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Post #319081  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:41 pm 
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This should cheer us all up.
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Post #319082  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:49 pm 
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DHD wrote:
This should cheer us all up.
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Long season ahead.


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Post #319083  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Zaha has officially told Palace he wants to leave, not sure if that is the same thing as a proper transfer request....but it must surely only strengthen our position and weaken theirs.
I’d still be against spending any more than £40m plus some deadwood players we can’t shift otherwise.
If we keep going up, say something like £60m you’d have to feel the money would be better spent elsewhere more evenly across the squad. We do afterall have some very exciting young players who play wide.....we don’t have that luxury in defence


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Post #319084  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Zaha has officially told Palace he wants to leave, not sure if that is the same thing as a proper transfer request....but it must surely only strengthen our position and weaken theirs.
I’d still be against spending any more than £40m plus some deadwood players we can’t shift otherwise.
If we keep going up, say something like £60m you’d have to feel the money would be better spent elsewhere more evenly across the squad. We do afterall have some very exciting young players who play wide.....we don’t have that luxury in defence

Do we?

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Post #319085  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:35 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Zaha has officially told Palace he wants to leave, not sure if that is the same thing as a proper transfer request....but it must surely only strengthen our position and weaken theirs.
I’d still be against spending any more than £40m plus some deadwood players we can’t shift otherwise.
If we keep going up, say something like £60m you’d have to feel the money would be better spent elsewhere more evenly across the squad. We do afterall have some very exciting young players who play wide.....we don’t have that luxury in defence

Do we?

Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


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Post #319086  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:14 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
Do we?

Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.


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Post #319087  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Rich wrote:
Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

I can see Aubameyang going and Zaha coming in.


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Post #319088  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:18 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Ash wrote:

I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

I can see Aubameyang going and Zaha coming in.


I think if you sell high and buy a few players that’s one thing. Swapping Aubameyang for Zaha would be hard to work out if we’d be any better off and exactly how we’d do it :1laughter:

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Post #319089  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:44 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
Do we?

Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence

Our young wide players may be better than our young defenders, but that doesn't mean they are first team material. Saka and Nelson have barely kicked a ball for the club. It would be great to see some of the young players make it with us, but they really are only squad players at the moment.

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Post #319090  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:52 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Super rich men buying tax breaks - nothing ever changes.

That's why I spend all my money on booze, women, and horses. The rest of it, I just waste.


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Post #319091  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:44 am 
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Ash wrote:
Rich wrote:
Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

True on Zaha. But my point was based on a hypothetical choice between having zaha and spending nothing on defence, or having to entrust a youth team player in defence vs not having zaha, letting Nelson and saka play games on the wing but spending £40m on the defence.
And with our tiny budget it could easily be that choice
If we concede as many as we did last year we won’t get top 4.


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Post #319092  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:58 am 
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This is good if depressing article by Tim Stillman on KSE's ownership and how its allowed Arsenal to drift off into mediocrity.

https://arseblog.com/2019/07/we-care-you-dont/


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Post #319093  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:00 am 
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There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


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Post #319094  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:28 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


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Post #319095  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:46 am 
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Bored wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.

I think you’re both right. Not quite as good as some make him out to be.

Also, he nearly 24 (in September). I tend to see players as promising youngsters before that sort of age.


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Post #319096  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:58 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


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Post #319097  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:44 am 
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Ash wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


Hi Ash,

I'm disappointed that he seemingly is not going to be given a chance in pre-season to show his worth but it appears he is not Emery's cup of tea. No idea why. It is not like we are blessed with umpteen quality CBs and DMs.

If we do sell I hope we at least get market value for a 21 year old with his ability and experience and not practically give him away as we have other youngsters.


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Post #319098  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:53 am 
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I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.

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Post #319099  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:55 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.



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Post #319100  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:56 am 
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https://tbrfootball.com/krystian-bielik ... is-summer/
Krystian Bielik reportedly desperate to be sold by Arsenal this summer

This sub headline and reason seems pure fiction. If its true, its shocking and until I hear otherwise, I have to assume its written for clicks.

The Polish Under-21 international has apparently been told he’ll be sold because he was signed by Arsene Wenger.

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Post #319101  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:58 am 
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Mmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... mises.html

'The new leadership had their own agenda': Former Arsenal transfer chief Mislintat accuses club of breaking promises as he opens up on shock exit

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Post #319102  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:01 am 
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I have very bad memories of Bower. I wouldn't let him have it based on that alone.

https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/char ... -of-reach/

Charlton boss admits that Arsenal striker – linked with Valley loan – is out of reach

Charlton boss Lee Bowyer has ruled out a loan move for Eddie Nketiah.

The Arsenal striker had been on their wanted list but Bristol City were understood to be ready to pay a loan fee and the full wages of the Lewisham-born 20-year-old.

Nketiah scored a late winner for the Gunners as they beat Bayern Munich in their Champions Cup opener in Los Angeles this week.

“It is looking difficult,” said Bowyer.

“He is in the first-team and doing well in the first-team. I can’t see them letting him out on loan.”

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Post #319103  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:13 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Mmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... mises.html

'The new leadership had their own agenda': Former Arsenal transfer chief Mislintat accuses club of breaking promises as he opens up on shock exit


Absolutely why you need a driven owner and a solid board of directors. Execs and directors like Mislintat and Sanelhi are ships that pass in the night, always fall out with the club they work for, Always feel underpaid.

We need a proper owner and my god we need someone like Dein back


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Post #319104  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:16 am 
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Bored wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


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Post #319105  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:41 am 
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socrates wrote:
Ash wrote:

What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


Hi Ash,

I'm disappointed that he seemingly is not going to be given a chance in pre-season to show his worth but it appears he is not Emery's cup of tea. No idea why. It is not like we are blessed with umpteen quality CBs and DMs.

If we do sell I hope we at least get market value for a 21 year old with his ability and experience and not practically give him away as we have other youngsters.


That pretty much sums up how I feel. I can’t believe there isn’t a squad place for him given he’s excelled where he’s been on loan and at u21 and we’re lacking fit and mobile humans at CB.

I fear we won’t get very much for him either, he wants out, we don’t want him and he doesn’t have so much as a minute for the first team.


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Post #319106  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:44 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


See the thing about centre halves are the best attribute is inside their head.

If you think back to Tony Adams what would you say his best qualities are ? I’d probably suggest he was strong but also his judgement was his best attribute. Steve Bould absolutely likewise.

Holding seems a bit like that, he is strong but seems to have a good head. Great performance in the cup final when he was up againest Costa


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Post #319107  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:47 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I think the operative word is should. We should have more quality, but we don’t. I agree, fit he starts alongside Sokratis.


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Post #319108  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:30 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I also thought he was doing well. The balls to fire up in a cup final and call Costa a "*%^@*** nutter" at the age of 22. While some other candies like Özil flit around and do *%^@ all. I know who Id prefer in my team at work, let alone on a football pitch.


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Post #319109  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:33 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


See the thing about centre halves are the best attribute is inside their head.

If you think back to Tony Adams what would you say his best qualities are ? I’d probably suggest he was strong but also his judgement was his best attribute. Steve Bould absolutely likewise.

Holding seems a bit like that, he is strong but seems to have a good head. Great performance in the cup final when he was up againest Costa


I didn't see this message before replying but yes.


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Post #319110  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm 
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So, Martinelli in the bag for £6m.
Tierney £25m
Saliba £25m but back on loan to St Ettiene
Everton £35m or Zaha £??m
Cellabos on loan for a £2-3m loan fee

There is a definite need for a centre back, and really another RB because Bellerin won't be back until late Autumn and can't be expected to come straight back in and perform after that injury and no pre-season. You're looking at needing someone to play right back for the best part of half a season at least. I know we got burnt with Lichstiener but I'd shell out for Dani Alves on a 1 year deal.

Also, drastic need to sell some players. We should be shifting Elneny, Jenkinson, Chambers and it is pointless having 3 x left-backs in the squad if we sign Tierney


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Post #319111  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Ash wrote:

I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

True on Zaha. But my point was based on a hypothetical choice between having zaha and spending nothing on defence, or having to entrust a youth team player in defence vs not having zaha, letting Nelson and saka play games on the wing but spending £40m on the defence.
And with our tiny budget it could easily be that choice
If we concede as many as we did last year we won’t get top 4.


Hi Rich, always fix the biggest weakness. In our case defence. Although if we stopped playing the full-blown but half assed wing back thing then we wouldnt get caught out so much.

I think Zaha at 40m is a waste if money and wouldn't be remotely excited even if he did join.

Emery will be done by Christmas if he doesnt sort some *%^@ out soon.


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Post #319112  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:48 pm 
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P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.


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Post #319113  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:03 pm 
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If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?


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Post #319114  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:05 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Hi Rich, always fix the biggest weakness. In our case defence. Although if we stopped playing the full-blown but half assed wing back thing then we wouldnt get caught out so much.

I think Zaha at 40m is a waste if money and wouldn't be remotely excited even if he did join.

Emery will be done by Christmas if he doesnt sort some *%^@ out soon.

I’m definitely keen to ditch the back 3. I think we lose too much control of midfield and subsequently puts us on the back foot more. We were too often only 2 CM against 3 last year.


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Post #319115  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?

It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar


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Post #319116  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:29 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?

It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar

It won't be £70m for Zaha either. Nobody would pay that for him.

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Post #319117  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.

We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.

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Post #319118  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:50 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?

It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar



There has been considerable speculation regarding a deal for this fella but I think one of the difficulties, and perhaps it may well be why no one has pulled the trigger on him yet, is that there are believed to be third party ownership issues to overcome for any potential buyer. The clubs own a part of him and so do a few other investors. There was a time when we avoided these kinds of deals so it may not be something we would look to get involved in unless a straightforward solution could be found.


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Post #319119  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:28 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar



There has been considerable speculation regarding a deal for this fella but I think one of the difficulties, and perhaps it may well be why no one has pulled the trigger on him yet, is that there are believed to be third party ownership issues to overcome for any potential buyer. The clubs own a part of him and so do a few other investors. There was a time when we avoided these kinds of deals so it may not be something we would look to get involved in unless a straightforward solution could be found.

The other factor is that he has a really stupid name.

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Post #319120  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
dec wrote:
We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.


Also, neither are totally without worth. To terminate their contracts you need to pay them everything you would to keep them. So you may as well just keep them. Mustafi may be accident prone, but is still a better option than Zech Medley. Özil may lack aggression and defensive competence and a consistent goal threat, but he's still better than Robbie Burton. And, also, Özil is perfectly capable of having a better year without fitness issues and being a net positive.

All I have seen of Zech Medley are his brief appearances in the first team last season, when I thought he looked an outstanding prospect. I presume you have seen more of him than that. What are your views on his longer-term potential?


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