

Lots of theories of how to restart and bring some order and success toArssnal. I haven’t seen anyone mention brining back more of the old players. Particularly from the invincible era. It is probably too early for a lot of them but some are making waves in the game now. Without any leadership from the players we need to get it from the coaching staff, a reminder to every player who walks in to the club whatthe standards are and that pressure is good and we can’t settle for anything less than 100% effort and victory. There are some very intelligent and respected players from that era. That they were shut out by wenger and the club is another stick to beat them with

So emery can take over get the same harsh lessons but not the chance to fix them. Injuries to Bellerin and holding as well as not having a fit for purpose left back wrecked our season. No manager could change this

Ok where do you start, i mean what would you advocate dropping Özil for Willock? We would have lost anyway and people would have slagged off Emery for dropping Özil. For what it’s worth I think Wednesday was the straw that broke the camels back for Özil. He’s moved on or a bit part player next year (more likely the latter)

I’ve watched arsenal since mid 80s and this is without a doubt the most mediocre Arsenal squad we have had in that period my opinion. There is such a dearth of talent. If you even look at the squad Rioch had there was an embarrassment of riches compared to us now. The manager can instil confidence and belief but when there is such a vast chasm in the talent between the teams let’s be honest he’s on a hiding.

He doesn’t want to play Özil, he doesn’t want to play Kolasinac (who he blatantly doesn’t trust) , he knows Laurent was shot to pieces. Wishing and using his magical powers doesn’t change these things.

Finally don’t talk to me about the nutters that own PSG, they shouldn’t be considered ambassadors of rational thinking

We seem to be being linked with a few young south americans (Brazilians, Argentinians, Uruguayans). I hope Edu has some great contacts in that part of the world because it may be our best way forward and best way out of this mess we are in even though it's risky in the sense that they often need a lot of time to settle.

Although, it must be said, with our transfer budget we need magicians not managers or Directors of Football.

I think Emery should have made tactical changes earlier in the CL final, put an extra body into central midfield and taken off Özil. In the early days of his tenure he would probably have changed things at halftime but he seemed a bit lost and indecisive.

I thought the subs were okay ish.

It was a watershed moment for Özil. The horse has bolted. I understand why Emery would want to keep him on, highest paid player and capable when he’s in the mood of defence splitting passes. We haven’t got many like that in the squad. It’s over for him now, fans have turned on him

Ah, those were the days when people running proper businesses had an influence in the game, not the filthy rich of today. Actually Jack's buying of the title had many earlier precedents - my mind goes to Everton of the 60s, and there were others. As for splitting from tradition, the gravy train has many willing passengers - always will have.

Özil's Premier League stats:
2015/16 35 apps 6 goals 19 assists
2016/17 33 apps 8 goals 9 assists
2017/18 26 apps 4 goals 8 assists
2018/19 24 apps 5 goals 2 assists

So he’s had 2 good seasons.

In particular since he signed that ridiculous new contract he’s been poor.

Often it was the "local boy done good" as well who had an affinity with the club.

The fact that Stan didn't even go to the club's biggest game in years tells you everything you need to know about where we stand in his priorities.

Dear God, by the powers of Paisley, may justice be done...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzKcNevWbO4

Must have been my one. Due to fly at 7.00 am, was told it had been changed to 9.15 am and it eventually left Stansted at 9.45 am. Not a good start to the day but after watching the game, things got far worse.

I'll comment on the game later.

That is right. I've never seen a stadium where the spectators, even those in the first row, are so far from the pitch.

That was a shambles wasnt it.
Torn apart in the 2nd half when i thought we had a real chance.
If we get that penalty then maybe its a different game.
Couldnt watch it to the end.
Still fuming how we proceeded to *%^@ up top 4
BEAT BRIGHTON OR PALACE AND WE FINISH 4TH AT LEAST
Infuriating how we just fell to pieces.
Has to be an overhaul in the summer
Lets see Willock Eddie and Nelson and Saka introduced.
Let's PLEASE get rid of Özil Mustafi and Mlki.
Ill be made up if that can happen. Get them out the club by any means possible.
Lets see some savvy buys.
Get some proper defenders who dont need to cost the earth.
Lower premier league like Mee or Taworiski at burnley or duffy at Brighton or someone like saliba at st ettienne. Someone young or upcoming before they become a household name. We need to be smarter.
Really needs to be decisive action in the summer to give us half a chance.
Doom and gloom at the moment.

You know how bad we are defensively when watching a game and you start thinking we wouldn't be any worse with Mustafi. And then when your thoughts go from that position to thinking we'd probably be better off with Mustafi, it says it all.

I'm going to be respectful towards Koscielny as he was once a fine player. But age and injury has not just caught up with him, it's overtaken him. I hope that was his last game for the club. He's now not even up to a squad back-up level.

The big difference is that when Klopp joined Liverpool there was a clear direction in how they wanted to play. Including individuals being improved almost immediately. I recall chatting with a scouser at the time and agreeing that the results weren't great but there were signs of progress. I don't think Emery gets a free pass, particularly when results and player performances have gotten worse over time, not better. The rest of what you said I agree with.

The point you are missing in your staunch "I love Emery " scenario .... is we got worse as the season progressed .

Both Holding and Bellerin had plenty of flaky moments so don't see how their absence was why we couldn't get more than one point when faced with Brighton , Wolves , Palace , Everton and Leicester .

I think Bernard ..... you'd be better off doing a little travel blog , make something up ...the good looking sheila who sat on your lap because of a seat shortage , food , conditions , climate , impressions of Baku .

Every bloke and his dog knows how the game went .

You could have got in for free.

The Times today is reporting that the local authorities ordered the turnstiles to be opened during the first half so that the stadium wouldn’t look so empty. And they were giving out team flags so I guess that it was predetermined. UEFA not impressed although they are the idiots who caused it all to happen in the first place.

The jury’s still out on Emery for me it’s not a love affair. However I think fans simply screaming for a new manager are akin to brexiteers screaming for a No deal.

This stuff is getting forced on Emery and Stevie Wonder could see it.

Because of Kolasinac and Mustafi Emery has to play 5 at the back even though he hates it.

NOT EMERYS FAULT

The club pay 500 grand a week for Mhikitaryan and Özil to pretend to jog around each week

NOT EMERYS FAULT OR HIS CHOICE

Over the course of the season we lost Bellerin, Holding, Welbeck and Ramsey to major injuries. Meaning as a season progressed he had to rely more and more on people he couldn’t trust.

NOT EMERYS FAULT

Are people just blind. A major overhaul of the first team squad is required. If Guardiola arrived tomorrow he spends 6 months looking at his current players before telling the board he needs 3 defenders, 2 midfielders and 2 wingers.

This stuff is beyond the pros and cons of any individual manager to resolve and the crayon eating helmets who think otherwise really would be better suited to supporting chelsea

Amy Lawrence with a good piece about Özil:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/may/30/mesut-ozil-unai-emery-arsenal-europa-league-final

....some wags on the internet have started to call Emery “Bruce Rioja”

That's a standout line from a great article. Amy Lawrence understands it so well.

I make you right about Holding. I think it was DHD who a while back said words to the effect that he's not quite as good as his reputation suggests. If it wasn't DHD apologies to him. I agree with whoever did say it though. He's alright, quite good.

But the idea that he's going to be great, sorry I just don't see it. He's around the level of Sokratis. Both good back-ups to top level central defenders (which neither Holding or Sokratis are).

I did say that Bernard. There's always a temptation to see those who aren't playing as saviours, largely because by their absence, they aren't tainted by the mediocrity of the current team. Unhindered by failings, their reputations grow illogically and indeed irrationally. The longer they've been out, the better they become.

The thing is I think there aren’t many people being irrational about Holding.

Most would suggest right now he’s a 7/10 type centre half with potential to be better however as Bernard pointed out at the end of the day he is our 2nd best Central defender after Sokratis and was keeping Mustafi out of the team.

So remove our 2nd best centre back from the side, our first choice right back too and consider we started the season without an adequate left back and the whole thing is a recipe for disaster. It defined our season

Holding isn't a 7/10 centre back though. He's a kid who has never anything like an impressive run of games. He wasn't in Emery 's defence at the start of the season. Sure, he has potential but that's all it is at the moment.

Also, Emery isn't forced into playing a back 5. We've switched between back 4 and back 5 all season and been shite with both. Personally, I thought the team was better with 4 because we had better control of midfield.

Let's not forget that he didn't have Ramsey as first choice in his team for months too.

He played 16 times before doing his cruciate on December 5th and 26 times the previous season.

In his breakthrough season he played 18 times and I’m sorry DID Impress as we wouldn’t have been jokingly singing he’s better than Cannarvo. So sorry you are wrong, he would have chalked up a large number of appearances this season and the best return so far. Baresi he’s not but he was having a good season and was starting to impress when he got injured.

Ramsey was poor until he signed his Juve contract then the pressure was off. Emery was right to use him sparingly as he was right in “spiritually” dropping Özil.

Emery had flirted in between 4 and 5 but only really after the injuries hit. Anyone saying he prefers 5 defenders is ignoring he’s always played with 4 in his career.

If you try and mould a turd into a different shape it still stinks of shite and I think that happened a lot in the last few months of the season.

Spoke to someone high up in the AST at half-time as he was a few rows in front of me. I asked him if he knew whether Kroenke had bothered going to the game. He said he hadn't, and nor had Josh.

He claimed to know someone in regular contact with Josh, and had asked him how interested he was in Arsenal. He was told that Josh has a bit more interest than his father. But having a bit more interest than 'none whatsoever' doesn't add up to much. Anyone who thinks the KSE ownership regime will improve for the club once Stan kicks the bucket is probably being naive.

8 out of 10 season for the moderators for me.

I’m not convinced yet. Jury’s still out. They aren’t Elite

I’m minded to agree with TG. I like Holding - mostly because I get excited by any CB we have who’s faster than Xhaka and over 6 foot, by I know he’s not the stand out Centre half we want. I would rate his performances as adequate at worst and solid to good at best, which is a huge option to lose. Lots of players have been up and down all season so we can’t say he’d definitely have been a saviour, but he was undoubtedly first choice and doing well when he got injured.

Cant see it’d be anything but foolhardy to get rid of Emery now. I’d keep him for now and build the rest of the club back up as best we can - settle the back room staff, get the young players some games, try to get Özil et al off the wage bill, then see how we do over the season and make a change next May if he’s shown no improvement.

And also this, yes, if Pep’s the best manager in the world, what’s he doing with this squad and the players we’ve lost? A big zero as far as I can see. Even with his signings he had to buy again because they didn’t work first time round.

Also weirdly LB is probably the biggest hole in our squad right now, injuries notwithstanding.

Things, in isolation, I’m looking forward to next season - although maybe I’ve been Stockholmed:

Torreira’s second season - If he can get some consistently around him and maintain the level he started at for a bit longer he’s still a fantastic prospect

Nelson playing some games - hopefully some actual pace and confidence to try something out wide - but really just want to see how he matches up to his reputation coming through the academy.

Guendouzis second season - he lacked pace, end product and physicality under pressure but I was trying to work out what his actual strengths are and he does use the ball really well and if I could bottle his confidence and inject it into the rest of the squad I would. He does that deep through ball with perfect pace on the pass. He’ll be developing his physicality and hopefully add some end product into his game. And increasing his value so there’s that also.

Think that’s about it. Minor nods to Nketiah and Saka getting some playing time, personably I think Nketiah looks sharp and a goal threat, and Saka I just wish we’d seen more of. Bielik being in the squad - mostly because he’s huge and did well on loan which is what was asked of him. Chambers adding a body or if we sell him some money.

Think that’s it, which is pretty sparse. I feel much much better having read everyone’s moans over the last couple of days. Please continue to vent your spleen, it does my brain good. Looking forward to Bernard’s match report.

Neither Kroenke could be bothered to attend. What have we become?

Absolutely, let’s not forget he dropped Aguero for a long while after he joined. Totally nuts. The idea he rocks up at arsenal and all of a sudden Mustafi, kolasinac and Xhaka turn into world beaters is fanciful. Totally wizard of oz type imaginary

Also it’s missing the key point which is that no major type manager is going to want to join us anyway. The whole job is a hiding to nothing. It’s as close to the England managers job as you can get right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzKcNevWbO4[/quote

"So that now is six - nil. And this is becoming a rout."

Now, now commentator, no need to go overboard...

Josh was there. But no media mention of it. Really strange.

Stan Kroenke's son, Josh, was among Arsenal's travelling party but the owner himself was nowhere to be seen. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footba ... 351965.amp