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Post #305641  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:41 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Rich wrote:
I have today there were times tonight when a final cross or pass was relatively simple and we messed it up. These were moments I would expect a decent championship level player to get right 8/10 times. So often it seems to me that arsenal players are very good at playing 5-10 yard passes with a first touch but ask them to dribble, shield a ball, cross a ball, shoot with power and accuracy, shoot at all! And they look like they haven’t really played football at the top level at all.


One man to blame for all these. Good riddance that he is finally leaving.


Didn't watch the game, I knew the result

I did get texts from mates though which I'll read

"Ramsey captain material second half ". (I agree I'm starting to think Wenger wasted him" )

"Chambers did well" ( I really rate Chambers )

"Typical Wenger performance "

"It's over mate"


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Post #305642  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
socrates wrote:
We had numerous great situations tonight but our final ball was atrocious, that's not down to great defending its down to poor decisionmaking and poor execution of relatively routine tasks.

I think you're making it sound way too easy. First of all, their defensive organization makes some crosses look poor simply because they deal with them effectively. Second, it's not like they have all the time in the world to take aim and hit any number of available Arsenal players. Some of the crosses were really poor but if it was that easy Atlético would've conceded a lot more goals this season.


Do other La Liga teams have as much possession and as many great situations as we have had over the two legs though?


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Post #305643  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:47 pm 
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socrates wrote:
dec wrote:
When it comes to defending, they are worldbeaters. They are the best defensive team in the world, and have been for several years. Arsenal put in a decent effort tonight but couldn't break them down. Godin was superb. Watching the CL games in the last few weeks, Godin is like a player from another era. Atletico are farire than just a defence too. Gabi and Koke are very good midfielders while Costa and Griezmann are world class.


We had numerous great situations tonight but our final ball was atrocious, that's not down to great defending its down to poor decisionmaking and poor execution of relatively routine tasks. Why do Monreal and Bellerin underhit and overhit so many crosses? If they can't cross then why have them as overlapping fullbacks because ultimately they are the main crossers in the team and both are average crossers at best.

Monreal and Bellerin both have good engines and get up and down the pitch but are both pretty poor at both ends.

Monreal has contributed a lot this season offensively but he had a terrible game tonight. It happens. Bellerin had a few poor crosses but a lot of the balls across the box were defended really well by Atletico.

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Post #305644  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

As I've stated previously, Özil in the side slows the team down. And he has been less effective for a long time. Wenger again relied heavily on a man who is either past it, or unwillingly to bring on his best.

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Post #305645  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Monreal has scored some goals this season but he's not a great crosser of the ball. So often he gets into good crossing positions and hits a poor ball in, usually a low one that hits the first defender although tonight he was massively overhitting some as well.


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Post #305646  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:51 pm 

I've become a fan of Monreal but the only positive thing I can say about him tonight is that he wasn't quite as bad as Bellerin. Ospina being employed as a professional goalkeeper is like the world's ugliest woman being employed as a supermodel. I'm afraid that I think Hazuki was being way over-optimistic about Koscielny having another good year or two in him if we sign another central defender who could organise him, like I believe Mertesacker used to. Even if we did, my guess is he's close to being finished due to injury problems.

Very disappointing result. But at least Wenger's nearly gone. Good riddance you old git.


  
 
 
Post #305647  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Given we just lost a European semi final I'm nowhere near as disappointed as I should be. We got knocked out by a better team who were incredibly well organised, and unfortunately we just lacked the requisite quality to turn our promising positions into something more threatening. I think we missed Giroud given the amount of crosses we played to little effect. For a game of this magnitude, Özil was disappointingly ineffective. All grace and poise on the ball yet was unable to break down their water tight defensive formation.


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Post #305648  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

Özil has been one of our best offensive players this season and Sanchez was desperate to leave. What are you on about?


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Post #305649  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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I think we all have to agree the balance of the side is just not right. We tried but its hard to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I wouldn't question the effort tonight, far from it I thought the players put a shift in and actually played quite well. It's just the two ends of the pitch that let us down and have been doing for a long time.


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Post #305650  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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From F365. Some should be sold this summer, but plenty need a helping hand rather than a push out the door. There is talent in this squad, but someone needs to coax it out of them. With the right manager and a handful of suitable signings, Arsenal can become relevant again

Become relevant again. That’s exactly how it feels


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Post #305651  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:56 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
I think you're making it sound way too easy. First of all, their defensive organization makes some crosses look poor simply because they deal with them effectively. Second, it's not like they have all the time in the world to take aim and hit any number of available Arsenal players. Some of the crosses were really poor but if it was that easy Atlético would've conceded a lot more goals this season.


Do other La Liga teams have as much possession and as many great situations as we have had over the two legs though?

Barcelona have struggled to break them down, let alone a relatively weak Arsenal side.

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Post #305652  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:56 pm 
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If he’s ruptured his achilles, as it seems he has, Koscielny is unlikely to play for 8-10 months. The new Manager’s plans won’t include Kos.


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Post #305653  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:

Özil has been one of our best offensive players this season


On occasions he has been, Haz, but on too many other occasions, he hasn’t.

Keown accused him of hiding tonight.


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Post #305654  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
I'm afraid that I think Hazuki was being way over-optimistic about Koscielny having another good year or two in him if we sign another central defender who could organise him, like I believe Mertesacker used to. Even if we did, my guess is he's close to being finished due to injury problems.

To be fair, I said that before he went and ruptured his achilles! Think he might be done at this level now.


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Post #305655  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:04 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I think we all have to agree the balance of the side is just not right. We tried but its hard to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I wouldn't question the effort tonight, far from it I thought the players put a shift in and actually played quite well. It's just the two ends of the pitch that let us down and have been doing for a long time.

I completely agree with regard to the balance of the team. Defensively we are very disorganised and added to that, we have Mustafi who is basically just a bad defender. I think we have a lot going for us in terms of attackers. Midfield is dysfunctional though. Ramsey is good but we need two more high quality midfielders to go with him.

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Post #305656  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:10 pm 

gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

To be fair Sanchez wouldn't have stayed at Arsenal if we'd paid him way more than Özil. Sanchez had decided to go, full stop.


  
 
 
Post #305657  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

To be fair Sanchez wouldn't have stayed at Arsenal if we'd paid him way more than Özil. Sanchez had decided to go, full stop.

Indeed, and he has done very little at Man Utd.

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Post #305658  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Feel bad for Kos missing the World Cup. He’s obviously been playing through the pain and on the edge with that Achilles for some time. The constant injury problem has clearly taken his level down dramatically this season.

Chambers, holding and Mavropanos have long deals but a minimum of 2 senior CB are required in the summer.

Kos will miss 6 months with an Achilles year. Not as long as a knee tear and far easier to recover from and should be no long standing issues related to the tear. Ive done both and I’d take an Achilles year over a knee injury any day


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Post #305659  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:28 pm 
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You have to wonder how many of this squad will be here next season?

I struggle to see much to really build a squad around. Some good players in attack but woefully unbalanced with all the players playing centrally.

How we could have done with a natural wide left player tonight to attack the rookie RB


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Post #305660  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Rich wrote:
You have to wonder how many of this squad will be here next season?

I struggle to see much to really build a squad around. Some good players in attack but woefully unbalanced with all the players playing centrally.

How we could have done with a natural wide left player tonight to attack the rookie RB


A fair few will be because you can’t get rid of too many in one transfer window, too much upheaval. But look at the squad 12 -18 months on and it will be very different


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Post #305661  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:19 am 
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Goonie wrote:
Rich wrote:
From F365. Some should be sold this summer, but plenty need a helping hand rather than a push out the door. There is talent in this squad, but someone needs to coax it out of them. With the right manager and a handful of suitable signings, Arsenal can become relevant again

Become relevant again. That’s exactly how it feels


I always believe we have a good squad. The outs should be Mertesacker, Cazorla and Koscielny. If they are replaced with players like when they were in their prime, we'd be very strong again.

Plus Ospina out if we can get a new GK.

The words 'out' along with players names and its shocking Mustafi's name isnt' anywhere in the preceding two posts...lolol. I'd Keep Kos before I keep Mustafi, and I really want to get rid of Kos.

I don't know the details of Cazorla's contract but as long as he's been out, surely he's kept on for sympathetic reasons.

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Post #305662  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:24 am 
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This match, no, this tie, is a reminder of why Wenger had to go. Completely winnable with the red card and the players come out in the second leg without much indication that it wasn't only about the possibility of playing CL football next season, a European cup final but also sentimental reasons. And Wenger couldn't get them up for it.

He simply can't motivate them anywhere near consistent enough to win much. Literally the only thing left to play for is to keep Burnley at bay.

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Post #305663  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:51 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

Özil has been one of our best offensive players this season and Sanchez was desperate to leave. What are you on about?


If Wenger had not been anal with Alexis, he would not have been gunning to leave. Alexis rightfully called out on the lack of attitude in the team. Wenger closed ranks with his softies and Alexis lost heart from there on. I blame Wenger for keeping the culture, thus keeping a team of softies lacking in fight. Özil has not been effective for months already. He had his change of heart too. He stayed on because Wenger gave him the bumper deal. But see what he dishes out?

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Post #305664  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:55 am 
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Xhaka and Özil have a gulf of difference in ability. Xhaka is playing far closer to his talent than Özil is. The sense of urgency for the squad was no where close to what it should be. Attacking players went missing at times. Lacazette was sometimes the only one willing to mix it up around the 6 yard box. Welbeck, a striker, supposed to have that selfish, striker's instinct seemed scared of the responsibility too often.

Of course Özil is going to have the ball and cover ground, he's supposed to be the best talent on the pitch for both sides. Arsenal goes through him for its set up so he's supposed to cover some distance. He was lackadaisical. It wasn't just just Keown, pretty much ever former pro pundit echoed similar thoughts.

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Post #305665  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:24 am 
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After a 1-1 draw with Burnley this weekend. “I think we suffered a little bit mentally from the big disappointment from Thursday”


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Post #305666  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:48 am 
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Wenger’s send off against Burnley is going to be awful. I think there will be a lot of the crowd who may leave before the ‘lap of appreciation’ and everything that goes with wenger’s last home game.


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Post #305667  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:46 am 
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Imo Özil is always ineffective when he stays on the right. He should be on the left halfway into their end from where he usually distributes good balls.

Why is he told to stay deep on the right? Is he there to help Bellerin because he doesn't do much other than act as a link man?

Does nobody else see this?


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Post #305668  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:47 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I'm afraid that I think Hazuki was being way over-optimistic about Koscielny having another good year or two in him if we sign another central defender who could organise him, like I believe Mertesacker used to. Even if we did, my guess is he's close to being finished due to injury problems.

To be fair, I said that before he went and ruptured his achilles! Think he might be done at this level now.

It does seem that so many of our players drop off a cliff with either form and/or injuries when they reach 31-32 ish. There are plenty of clubs who manage to get players playing well in to their mid 30’s l, they are declining but not at such a dramatic rate, and these clubs get good minutes out of these players who prove valuable squad members.

It seems a far cry from when wenger arrived and he was credited with adding at least 2 years to the back 4


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Post #305669  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:49 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Imo Özil is always ineffective when he stays on the right. He should be on the left halfway into their end from where he usually distributes good balls.

Why is he told to stay deep on the right? Is he there to help Bellerin because he doesn't do much other than act as a link man?

Does nobody else see this?

The whole shape of the team has been unbalanced for years. Wenger has built a completely unbalanced squad. Bellerin has had to be RB, RWB and right-wing for 90% of games he’s played in the last couple of years. When we played a proper 4-3-3 with wide forwards he was far more effective.


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Post #305670  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:02 am 
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Keown is out of order coating Özil when he's sucked arsenes Wally for years.

Özil needs to be played as a free spirit in the centre not wide where he would have a responsibility to track back, everyone with a brain knows this.


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Post #305671  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:28 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Keown is out of order coating Özil when he's sucked arsenes Wally for years.

Özil needs to be played as a free spirit in the centre not wide where he would have a responsibility to track back, everyone with a brain knows this.

Too many ex Wenger players from the early years have refused to criticise him. They see him as a father figure who was brilliant. Well he was once but if you’re going to be a pundit you have to call things thruthfully, you don’t have to be rude, any idiot can see that it has been wenger’s refusal to change and address our weaknesses as the biggest reason for our decline.


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Post #305672  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:31 am 
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Looking forward to ridding ourselves of the useless excuse we call a manager. His lap of appreciation is going to be interesting with nobody in the ground and if the club intend on giving him the comments book the fans will be writing on in the armoury then they will need a lot of tipp exx


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Post #305673  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:31 am 
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The difference between Liverpool and arsenal and this Klopp and Wenger in the last two years is remarkable. When Klopp took over we were easily ahead of Liverpool, we simply had a far better squad.the two teams have accelerated in opposite directions since and now you have a Liverpool team in a champions league final on a virtual £0 net spend and already have a superb CM lined up to address one of their weaker areas. They play with verve, excitement and have a clear strategy and tactics. Wenger has not just been holding us back these past few years he’s been laying the foundations for years in the wilderness


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Post #305674  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:46 am 
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DHD wrote:
On occasions he has been, Haz, but on too many other occasions, he hasn’t.

Keown accused him of hiding tonight.

I'd absolutely agree that he disappears sometimes, but would disagree strongly with Keown about last night. I think it has become an easy narrative for pundits to talk about how Özil needs to 'step up'. He's a pure playmaker, to a certain extent we need a functional team around him to get the best out of him. He's not an Henry or van Persie who'll just win games out of nothing.

What I would say about Özil last night is I think his final ball was not up to his usual standard. Most of the time when he gets the chance he'll play it perfectly, but last night he had a couple of good opportunities and didn't get it right.


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Post #305675  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:52 am 
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We all know what you get with Özil. A supremely graceful footballer who will create goal scoring chances but wont impose himself on a game or get stuck in. The thing that I find weird is the amount of games he misses due to 'illness'.


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Post #305676  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:52 am 
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Rich wrote:
Wenger has not just been holding us back these past few years he’s been laying the foundations for years in the wilderness

Way too early for this type of doomsday scenario, in my opinion. We're in better shape than Liverpool were before Klopp. Just look at their squad from 2014/15, only top class players they had were Coutinho, Sterling and a 43-year old Gerrard.

All depends on whether we get the right guy in of course, but there's a lot of potential in this squad waiting to be released.


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Post #305677  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:58 am 
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lomekian wrote:

Ultimately we were beaten by the only team bettter than us in the tournament who were among the favourites for the champions league before two freak results demoted them. And on balance we probably should have beaten them. Typical Arsenal of the latter Wenger period, except last years cup final.

Looking ahead we need at least one, possibly 2 centre backs, another goalkeeper, a proper wide player who can cross and a midfielder with althleticism and defensive capacity, unless AMN is ready to step up.

I do think that alongside someone like Kante or Gilberto, Xhaka would be a much better player and less exposed.


That's the point I was trying to make last night, people are lauding this great Athletico side but I thought over the two legs we should have gone through. We had numerous chances and great situations but failed to capitalise, mainly due to some really poor finishing and some atrocious final balls. Our defending was just as calamitous as always but I thought our quality in the final third was also piss poor.

Even last night we had umpteen opportunities to really test their back four with some quality crosses but failed to do so. Crosses are a percentage thing really, if you can hit the corridor of uncertainty between the 6 yard box and the penalty spot enough times with quality and get bodies in the box then eventually something will fall for you. United did it for years with supreme quality from wide areas from the likes of Beckham and Giggs and players prepared to bust a gut to get in the box. Even Neville was a great crosser from right back.


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Post #305678  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:00 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Rich wrote:
Wenger has not just been holding us back these past few years he’s been laying the foundations for years in the wilderness

Way too early for this type of doomsday scenario, in my opinion. We're in better shape than Liverpool were before Klopp. Just look at their squad from 2014/15, only top class players they had were Coutinho, Sterling and a 43-year old Gerrard.

All depends on whether we get the right guy in of course, but there's a lot of potential in this squad waiting to be released.


This Sven guy appears to be a pretty savvy operator, let's hope he can unearth some hidden gems in the way Wenger did in his early years.


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Post #305679  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:04 am 
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and so what are we left with - a bland, soulless stadium - a cartoon club badge - a bunch of misfits on the pitch - look after the values of the club - you have no *%^@*** idea what they are wenger - I though Özil did alright last night and just when Wilshire was starting to find his touch and passes he was taken off - we were here long before you wenger and we'll be here when you're gone - *%^@ off...

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Post #305680  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:04 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
DHD wrote:
On occasions he has been, Haz, but on too many other occasions, he hasn’t.

Keown accused him of hiding tonight.

I'd absolutely agree that he disappears sometimes, but would disagree strongly with Keown about last night. I think it has become an easy narrative for pundits to talk about how Özil needs to 'step up'. He's a pure playmaker, to a certain extent we need a functional team around him to get the best out of him. He's not an Henry or van Persie who'll just win games out of nothing.

What I would say about Özil last night is I think his final ball was not up to his usual standard. Most of the time when he gets the chance he'll play it perfectly, but last night he had a couple of good opportunities and didn't get it right.


I think Özil was the least of our concerns last night. He wasn't amazing but he wasn't totally shite either. I was more concerned by the lack of quality from many of the players around him.


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