Here's Irvine Welsh as prime example of why it's wrong for England fans to enjoy themselves although I admit it IS a surprise to me that we ended up beating Paraguay while playing Panama.

Yes I mean in essence Welsh is right but you can only beat what’s in front of you and England did beat Columbia not draw. If we lost on penalties to the Germans and Co Down the years then we won that game.

I mean this clip of Wrighty owning Keane sums it up for me. *%^@*** hell england fans aren’t allowed even to have a laugh without being bandied arrogant.

https://youtu.be/Oaz4te3sqxQ

Yeah shame Paraguay weren't.

Genuinely, the obsession about England being arrogant is more virulent than avian flu. If you say you think Croatia might be tired ARROGANT. If you discuss the route to the final ARROGANT. It's absolutely fine to be a team of cheating, diving thugs with backward fans who ruin the atmosphere by incessant whistling just as long as you're not ARROGANT like the English with their beer tents and their ARROGANT jokes about waistcoats and the lumpen ARROGANT way they elongate the name of their country to make it scan a little better in a song.

I mean when Dejan Loveren demands respect from the ARROGANT English as he is one of the best defenders in the world that's NOT ARROGANT AT ALL of course.

Yeah we did. On penalties.

Biggest error - he was next to useless. Pure reputation.

The issue was basically you have 2 world class midfielders againest Henderson in the middle as Ali and Lingard just want to run forward and attack rather than distribute. When Henderson went off it just collapsed

No we did. On penalties.

There was another example of this confusion but I can't bring it to mind right now...

England losing just goes to show how much luck it takes to win a world cup. Much better teams had already exited giving England the easiest possible draw they could ever hope for. Unfortunately at the same time they also didnt have some of the players they probably needed to take advantage. Doesnt take away from this tournament though which has overall been excellent.

French overwhelming favourites but will be supporting Croatia to win it now.

NZ didn't win the 2010 World Cup despite being unbeaten.

I can imagine the Columbians suing Fifa for losing despite not losing.

Syrian refugee from Aleppo with his kids says they were shouting "come on England" until the final whistle.

I mean WTF - talk about arrogant!

http://www.thefa.com/news/2018/jun/02/from-aleppo-to-london-020618

Here's his story but I warn you it's not for the faint-hearted as it contains stomach-churning details of how Middlesborough - a club that is a) Ingerlund and b) Not Arsenal) - helped him to develop a new life here.

Chilling, and in what way could it ever make up for the highland clearances?

Penguins are fish.

But fish are NOT philosophers.

Ah but was he aware of what happened at the battle of Culloden in 1746 ?

Could have been a totally different story if he was

I think you could have stopped after the first sentence.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and makes pundits look good. But both of the semis, and many of the other key games in the competition, could have gone the other way. Some of the results (Spain and Germany going out) were a bit freakish but mostly the margins have been very fine. Croatia have shown tremendous guts and skill and they are good to watch, but coming through three games like that also requires luck ... a bit like winning three coin tosses in a row. Good luck to them in the final.

I think that's right - it could easily have been a Belgium v England final (which Belgium would be 80% favourites to win in my book - apologies for arrogantly thinking we might have a 20% chance or for thinking we would have had any right to be there because we only beat Paraguay or for showing any enjoyment/excitement at the prospect). I always fancied Croatia to do well but actually I'm a bit pissed off they're in the final especially after a bunch of taunting texts from some Croats I know (modest and humble bunch) and hope the French kick their arse.

No surprises from his beloved Scotland either. Irvine, have a pop at England when your own country actually qualifies for a tournament, never mind gets to the last four.

Keane has always been an unpleasant t*sser and probably the last person in football who should be considered an expert on a World Cup but if you have to resort to mocking someone's Cork accent to clinch an argument, I don't think you've 'owned' anyone. I'm trying to imagine the broader reaction if Wright mimicked to his face the accent of a pundit from, oh, let's say Saipan...

Its a pity the Belgium England game is going to be another phoney war. It would have made a brilliant final. More like 40-60, England's weak midfield notwithstanding.

France Croatia could be a bit dour. But this WC has been so unpredictable the final might end 5-5.

I don’t think Wright was taking the piss out of his accent actually. In the first interview it was hysterical they way Keane was lambasting Wright and Neville for being over confident and arrogant when clearly they were having a laugh and said something like “England should be concentrating on their next game and not worrying about the Quarter final, semi final ... glances over and stares at Wright and Neville and says FINAL” then they burst out laughing. The way he said final was hysterical and I think that’s what Wright was just trying to say rather than be spiteful

With a midfield anchored by 'this game's crying out for' Jordan Henderson I don't think Ingerlund, sorry England, have much to be arrogant about. Plus that waistcoat is frankly a fashion disaster.

Wright doesn't cover himself in glory by mimicking Keane's accent but his general point is a good one. Not one person I know was taking it for granted that England would bear Croatia. Hoping, of course. Assuming, absolutely not. And Keane sits there saying we shouldn't be celebrating until we've won the trophy. If that's the case Roy the only goal celebrated in the whole tournament should be the one that wins the final? Utter nonsense. The whole point of getting to the tournament is to enjoy the journey, for however long as it lasts. And as a country we've done that. Guilty as charged, sorry Roy. Miserable *%^@.

Wright wasn’t taking the piss out of an Irish accent he was imitating Keane’s portentous “final” from before which is why they’re all laughing so much.

Keane deserves it 100% and the laughter was great. TBH I thought Wright was restrained in not using the obvious retort to Keanes jibe about never having been to the World Cup finals.

It’s almost pathological!!! If you’re not a “Celt” you definitely qualify for honourary membership.

You’re probably just missing Sergio “more sinned against than sinning” Ramos right?

Roy Keane is the sort of guy that wakes up in the morning and falls out with his cornflakes

If he won the postcode lottery he'd moan about the size of the cheque

It takes a special type of wanker to walk out on his team from a World Cup finals

Lets just say Ingerlund is not my country of origin. And surely any football lover would miss a player of Sergio's quality

1) That is actually a serious relief. Bromley is so quintessentially England that I feared your self-loathing would end up destroying you.

2) I would crowdfund any player who nearing retirement wanted one last payday for breaking one of Sergio Ramos's legs.

I am curious as to your origin now but would not be so indelicate as to ask - does the King of Trolls have a specific nationality it's a puzzle.

By the way, Dejan "humble" Lovren was seen belting out a song by a bunch of Croatian fascists just after their win over Argentina #justsayin'

Forget the final, it annoys me that those English flakes *%^@** up the chance to send those Ustashe wankers back home...

My dad, an engineer, moved the family down South (a very long time ago) as the shipping industry collapsed on the Clyde. Despite dire warnings from the family about how the English hated us and how the move 'wasn't fair on the children' we were welcomed warmly and my elderly parents are still here in Sussex, and my son was warmly cheering England last night.
However, all the stick I took at school during the annual fixture with the Auld Enemy has meant that my love of England and the English doesn't extend to the football team. I'm a lot less rabid about it now than I once was however

McTroll huh?

That’s interesting. My affection for the England team has blown hot and cold over the years. But when it was cold it was because they were horrible wankers and not because they were English. I support Wales at rugby. But some of the anti-England stuff I have seen in Wales is just embarrassing and unpleasant. To be fair it tends to be restricted mostly to sport unlike your mob. Friend of mine who went to work in Scotland- a tolerant and amiable bloke - found it unbearable and left in the end. Maybe not typical but still really depressing in this day and age.

Sadly what you say is true - some seriously unpleasant behaviour goes on up there, my Aunt was part of some group of idiots who were on 'white settler watch' some while back - basically harassing English people who moved up there. A shameful business.
A bit of gentle friendly fun about the football is more my level. Unless the bloody Americans get involved, obviously.

Sabir has told me that today is Steve Williams' 60th birthday. DOB 12th July 1958.

Thanks for sharing Bromley, I have a bit of experience with this stuff. I have 1 English parent and 1 from a huge Scottish family so I’m not a pure blood but consider myself dual nationality but mostly English.

Basically growing up I had Scottish uncles calling me an English b****** (not vitriolically but still) because I lived in the south and supported arsenal and my English family wouldn’t have barely understood it if I explained it to them.

When it comes to World Cup I always support all the teams in the UK and Ireland and actually when Ireland in particular don’t qualify I always think the tournament misses something.

Love Scotland which is the most beautiful country in this island and it has amazing people there with real values that people don’t possess in the south but in my opinion it has a massive problem with overt nationalism and sectarianism in the most illogical way. I find it depressing so you can imagine my thoughts during the indie referendum

Great player. Strange to think apart from Arsenal he made such little impact

Beautiful country for sure, some lovely people too but some aspects that are not so appealing. The Old Firm derby is something to behold - was 6 when my uncle first took me. Nobody in the crowd paying too much attention to the carnage going on on the pitch, too busy hurling abuse at one another. I was too young to understand the songs but vividly remember the sea of Union Jacks at one end and Irish flags at the other. My dad refused to buy me a Rangers kit (he also refused an invite to join the local lodge) so my first kit was Greenock Morton.

Not at all. You can see that Keane likes Wrighty. He has an incredible drive to win. Clearly, he takes it too far to the extent that he probably never actually truly enjoyed all his successes with Man U. He was dead right when he said that England had missed a huge opportunity.

He was a right a****** in his early 20s and I thought he was totally out of order at the 2002 world cup. But he's not the psychotic ball of rage the media portray. He's a also far more interesting than 90% of the ex-pros pretending to be pundits.

You have a point there. Neville and Keane definitely get on and Neville was laughing the most and urging Wright to do his impersonation of Keane. That's also why I don't think for a moment it was Keane's Irishness being mocked but Keane's Keaneness. Wright's laughter was also not especially snide, it all felt quite natural. Keane also knew he had to play the straight guy there and did - especially funny was when he told Wright off like a naughty kid at the end.

Wright definitely wasn't mocking his Irish accent. The joke was about Roy. They obviously had a few laughs off camera. Keane can be very funny too. When Scholes first turned up as a pundit, Keane was on Irish radio doing a general interview about the Irish team, Man U, the PL etc. He was asked about Scholes the pundit and said when he was a player Scholes did everything possible to avoid media interviews and now all of a sudden you can't shut him.up. He said it with his trademark wtf is that all about tone too.

Do I bang on about it like a childhood moral choice? Sure I've mentioned it but if your comment was true, wouldn't I have mentioned my reasons more? I was once asked what the reason was so explained it, from memory once. I don't think that's banging on.