Indeed you have been lucky to see them live. The TV is never quite as good as being present. Still some of the goals from Messi this year have just left me open mouthed. I would hate to see our team at this very moment play against Messi.

On to the Valencia game- I wonder whether we will turn up?

Every sport has this argument and its great to be online or better yet, in a pub and hear the arguments. I will say this, I would respect the opinion of those who have seen all the players moreso than those that haven't. I have only seen Pele in youtube videos. I recall Maradonna during the World Cup only in the '80s because that's the only time Americans watched football. So I had no benefit of seeing him for the club as well as for Argentina other than the World Cup. And we must also take in to consideration that even if you grew up when Pele was at his best, you still didn't see him much if at all playing week in, week out for Santos as well as Maradonna for the club.

Then we have to take into eras, the pitch, refereeing, rules changes, etc. As you all know Pele wasn't allowed to play club football outside of Brazil. Had he not been lablled a national treasure, its pretty much a certainty he'd be plying his trade in Europe, my guess for either of the Portuguese or Spanish giants at the time. We can play 'what ifs' and imagine Pele in his prime playing for Benfica or Real Madrid in the European cup. Perhaps that would have elevated him beyond any comparison?

It's a heated debate in the NBA. Michael Jordan is tantamount to Pele and there was no issue for some time that he was the GOAT (Greatest Of All time). Now, its a heated debate whether Kobe Bryant or LeBron James was better. The old school fans would say Kareem Abdul-Jabaar was the greatest (and a strong case can be made). Wilt Chamberlain was said to probably be the best all around athlete for his generation.

I assume cricket has this argument to some extent, depending on the position. Rugby as well perhaps. But to say Messi is the best ever, cute and dry, no debate is to a large extent disrespectful to the past and I would guess most ,not all, but most of the people that say that have never seen Maradonna in his prime and certainly not Pele.

I've heard some CRonaldo fans say that he is a better all around player than Messi. Messi tops in scoring and dribbling but some argue that CRonaldo shades him in set pieces both kicking and heading (heading for sure for obvious reasons. Cronaldo's fans site other factors for him being the best all around player. Also, CRonaldo has shown he can dominate in 3 completely different leagues. And the he is primarily the only reason Portugal gets as far as they do in international competitions. Messi's club dominance has often times not translated to the national team where he is surrounded by great players.

It could be argued that were they more professional some of the modern Brazilian greats (Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Adriano) could possibly be considered.

Anyway, its a fun debate, I will toot my own horn and say I was probably the first post on him when I saw him in a youth tournament and said I will be accused of being over the top and say he was 'Pele-esque' in the competition. I think it was U17 competition. Can't recall exactly.

Both are unplayable many times but I'd have to say Messi at his best seems a wee bit more unplayable than CRonaldo.

I'm glad I've had the opportunity to see Messi as well as tons of others.

Actually Klopp did far worse in his first season than Emery is doing.

Pele for me Rich...

I never saw Pele live. All most of us ever saw of him was on TV at the World Cup every 4 years. He did play several times in England as part of the Santos travelling circus, at places like Stoke, Sheffield, Portsmouth and Villa. Odd to think how football has progressed but in those days, the only way Santos and Pele could make any money was by playing friendlies against any club who’d pay their appearance fee. Santos used to tour like the Harlem Globetrotters and get paid by the host club in readies, with Pele as their star (only) attraction trousering his slice.

I saw Cruyff live a few times and Maradona, as well as all the subsequent superstars. I mention those two because I thought Cruyff was the greatest I’d ever seen, but Maradona was better. But neither were as good as Messi whom I’m blessed to have seen live quite a few times now; though he’s broken my heart on more than one occasion, he has never disappointed me.

Messi

No mention of Wiltord?

He might end up doing better than Klopp this season too, if Klopp ends up empty handed and we win the Europa (touch wood)

"Barcelona loanee Denis Suarez will also not feature again this season due to persistent groin trouble."

I think you could say that about a few of our players actually.

Guendouzi is a big gamble in a game of this magnitude. Fingers crossed he has a great game.

Pathetic defending again.

5 at the back. And not a single defender amongst them.

Shocking

They didn’t even want to just jump

3 re%$#^s on our back post. That’s our season over

And why play Čech?

Well you can’t say we weren’t warned. They did that exact set piece moments before. It feels like Arsenal defenders go out on the pitch with a set of orders but when anything falls outside that set of orders they are either unable to react or adapt or make the wrong decision in reacting or adapting.
Awful start

Don’t want to make excuses, but there’s no confidence in our play at all.

Even if your *%^@ at defending you can’t sacrifice a midfielder for an extra defender cause you won’t control the game

We are waiting for emery to change it

Btw this is done

Finished


We blew it. Emery *%^@** this one up

Once again we look like we’re facing a team where every arsenal players opposing man is quicker and stronger

Lacazette 1-1 very much needed!

If you play 5 defenders at home you will let them dominate

Lacazette 2-1 great header!

2-1. Are you sure TG?

I still don’t believe it. We need another 1 or 2

There’s no clean sheet in Valencia

Enjoying a ref who actually understands the advantage rule

The lack of mobility and acceleration in central midfield (and the team in general) is a worry. Right on half time Xhaka made a good tackle, turned to get the ball he’d won and by the time he’d done that the Valencia player he’d tackled had run around him and forced Xhaka to foul him.

Hope Lacazette gets his third in the second, for his hattrick. We need a two-goal cushion, at the least. Come on Gunners!

I'm just hoping for a clean sheet in the 2nd half for a start.

The Mkhitaryan for Özil sub makes no sense. Kos is clearly struggling. He has to come off. Özil was quietly effective.

No wonder these players are crap. Why did Emery clap Xhaka’s pitiful attempt then?

And I was just about to write that I think Kolasinac is completely useless

Massive goal. 3-1 Aubameyang

Well how in the world did we do that?? Also footballers covering get their mouths when they talk makes them look like self important twats.

Kind of feels like we got out of jail a bit. I don't think 2-1 would have been enough but 3-1 is a reasonable advantage.

Terrific comeback but we also missed some sitters, as did Valencia.

Lacazette brilliant but missed two sitters, Aubameyang also excellent. Take those two out of our team and we are very, very average.

I thought the subs were odd, Torreira was the correct player to bring on but Guendouzi was enjoying his best spell in the game.

Mika for Özil another odd one, Özil was having one of his better games.

AMN was very good as well.

Why on earth at 2-1 up did we keep playing 2 v 2 at the back?. I sometimes think we have some of the thickest footballers on the planet.

I try hard to like Xhaka but I just can't.

I wonder if we'll get to test that hypothesis this weekend ...

Normally, I'd be confident 3-1 is a decent enough scoreline going into a 2nd leg, along with fairly decent away form in the competition winning at Sporting Lisbon and Napoli but due to our recent form, I can't be over-confident. Slightly confident is what I am. If they score first, I'll get nervous because I can see a 2-0 scoreline happening. Big question for me is can we get 1 goal? 2 will be better. But if we can score in the 1st half it should leave us space for the counter.

I like it that Xhaka has been sending through balls for Aubameyang to run onto. We should be looking to do this more often.

Useless for 90 min, then that pass for Aubameyang. Still, not good enough for the day, 3/10.

That 3rd goal so vital. At 2-1 I’m not sure I fancied us. Of course we can score over there but Emery mustn’t over think it, we must go to score.
Last night we had
Decent gk
Shambles in defence
Slow, lack of mobility in midfield
Strikers who can bail us out

Seems like most of our season

I liked our second goal last night mainly because we don’t score those types of goals but we should be able to get more. Good quality early ball in to the box and a striker who has better movement than the defender. Height or strength doesn’t come in to it when you have an early ball and good movement.

The best exponents of this are Liverpool, full backs slinging in cross after cross and Mané mostly getting between defenders to finish. Would love to see us do more of this. Our play tends to cut back inside from wide positions or try to get to the byline for the cut back cross