Afternoon dec. I'm surprised you wrote that about any of the three, including Bellerin. At last week's Q&A Lee Dixon, who I suggest would know far more about what it takes to be a full back than any of us, said words to the effect that Bellerin has gone downhill from the player he was when he first came into the side. From memory one thing he said was that Bellerin now does his 'head in'.

Dixon put it down to below par training, not him being crap. Lee even said he would be willing to train Arsenal's full backs on a part-time basis himself. In short, he thinks they need it. Poor training, at least on the face of it, may contribute to what I've been calling Wengerisation, as well as things like a lack of organisation.

However, I believe Bellerin has tons of potential and I'd hate to see Barcelona get him, if they do still want him. Also, despite what I see as his decline, I would still want him to be picked for important games. The most important games we have left this season are in my view those in the Europa League, albeit I think it would take a balls up of such huge proportions to get knocked out against Milan, Thursday's game doesn't strike me as that crucial. So if he's fit and available I want him to be picked for Europa League games after Thursday.

Regarding the others, has Holding been as good as he looked last season? I wasn't totally convinced by him last season but I think he's been worse this one. I also think Iowbi looks worse than he did when he first came into the team.

So in fact you see two reasons.

"I would loov it, just loov it" if City win the title at Man Utd on April 7th.

Crazy fixtures. We finally get a good run together and after Thursdays game we played our next game on April 1st over two weeks later.

If mcGuane thinks getting into the barca midfield is easier than getting into Arsenal's he's an idiot. I can understand the move in terms of trying to get the best footballing education.

As for Nelson, his contract situation is a concern, but he'd be pretty foolish to leave given that Wenger is already giving him minutes and involving him in the match squad, and out of the big European clubs, Arsenal have given more opportunities to young players than anyone of the same size over the last decade. He should particularly consider the fact that as a winger, Arsenal are a club who have sold two wingers in 8 months, and now have no natural wingers in the squad. He is nailed on to get games if we progress in the Europa League as Wenger will prioritise and rotate more domestically.

Damn right. Wenger's stubbornness and unwillingness to devolve control is a MASSIVE issue and has been for a decade, but he would not have accumulated such power if his early achievements and mid-period keeping us competitive weren't such major successes.

Worthwhile observations. I too think Wenger has changed. He tried to tactically get ahead of the game, but has backed the wrong horse on that one. He didn't seem to realise that to imitate Barcelona but with elements of the old Arsenal style, you need really really really excellent footballers, and even Cesc, for his precocious genius, is not a Iniesta, Messi or Xavi. Subsequently in recent years he's tried to re-jig the team, but instead has given us a lack of any discernible identity or pattern to our play.

I also think he has lost some of his mojo as a person. There is a reason we have a retirement age. No matter how sharp the mind, how much one has learnt, there are certain qualities, such as physical energy and an ability to really connect with young people that do in general diminish over time, and it is much easier to see that from the outside.

Most of us have had a parent age and struggle to adjust to the fact that certain things that were almost second nature get slightly more difficult, long before any significant physical decline. There are certain things I can't do quite as well as I did when I joined SGF 18 years ago, for all the knowledge and wisdom and expertise I may have gained. In the same time, it is inevitable that Wenger has gained in some areas and lost in others.

Wenger sold Vieira and tried to redesign the team around Cesc. It didn't quite work. Why not? Because Cesc wasn't quite good enough? Was Cesc really not as good as Xavi? Or because we had horrible luck with injuries in that period? We look back and try to find reasons, but I think a lot of what happen in sport is luck. More specifically, bad luck.

As for your second point: I completely agree. A lot of the old zest and zing had gone and I don't even miss it. If I had anything like Wenger's money I would retire immediately and fade away gracefully. Evidently Wenger is more a 'Rage, rage against the dying of the light', rather than a "bring the sundowners and turn down the sheets" sort of bloke.

Luck certainly plays a big role and Ferguson had it in spades. We were very unlucky with injuries in 2008 and in Chelsea and Man Utd that season, we were competing against two of the strongest sides of the premier league era. As for your question "Was Cesc really not as good as Xavi?", in my view, it isn't even close. Xavi was the greatest creative midfielder of his generation. Better than Pirlo and Scholes. Fabregas was good but not at that level.

I am with you on the retire and take it easy approach. Wenger was a very good judge of when a player should call time on his career but he can't seem to apply the same to his own managerial abilities.

I've no doubt that Bellerin would benefit from better coaching. After all, he is very young. He is frequently all on his own defending that right flank though, so the set-up of the midfield is a factor. I really think he is a better player now. He was very exciting when he first broke into the team, but that was always going to be a honeymoon period. A bit like AMN now (the MOTD analysis on Sunday did a piece highlighting his qualities but never mentioned the penalty!!) I think he has matured into a good fullback, whose use of the ball is less flash but better. In the proper set-up he could be superb.

Holding has really struggled this season. It happens. There are signs that he is coming out the other side of it.

yeah but that's because you might actually have something else going on in your life Decaf .

Work to feed the family , pay the bills , take the kids to soccer , rugby on Saturday etc etc , life is pretty much programmed by necessity .

Suddenly along comes retirement ; for some it's like a train running full tilt into a siding buffer .... faced with this awful void

...." What do I do now " they struggle .

I'm sure Arsene falls into that category .

Man U need 2 goals in 15 mins or they're out.
As I write Sevilla get their second. Looks all over now.
Mourinho's negative tactics haven't worked.

Sanchez out of Europe..................

Mkhi still in till the day after tomorrow at least.

Only 4 shots on target over the 2 games.

Spoke to some Man U fans and they are annoyed at how poor Sanchez has been. Kept saying he drops too deep, holds on to the ball too much and gives it away too regularly. Couldn’t help but give them a wry smile.

At least when he did that with us last season he also banged in 30 goals and won games on his own.

Man U bought Sanchez to try to solve a problem they didn’t have and it’s made them worse.

Mourinho has been punished for his negative tactics.

More important Mourinho's days at Utd will start counting down. The board will soon be asking questions. He has spent a fairly large amount of money and his tactics ofdefence defence defence find him out. I am not sure it is what the fans want at Utd in relation to attacking football.

As for Alexis I let it go along time ago.

Really enjoying wishing the Mancs Yedder luck next year.

His press conference will be enough for a large number of the fans to turn on Mourinho.

"I've sat in this chair twice before, with Porto - Man Utd out, with Real Madrid - Man Utd out, so this is nothing new for this football club."

He really doesn't give a *%^@.

Nzonzi very good again for Seville tonight, always impressed with him and would definitely take him in our team

No he doesn't care, but the good thing is that if they keep him for another year he will start personal attacks on players and spend a lot more money hopefully without a trophy. Don't want them to win the FA Cup. Hope he brings total chaos to their club.

Quite agree. There is a reason why no one did any of things for several decades.

Also not only is the Alonso story about £500k long discredited as nonsense, but lest we forget Chamakh was never meant to be the main man, and lest we forget had the best start to his arsenal career of any striker since Ian Wright. He was never going to be brilliant, but his career was fecked by that horrible blackmailing business that totally destroyed his confidence.

People love to claim that without the old back 5 Wenger was nothing, but its revisionist nonsense. How many were in the team when we went unbeaten? How many were around when we got the Champion's League final, setting a new defensive record in the process (only to be shafted due to an offside equaliser and a crap back up keeper)? How many were around in 07-08 where we were the best team in the country by a mile until we literally ran out of players due to an appalling injury list (largely the result of horrible cynical tackles)?

I don't know TG constantly tries to destroy Wenger's prior achievements and diminish the man.

He was stupendously great for a few years. Then he was really quite good all things considered. Then he was Ok. Now he's a bit crap.

I don't see why the first sentence has to be viewed as mutually exclusive to the last. Nothing is constant. To live is to change. To suggest otherwise denies the point of life itself. Even Bernard's stance on Ljungberg has softened!

Or maybe playing Welbeck with his trophy winning experience, excellent international goal ratio, fantastic work rate and positional flexibility, when he desperately needs game time and confidence for our Europa League run was a greater priority than giving an 18 year old who will only be turned to realistically in an injury crisis a few minutes.

You can hate Wenger all you like, but giving Welbeck minutes was the obvious choice for multiple reasons.

Bellerin is still an excellent player who has been affected by a few injuries, but mostly a total lack of support. When he and Walcott played together last season, they were an excellent partnership til Theo got his injury. Sure his form fluctuates, and the team's struggles have affected him, but when people say he's no good, they are clearly too stupid to be encouraged to offer further opinion.

Iwobi has a lot of gifts, but a lot of flaws. His position is still a question mark. He was never super hyped as a kid. He shouldn't play as much as he is in a club of our size, but with him, so much is confidence. His shooting technique is poor though.

Holding is a player who made a MASSIVE step up - and like most young centre backs, really needs a senior partner on their game alongside him at times. Parachuting a kid into our defense at the mo is almost cruel, given the total lack of cover they get.

Bellerin would be snapped up a European super club the minute we put him up for sale. Iwobi is a work in progress who is worthy of a squad place, but further down the order, and really needs to work out a best position. Holding is fine as a 4th choice centre-half with the potential to improve, which is what he should be, and probably will be next season.

You do realise that most of Ferguson's youth team players played a LOT more than those you claim have been overplayed.

G Nev - 1st season 27 games in all comps aged 19. 2nd season = Utd's undisputed 1st choice RB (39 games aged 20).
Beckham - 10 games (mostly in the cup as 19 year old) in season 1. Season 2 - 40 games
Giggs - 2 games in 90/91 as a 17 year old. 51 games the following season.
Scholes first two seasons - 25 games, 31 games
P Nev - 34 games then 24
N Butt - 35 games then 41 games.

The truth is literally the polar opposite of what you wrote.

Injuries and lack of funds were a factor, but no....Cesc wasn't as good as Xavi, who is the best passer of through balls I have seen in my life, bar perhaps Dennis. Also, lets face it, Barca were great, but most of their domination is down to Messi. Playing that kind of football is a lot easier with a generational genius. The guy isn't a striker, but by the age of 30 he has 600 career goals and about half as many assists. To think, his family were in discussion with Wenger when we got Cesc....

How much has Mourinho spent there? £500m ish in 2 years, on an already expensively assembled squad? Such a terrible shame his tactics no longer work at the top level either...

Be fair, he left donkey's years ago so what's the point in talking about him these days? I don't think my main point was that extreme anyway. I called him mediocre, and I stand by that as I think some, maybe even many, grossly over-rate him. He was a good finisher but was otherwise fairly ordinary. He's a bit like Walcott in a way. Namely, largely dependent on one big strength. Pace with Theo, finishing with. Ljungberg.

Believe it or not, I consider him a legend, albeit a relatively mediocre player in many ways.

I think this is very pertinent. Arsenal are lucky they didn't want to let him go to City. What is surprising is that so far he's been appreciably worse in terms of output for Utd than he was for us, even this season when he didn't want to be here. And Mkhitaryan, who is clearly not the same level of player in terms of potential impact has been involved in more goals this season as primary assist maker or scorer, despite the fact he was mostly a sub at utd.

Martial on the left was giving Utd SO much more than Sanchez has.

There's a chance!

Sánchez signed a 4½ year contract with United to June 2022 that is worth around £600,000 a week once a £20 million signing on fee, bonuses and image rights are factored in. It makes him comfortably the highest paid player in Premier League history. Total contract value £140m.

Other players agents are knocking on the door.

Wouldn't it be great if he was as disaster for them!

Its amazing how much he has improved as a player since leaving Sam Allerdyce behind!

Wasn't actually aiming that at you...more a memory of days past. Actually though, you prove my point. Donkey's years ago. TG is suggesting Wenger is exactly the same now as then. 21 and a half years is a LONG time....

I'm sure the AST said last week that Özil's new deal is worth 200m Euros. That's just over £177m.

It would take me a while to recover because I would be laughing so hard.

I would not be shocked if Chelsea beat Barca in tomorrows game.

I agree. Xavi was superb. My point (and obviously Wengers thinking) was that Cesc was at that level. Also, if Xavi hadn't been around and Cesc had played with Iniesta and Messi in his formative years instead of being allowed to become the prima donna at Arsenal, he might have approached Xavi's level of effectiveness.

(The only reason I mentioned Xavi is that it would be ridiculous to compare Cesc to Iniesta let alone Messi ... )

How can you have Per Mertesacker taking a role at the academy but choose to not utilise the experience of Tony Adams or Martin Keown who are arsenal through and through. It just makes zero sense

I think it was Rich who posted about Man Utd fans and Sanchez. Frankly, Man Utd fans are spoiled kids. If you don't come in and are Pele, they have an issue. Sanchez is fine, he'll figure out Mourinho's system. They got him for nothing. Shouldn't be complaining about anything. Can't take Man Utd fans opinion on anything regarding their squad because they are what you guys call 'blinkered' .

So the off season nonsense has started.
http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/12/arsenal-r ... s-7382377/

Lets get rid of our youngest defender to fund buying whom ? 3 players for 50mil.