To be fair, the Mail supported the fascists in the 30s and have been linked to some fairly far right lot periodically over the intervening years. Its interesting how much they tailor some of their web content differently to printed news content

The Sun ebb and flow but are nastier than ever at the moment, and are producing miniscule apologies for lies on a weekly basis at the moment. The express is just miserable and mean spirited in every way, quite apart from party politics or racism. Unless writing about the royal family it is an almost unrelenting barrage of fear and division.

Also, I'm not sure he was saying that everyone who reads them is racist. I used to listen to a lot of hip hop in the 90s, but I've never been a misogynist, a homophobe, a violent criminal or indeed an American. But some people who are into hip hop are drawn towards those elements that have been prevalent for a long time.

From the photos I've seen of her, she always looked white.

For f***S sake I am not peddling anything. You are as bad as Daz.
https://www.thelocal.se/20130924/50396
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06 ... rrectness/
https://sputniknews.com/europe/20151218 ... rrectness/

and the best one

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its- ... -shameful/

All this on top of Swedes whom I have met who are hugely uncomfortable with open door immigrant policy Sweden has been subjected to but they feel they can't say that.

You sure didn't say I wasn't.

2) You haven't used the phrase ' scroungers', but you have linked to and supported articles espousing that view and have complained about ' benefits-lifers' on a few occasions.




Policy is set by politicians not by civil servants.



So you have no proof just a general feeling. Not helped I'll bet by people deciding to label me.

Ok enough politics. I am off and I hope to return to talk bout football. That is why I have dropped in here for the last 18 odd years.

Not sure what I'm supposed to say about a bunch of links to opinion pieces, but this quote of yours really sums it up. It doesn't matter that it's obviously ok to debate immigration because IT IS BEING DEBATED CONSTANTLY - some people feel like they can't speak their mind and so there must be something wrong.

Well, I feel that people are afraid to share their views because they know racism is looked down upon. And as proof I can provide you with as many links as you want to people who share my view - and from people with a lot more credibility than Breitbart.

Well that's ironic.

Well said. Racism is sometimes blatant and sometimes subtle. I've only experienced it up front and to my face maybe three or four times. I've overheard things a number of times, but not masses. But it was an almost weekly source of amusement when people would come to the office and always assume that the project manager with the lengthy emails and good speaking voice was one of the white guys. Or awkward moments meeting the extended family of girlfriends...that half-pause...or well meaning people avoiding topics at dinner parties because there was someone of another ethnicity in the room.

Frankly, my capacity with the English language, my accent, my cultural pursuits and sporting interests are more stereotypically English than the vast majority of Caucasian looking people, but I still have to answer the ' where are you from? ...No, where are you FROM?' question well over a hundred times every year. Sometimes being a bit exotic can be useful, but its often a massive pain in the rear, particularly as I'm so bloody culturally British in almost every way!

Can't trust those Greeks! I should know, I've got so bloody many as friends!

The only person who brought up all Mail readers being racist was Gunfire in a worse pivot than Trump! I read the sport in the Mail online a fair bit. Some of their coverage is good. I wouldn't pay them a penny to read the paper, but even if I did, it wouldn't make me a racist or a racist sympathiser, despite the paper's history with Mosely, Enoch Powell (bloody hypocrite) and UKIP.

BTW which of the Islands are the adopted Caribbeans from? I've got family all over the shop down there...

London (via a bastardisation of a Jamaican/US hybrid street slang, that has evolved massively over the last 20 years). I've never heard anyone talk like that form anywhere else in the world. It will be interesting to see which bits bleed into common parlance and dictionaries over time.

Would you feel happier if we used the term racial discrimination rather than racism?

According to the 1965 UN International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination:

'the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.'

Although of course all racial discrimination is, by definition, dependent on holding racist attitudes.

Youngest son in law a graphic designer son of a Trinidadian father (psychiatrist) and Swiss mother (nurse). Quite a mix huh......

I think you are viewing far-right in a different way to many others. What many people feel is that in response to UKIP a number of policy ideas that would previously have been limited to the super extremists you outline are increasingly bleeding into the mainstream.

If it was just greater immigration controls do you really think so many people would be freaked out?

You want facts? The number of racially and religiously aggravated offences recorded by police in July was 41% higher than in the same month in 2015, and that was after a 42% spike in June. I can't find the figures but their was a significant increase in August too.

The fact is, the UK has become more racist in general and far right groups have grown in both membership and boldness over the last year. And that's completely ignoring the rhetoric delivered by Theresa May and Farage's quite scandalous poster of middle-eastern refugees in a vote about EU membership, basically using fear of brown people in a vote about the EU.

The Far right may not be on the march in a 1930s sense, but England feels very tangibly a less tolerant and less safe place if you aren't British or don't look British according to massively outdated prejudices.

Time will tell, and I've been reassuring people that the bubble of hatred that has spilled out will subside before too long, but The Sun, The Mail and The Express, as well as the government are only inflaming the situation. I thought Theresa May, empathy vacuum that she is, would be competent. She's really not helped since she's been in office. It makes me very angry seeing so many people I know feeling unwanted and living with fear, despite being exactly the sort of hard-working tax payers that we are always saying we want.

She certainly knows how it all works. Also a black president and a female one back to back would be rather exciting, after so long looking like neither would happen in my lifetime...

You could look happier about it!

Perez injury looked nasty at the time and a completely unnecessary foul from some sub trying to make a name for himself. Ref didn't even book him. But then he let them away with a lot in the second half.

Southampton at home. Dangerous, but winnable. Depends who's fit and who can be rotated it. Hopefully west Ham can stick it up Mourinho. That said I don't fancy being away fan at their place in a semi-final...

Sunderland...meh. Should win if we start well. Their confidence is pretty low.

Get in behind you little peanut ...... the only decent Hillary was the bloke who conquered Everest.

Clinton's foreign policy "sort out Russia and China " ...wonderful ...World War 3 soon to be showing at a theatre near you .

Why does the race card get played every time someone rails against immigration .

Just having a flood of extra people to house , feed , educate , find work for etc etc isn't to everyone's liking ....... and anyone voicing disapproval is labelled a racist ....?

The refugee crisis in Europe ........ everyone runs around like headless chickens trying to find solutions while no-one has the gonads to point the finger at who is really to blame .

Ousting Mossaddegh , Allende , Hussein , Ghaddafi , Grenada , engineering the Gulf Of Tonkin , trying to get rid of Assad
arming moderate Muslim rebels [ now ISIS ] you can guarantee any war going on the Yanks have their 'finger in the pie '.

The NSA , CIA , FBI , Homeland Security , Secret Service , Drug and Alcohol ..... America is overloaded with all sorts of agencies ; creating all sorts of false flag operations [1] to justify their existence [2] serve corporate America .

....an .....and ......Kissinger and Obama collect Nobel Peace Prizes they should post date a couple for Stalin and Pol Pot .

WTF? What kind of double think is that? If I genuinely thought you were racist, I'd have said it. I think your ignorance regarding the current situation in England is generously universal.





Which is exactly my point. I'd prefer if more of it was the other way round as my sentence stated.





Of course I don't have proof. I'm not going to spend hours trawling through every post on this forum, pulling out individual examples of every stupid or offensive thing you've said just to satisfy your ego. What kind of psycho would do that? As for the opinions of others, they aren't needed...and anyway Daz and I certainly don't always see eye to eye!

Yeah..can't trust those bloody Swiss
My mum's half trini - got a whole bloody clan of them! And Trini's are all so mixed anyway it gets complicated quickly...

.
True ......... because of a chronic shortage of cloth after World War 2 ... Liverpool had a set of jerseys made from Nazi German banners .

The red bits of course ; they discarded the swastikas .

I worked on an oil rig in Trinadad ..... very very very nice people .

Evening lomekian. If you're stating it as a fact, what hard evidence are you using to say "the UK has become more racist" over the last year? The Brexit vote isn't, in my view, a sign of the UK becoming more racist so I hope and doubt you're seeing that as hard evidence. What groups are you counting as far right, and by how many members has their membership grown? The BNP maybe? If they doubled their membership I doubt it would be even remotely a significant proportion of the population.

Jees things must be bad over the Irish Sea. I'm going to nominate Ted's Chinese impression as post of the day though. Feckin hilarious

It's all divide and rule Bernard. The real fault lies in low wages and neoliberalism - capitalism chasing the low wage demands of immigrants. Take that out of the equation and what's the problem? Nada.

For me that doesn't equant to racism. It sounds more like profiteering from the disadvantaged. That can happen with any race or colour.

Well I'd say that the 41+% increase in racially and religiously motivated crimes is some sort of evidence, and that's not including the vast numbers of unreported crimes, and the fact that I've had a number of people I know racially abused for the first time in their lives in the last few months. Pretty much every independent organisation that has done any research, including those who aren't looking for the smoking gun, have demonstrated that racial abuse has risen significantly.

As for far right groups. None will be a significant proportion of the population, but the increase is indicative of certain attitudes being seen as more socially acceptable. But yes BNP and Britain First are the main beneficiaries. What is more concerning is that it is a pan European phenomenon, and in many countries far worse than in the UK

Yes I know about all that stuff and I'm not labelling Trump a racist just because he's against immigration.

My method of political selection is to start at the bottom and work my way up so I dislike Trump more than Clinton but that doesn't mean I like Clinton either although she seems more stable, knowledgable about world events and predictable.

On the arms/military stuff you're not wrong....

http://time.com/4161613/us-arms-sales-exports-weapons/

and

"The United States spent 20 percent of the federal budget on defense in 2011. All told, the U.S. government spent about $718 billion on defense and international security assistance in 2011 — more than it spent on Medicare.Jan 7, 2013"

Wait, sorry, now gunfire's argumentum ad verecundiam is not just The Sun but Breitbart that well known neutral outlet!!! Having once lived near Treblinka is obviously a clincher as well.

Just for the record I don't believe in uncontrolled immigration so I'm hardly going to claim that people who do murdered Anne Frank.

Gunfire has asked for specifics which I'm more than happy to provide. His racism (in my opinion) was manifested in a series of posts - from his unique vantage point in Ireland - claiming that "multi-culturalism" had destroyed (or ruined I don't remember the exact terminology) Britain due to its policy of letting in "any Tom, Dick or Mohammed". This last phrase in particular with its obvious dogwhistle to prejudice against a specific group of people in British society was in my opinion blatantly racist. It was akin to Farage's use of brown-skinned migrants in a poster about EU migration - again blatantly racist in my opinion.

People don't like being called out on racism and will go to considerable lengths to deny it - even recalling the beer and good old laugh they once had with an "immigrant" but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or you're some kind of mad trendy lefty for pointing it out.

Of all the many ludicrous denials on here, the one about people being too frightened to express their "legitimate concerns" over immigration is possibly the most ridiculous. The newspapers seem to manage to fight off this terror to print a headline about it practically every day of the *%^@*** week. I am really not noticing any particular shyness when it comes to strident opinions on it.

I'd missed the alleged increase, although I wonder hear how it's recorded or measured.

But anyway, the report I found on it was produced shortly after the EU referendum and it said racially and religiously motivated crimes have been increasing over the last four years, not just the last year as you suggest.

Oh and just for the record: the idea of uncontrolled immigration where we do let in "every Tom, Dick and Mohammed" is a total lie.

Apart from the free movement of labour from EU nations, we have strict immigration controls but it of course suits the right-wing media whose links gunfire is so fond of posting, to suggest otherwise.

Yes, I thought I would clinically bypass the racism debate to dissect the root cause in one concise post.

Here's Rod Liddle of whom I suspect gunfire also approves, using the same mocking sarcasm.

"The overwhelming majority of street crime, knife crime, gun crime, robbery and crimes of sexual violence in London is carried out by young men from the African-Caribbean community. Of course, in return, we have rap music, goat curry and a far more vibrant and diverse understanding of cultures which were once alien to us. For which, many thanks."

Note he doesn't directly say "I hate black people" in this blatantly racist statement.

But as well as being both factually misleading and inaccurate, I find his "goat curry and rap music" overt racism really offensive (yeah I know! Trigger happy liberal or WHAT!!!) to our numerous young black players.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk ... ls-1133106



https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s.politics



Damn those right wing newspapers!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN7YA4FO7TY[/youtube]

http://www.empireofthekop.com/2016/10/2 ... rejection/

Arsenal let Ovie Ejaria go two years back and now the 18-year-old is arguably regarded as the most talented talented teenage prospect at Liverpool, alongside Trent Alexander-Arnold and Ben Woodburn....

People try and evade immigration controls shocker.

I like that, really catchy....I just thought I would post something related to Germany.... i.e the song title.

Band is from London.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=spvvAdAN5bA

I've seen all kinds of ugliness and hideous excess. ...

Where do you stand on the Dutch, Babu?