They are still international footballers. Surely, they cannot be as bad as they look?

I am not advocating sacking Emery but I am increasingly underwhelmed by his management. Now we could end the season with a european trophy, although getting past Valencia is certainly no gimme with some of the bottlers we have, which would be amazing. We could also have a fantastic summer of transfer activity, both ins and outs.

I think what I am really saying is that the signs are a little disappointing at the moment but I don't think we have any choice but to see how the rest of the season and the summer plays out before we can draw any meaningful conclusions.

I think it's unfair to mention Monreal if you're not going to name Koscielny through an act of respect for the latter. Both fine players in their day but the fact is they've grown old together. I'd actually be surprised if Koscielny hasn't given away more goals this season than Monreal.

They both need replacing, so why mention Monreal but not Koscielny? Because if it is due to respect for Koscielny, which I completely understand and inded share, then Monreal deserves exactly the same respect.

I think the last 4 league games have been unacceptable. I’m on the fence about him as he’s made mistakes but I just don’t believe many other managers getting more out of Mustafi and Xhaka and co.

I just look at our weird line up for the Everton game,

Xhaka and Torreira, basically 2 midfield anchors not really a distribution hub,

Then ..

Iwobi Plus Mhikitaryan who just run down alleys.

It’s simply not a recipe to create chances and then you look on the bench and there’s barely anything there. You couldn’t criticise the starting line up.

There is no dynamic player in our squad, nobody who can deliver a final ball of any quality or who can manipulate the ball like an Ericsson.

I’m really not sure from a managerial position he could have done anything more in that game yet he’s getting pelters. If you can’t retain possession your defence will be under the cosh.

I think they are both decent servants who have had their time but for me Monreal looks the least preferable to be able to deliver at the level we need right now. Kosielny could be brought in for 5 to 8 games a season as an experienced head.

Me too. Trophy wins are more memorable and enjoyable than a top four finish. They end up on the clubs honours list. The only top four finishes that do are when you actually win the league.

I disagree. Moreover, Koscielny is even older than Monreal and has lost his pace, such a strong quality for him once. We've seen it this season, most recently with Vardy's first at Leicester. If he plays eight games next season we're in just as much trouble as if Monreal does.

Thinking more on the lines of 8 games in the Europa or league cup.

Think Mertesackers last year with us.

We could probably get away with Monreal in some of the Europa League group games and some of the League Cup games too.

Both Kos and Monreal have probably been shielded somewhat by simply not being the worst of a bad bunch.
Arsenal fans are generally happier when Koscielny is in the team but he is still prone to errors.

For the future Arsenal defence it feels like a whole new one is required. bellerin, Holding, leno can be built around. Sokratis is ok but still makes match-losing mistakes. Mustafi should be sold, Koscielny can't play as much as we need, Monreal is out of contract and I don't trust Kolasinac to play left back.

Ideally you want a minimum of 8 defenders for your squad, 2 for each position and some flexibility with a CB who can play RB/LB or vice versa. There is no way we're buying 5 new defenders this summer but in order of minimums I'd say we need
1. a CB
2. a CB and a LB
3. a CB, a LB and a RB (move AMN in to midfield)
4. 2 CB, a LB and a RB
No. 2 is most likely I'd say. Both players should be aged around 23-24, bags of pace and power and if they could actually display some leadership skills that would be nice!

I’m surprised more wasn’t made of Maddison’s blatant dive to get AMN sent off. He clearly wasn’t touched, no problem him jumping out of the way if he thinks he’s going to be touched, but he then rolled around on the floor screaming and holding his ankles. The replays show AMN going up to Maddison and saying “that’s not good Mads” they must be mates from the U21 set up.
Diving and feigning injury to get a player sent off of far worse than diving to win a penalty in my book.

Hope the Emirates crowd remember that when Maddison plays there next season

Not sure anyone has mentioned that we’re playing against Gabriel and Coquelin on Thursday. Both are first choice for Valencia.

If I’ve remembered them both correctly I’m looking forward to a series of reckless challenges when already on yellow cards, plenty of misplaced forward passes and general lack of concentration when one of our players makes a run in the box

A few articles have cropped up in the media criticising Emery’s tactics quoting player sources. Interesting, wonder why this is happening.

Afternoon Bern

But they're not that old.

Lee Dixon played until he was 38. Nigel Winterburn left us at 37 to play 3 more year at West Ham. Martin Keown played for us until he was 38 then left to play for Leicester. Tony Adams retired at 36 and David O’Leary left for Leeds at 35. Rio Ferdinand played for Man U until he was 36, then played another year for QPR.

Monreal and Koscielny are both 33. That's not old for defenders.

So Aug 2016, Mustafi from Valencia to Arsenal for £35m. Aug 2017, Gabriel from Arsenal to Valencia for £10m.

Hmmm...

I think if you have any aspirations of winning a title you can’t have a 37 year old full back in your regular starting 11. In Dixon’s last season he played about a dozen times if I recall so was used sparingly.

He was 37 when he got roasted by Michael Owen in that cup final. Total mismatch and it was obvious we needed reinforcements

I think centre halves can get by on their wit and positioning a little but full backs have to do literally tons of running so if you have one older than 33 they can’t be first choice. When Ashley Cole came into the side the more energy we had was visible

I'm afraid I don’t look for next season's saviours amongst the injured list. Rob Holding has appeared 31 times for us over 3 seasons; he made 15 starts this season, often because he was the last option, but was he really particulalry impressive? Wellbeck has started just once for us in the PL this season. Nice bloke but even when picked, has he ever maintained even a reasonable period of good form? Of our returning wounded, only Bellerin could be confident of selection based on performances.

Someone here mentioned how we have missed Cazorla, and I agree. We haven't had much quality - if any - in central mf since he got crocked. He would have improved us.

Wenger out!

Oh, he already is. Thank goodness

That was me

I think we miss him almost as much as Sanchez. I think him and Coquelin are a far better midfield base than Torreira and Xhaka which is too defensive as they are too similar.

I just used to love how Santi would be able to take the ball off our centre halves and hit passes off either foot that would start attacks (not square it via a cross field ball but put the ball forward) since he went Out of the side I don’t think we really are able to control games the way we did.

A Santi + Torreira midfield would have been perfect (if a little short )

Evening TG

Cole is still playing at 38 - not as well, obviously but at 33 he was a regular in Chelsea's first team until he was edged out because his contract was expiring. I agree Dixon was past his best against Owen - but he was 37. I can't be certain but I'm pretty sure it would've been a different story if he'd been 33, which I maintain is not particularly old for a fullback.

Evening DHD

Cole was past his best at 33 for Chelsea, if he was tearing up trees they would have offered him another contract.

I just don’t think it’s a normal comparison I mean Dixon, Adams and Keown were warriors and played to a very high standard even at the ends of their careers. Kosielnys problem is his Achilles is shot to pieces and Monreal whilst being a very decent and hard working defender was never a world class full back.

All players are different I guess. Age caught up with Ljungberg quite quickly if I recall, one moment he was buzzing round the pitch next he was barely mobile. As I’m finding out age catches up with you

Having said that if you gave me the chance to choose between a 27 year old Mustafi or 39 year old Steve Bould I’d pick the latter

I suspect Cole had become a bit too showbiz in his last years at Chelsea. He was rarely out of the media and - I think - he was perceived as trouble.

Just shows, 33 is a very good year for some things, though not as good as 35, according to Frank Sinatra. Their chauffeurs would drive!

Errors leading to goals in the last 2 seasons

Burnley 6
Liverpool/City/Chelsea 8
Leicester/Brighton 9
Newcastle 10
Utd 11
West Ham 13
Spurs/Watford 15
Everton/Palace 16
Huddersfield 19
Southampton 21
Bournemouth 22
Arsenal 28
That is shocking. Giving up 20 goals vs the other top teams on individual mistakes.

What is classified as an error ? It could be any goal

I'm afraid I have to agree with you about Holding DHD. I said something along your lines a while back. The way some go on you'd think he was the next John Terry. But he's not even the next William Gallas. He's nearing his 24th birthday so age wise is approaching his peak. If he was that good he'd be further along in the game. As far as I'm aware he hasn't even won an England cap yet and they hand those out like confetti these days. Grossly over-rated by some.

Ajax playing superbly, all over Spurs, and a goal up at the Toilet Bowl.

I don’t think anyone was claiming he was Baresi but his performances this year before getting injured were improved from last year and I thought the moment he left the defence we looked less assured.

If nothing else he’s another player that keeps Mustafi further away from the first 11

True but as long as the classifications are the same for each team it still shows we’re making far more than is acceptable.
I suspect something like Xhaka not tracking Tielmans in tothe box wouldn’t be classed as an error but Mustafi allowing Zaha to run round him and score would.

I’m sure plenty of fans are guilty of inflating a players ability whilst they are out injured

Ajax not offside for that goal?

Also what the fudge am I laughing at? We might never win a game again.

If the best thing about Holding is he's better than Mustafi, God help us. He's pretty damn ordinary and there were games when Mustafi looked better than him.

That's true Ash, but however bad we get I'll never tire of enjoying a Spurs defeat.

Telegraph headline
“Tottenham suggest they can pull off another Champions League great escape after Ajax fade in second half“

I mean that really takes the biscuit in overly positive, biased reporting. What is it with Spurs and the media? They fall over themselves to never give them any stick at all

How many times out of 100 would you take Holding over Mustafi? For me it’s 100. I think we can all safely say that makes him 100 times better than Mustafi. Good enough for me.

I think Spurs have earned that. A mate said to me this week I don’t know what it is about Arsenal they seem to lose so many games against rubbish opposition but they’re still up there. How many times have we been within a point or ahead of this “amazing” Spurs side yet they’re supposedly a great side and we’re so terrible. The perceptions are definitely different yet points wise we haven’t been that far apart.

I think it’s down to big results against big sides over the past 5 years and I don’t need to say any more now do I...

I'd rather have Holding but there's no way he's 100 times better than Mustafi. Not even close. There were games when Mustafi played better than him.

But I proved it. With conclusive proof. Subjective statistics I made up.

I don’t think we need to link Holding and Mustafi at all. Mustafi has played out any credit he has at the club and he should probably just go for his own good and Emery clearly doesn’t want to play him.

Holding is still building up his credit hence all the hope for him. And he did look pretty assured and crucially was showing an upward trajectory before his injury.

You've lost me.

That fits and had crossed my mind before. But it did mean he only started playing once the move to Juventus was sorted.