Supporters Forum

mcquilkie · **#390321**

old man of hoy wrote:

Gaz from Oz wrote:

Can I make a point about VAR and the allegedly twice touched penalty. So much depends on what the VAR person gets to see...

Indeed, and this is another murky and unsatisfactory area of football. What gets shown on the screen will be completely dependent upon a person who is not formally part of the match taking place - namely, an unaccountable TV producer! For years we have had 'trial by television' and retrospective disciplinary action for incidents unseen by the officials during the course of a match, but who actually decided which of those incidents merited scrutiny remains a mystery. That TV runs so much of football now is obvious, but its influence over on-field issues should be carefully limited. VAR may be useful in certain circumstances but overall I'd sooner live with the vagaries of the officials, biased or unbiased.

VAR has been used in the Australian league this season and it's truly horrible in its current guise. Tonight, a goal was ruled out courtesy of a player being registered as offside by the VAR in the move (or do I mean phase) before the move before the move before the goal. It was a 'violation' spotted by no-one on or off the park; which would have been argued afterwards by precisely nobody other than the kind of saddos who occupy forums like this one (lovable saddos though we are); and which resulted in a goal being ruled out as the two teams were lining up for kick-off, both of whom had believed it was valid. A better way to suck the life out of football, I can't imagine.

old man of hoy · **#390322**

Bernard wrote:

I also agree with Daz. VAR shouldn't have seen the penalty retaken. The evidence that he kicked it twice simply wasn't hard enough.

What interested me about that situation was the way in which many Arsenal players quickly appealed for a double touch. Not something you would do unless it happened. They clearly saw, and most probably heard, that something was wrong when the penalty taker made impact with the ball. Truth is the referee missed what the players didn't, and in the context of the match it was a significant error.

TOP GUN · **#390323**

I'm fully aboard Daz's boat now.

I'll be watching the Chelsea game on Wednesday hoping we get hammered. Only continuous failure now will bring forth the change required that with gods goodwill enables the liberation of our once great football club.

Daz · **#390324**

john1 wrote:

Daz wrote:

I know "I don't know" is an unfashionable term but I truly don't know. I do think it was almost a bizarre case of the slip bringing his feet together simultaneously and I don't know what the rules say on that. Is the "loop" only explicable by the second foot or could falling backwards provide that kind of uplift? I'm not a physicist so I don't know and I think the point Gaz is reasonably making is neither would the VAR refs so they would probably in the moment stick with a goal with no clear and decisive evidence to overturn. Obviously we may all disagree on what is clear and decisive but a bit like "umpire's call" in cricket we will just have to live with some decisions that are questionable not being overturned.

I used to be a free kick geek back in the 70s. Spent hours practising them with my school goalie mate.

The only time I managed an effect like that pen was when I slipped and double hit. No way that ball does that without hitting his other foot. Physics would suggest the same too. (The look on the Forest player's face suggests also that he thought it was a fluke)

Just for the record - I am not trying to say the result was a travesty - we deserved to lose.

Wenger out.

Sure I didn't say I knew that had happened, I was just wondering out loud in terms of whether a VAR ref would know for certain. Anyway, double hit or not, it was just one of those things really not exactly the defining moment in the game and, compared to chippy northern and midlands refs indulging their hatred of the most successful club in London fifteen years ago, relatively small beer.

Very impressed by the number of physicists on here though - I didn't even get a GCSE in it.

Daz · **#390325**

old man of hoy wrote:

Bernard wrote:

I also agree with Daz. VAR shouldn't have seen the penalty retaken. The evidence that he kicked it twice simply wasn't hard enough.

What interested me about that situation was the way in which many Arsenal players quickly appealed for a double touch. Not something you would do unless it happened. They clearly saw, and most probably heard, that something was wrong when the penalty taker made impact with the ball. Truth is the referee missed what the players didn't, and in the context of the match it was a significant error.

I do agree with that. They seemed absolutely certain and vehement. I don't quite agree on its significance though but I await a ton of hypothetical certainties, phrases like "everybody knows" and "balance of game shifting".

Niall · **#390326**

http://news.arseblog.com/2018/01/report ... m=facebook

Quote:

According to the Mirror, Arsenal could sell Francis Coquelin before the January transfer window closes.

Daz · **#390327**

mcquilkie wrote:

Daz wrote:

Literally is a figure of speech.

Although he might mean literally in the strictest sense anyway - it's hard to think of something that isn't right now.

Say it ain't so, Daz. If you concede - and you're throwing in the biggest, wettest, saddest, defeatistest towel if you do - that 'literally' can now mean either its accepted definition for a millennium - i.e. 'literally' - or its precise opposite as determined in recent years by idiots - i.e. 'not literally' - where does this leave us vis-a-vis your own relationship with language and with truth? Much like John Lennon with the Maharishi, I'm feeling a little violated right now.

That's literally an over-reaction, McQ. I don't mind literally used as an emphasiser so much because we accept many such hyperbolic devices and I find it slightly pedantic to obsess over it when everybody knows what the speaker means. Did Jay Gatsby literally glow as Fitzgerald said he did?

Things that annoy me far more:

Whilst

Data as singular

Methinks/hubby/chrimbo/see you anon/nibbles

Your/you're

Bored · **#390328**

Assuming that 4th place looks unlikely given how poorly the team is playing, surely winning the Europa League is Wenger's only possible salvation?

Daz · **#390329**

Our neighbours invited us round for Chrimbo drinks and nibbles and I had to be dragged there kicking and screaming.

Daz · **#390330**

I also hate the way my kids start every bloody sentence with "wait" and "so".

"Wait does that mean he's not playing Vibe and Sawyers" for example.

Daz · **#390331**

I don't feel that angry with Wenger over selection actually. Having big players on the bench doesn't always work when you fall behind, they can struggle to make an impact as Brentford discovered to their cost on Saturday.

Niall · **#390332**

john1 wrote:

I used to be a free kick geek back in the 70s. Spent hours practising them with my school goalie mate. The only time I managed an effect like that pen was when I slipped and double hit.

All the rest were top ins.... :icon_smile11:

Wilts-Gooner · **#390333**

Bored wrote:

Assuming that 4th place looks unlikely given how poorly the team is playing, surely winning the Europa League is Wenger's only possible salvation?

I would say so yes, I don't think the company (sorry, club?) would value it though if not for the fact that it is a passport back into the CL, however there are still some decent(ish) teams in it, especially AM, so I think the odds are against him, as much as I'd like to win the EL I would have to sacrifice it if it mean't more time for Wenger to endulge his fantasy about winning the CL, as with the FA cup wins it's just not a price worth paying.

TOP GUN · **#390334**

Wenger won't win the Europa. He's hopeless at 2 legged ties and Milan,Lazio and others are still in the competition.

We seem to be selling Sanchez as well in January who has played a key role in winning the recent fa cups. Unless he is replaced in January with a serious match winner I can't see us having enough firepower going forward to win the league cup given Chelsea and city block our way or Europa.

We are surely finishing this year potless

Hazuki · **#390335**

Daz wrote:

I don't mind literally used as an emphasiser so much

How about "everything literally everything" as an emphasiser?

mcquilkie · **#390336**

Daz wrote:

mcquilkie wrote:

Say it ain't so, Daz. If you concede - and you're throwing in the biggest, wettest, saddest, defeatistest towel if you do - that 'literally' can now mean either its accepted definition for a millennium - i.e. 'literally' - or its precise opposite as determined in recent years by idiots - i.e. 'not literally' - where does this leave us vis-a-vis your own relationship with language and with truth? Much like John Lennon with the Maharishi, I'm feeling a little violated right now.

That's literally an over-reaction, McQ. I don't mind literally used as an emphasiser so much because we accept many such hyperbolic devices and I find it slightly pedantic to obsess over it when everybody knows what the speaker means. Did Jay Gatsby literally glow as Fitzgerald said he did?

Things that annoy me far more:

Whilst

Data as singular

Methinks/hubby/chrimbo/see you anon/nibbles

Your/you're

I hear you, Daz. I saw a few 'whilsts' today in something I'm editing at work, and wondered whether I should literally sound the alarm. I didn't, though, because I don't have an alarm - so how could I sound it? Anyway, the book is about the First World War, so the usually overly formal 'whilst' kind of seemed in context. As for the likes of 'methinks/hubby/chrimbo/see you anon/nibbles', they're what are known in the book-publishing trade as Pommy words and should be avoided at all costs. As a rule of thumb, we try to imagine Dennis Lillee or Jeff Thomson uttering the phrase: if we can't picture Thommo casually chatting about nibbles, hubbies or chrimbo, it's out the window, mate. Quick smart.

Niall · **#390337**

mcquilkie wrote:

wondered whether I should literally sound the alarm. I didn't, though, because I don't have an alarm - so how could I sound it?

Apps\Clock

Niall · **#390338**

TOP GUN wrote:

Wenger won't win the Europa. He's hopeless at 2 legged ties and Milan,Lazio and others are still in the competition.

Milan and Lazio aren't any great shakes.

Bernard1 · **#390339**

mcquilkie wrote:

As a rule of thumb, we try to imagine Dennis Lillee or Jeff Thomson uttering the phrase: if we can't picture Thommo casually chatting about nibbles, hubbies or chrimbo, it's out the window, mate. Quick smart.

Jeff Thomson played for Middlesex. Don't recall Lillee ever joining an English county (or Welsh with Glamorgan).

john1 · **#390340**

Niall wrote:

john1 wrote:

I used to be a free kick geek back in the 70s. Spent hours practising them with my school goalie mate. The only time I managed an effect like that pen was when I slipped and double hit.

All the rest were top ins.... :icon_smile11:

Of course! Wasn't known as Zico for nothing. :icon_mrgreen:

Daz · **#390341**

mcquilkie wrote:

I hear you, Daz.

Good point - that too.

TOP GUN · **#390342**

Niall wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Wenger won't win the Europa. He's hopeless at 2 legged ties and Milan,Lazio and others are still in the competition.

Milan and Lazio aren't any great shakes.

Are they better than forest ?

Athletico?

john1 · **#390343**

Daz wrote:

mcquilkie wrote:

I hear you, Daz.

Good point - that too.

And that Aussie (?) thing of making every sentence sound like a question? You know? I was walking down the street? And a man came along? Asked me if I was known as Zico in my youth? So I said, like, yes?

Niall · **#390344**

john1 wrote:

Daz wrote:

Good point - that too.

And that Aussie (?) thing of making every sentence sound like a question? You know? I was walking down the street? And a man came along? Asked me if I was known as Zico in my youth? So I said, like, yes?

I was pretty sick last week. Was worried I may have picked up that Aussie flu that was doing the rounds. Knew a sneeze was on the way and wow when it came....."AAAAAAchoo, ya big gallah, AAAAchoo, ya bleedin' drongo, AAAAAAchoo, fair dinkum!".....think I'm all right now but my jokes haven't got any better.

Niall · **#390345**

TOP GUN wrote:

Niall wrote:

Milan and Lazio aren't any great shakes.

Are they better than forest ?

Debatable.

Rich · **#390346**

Niall wrote:

http://news.arseblog.com/2018/01/report-arsenal-ready-to-let-go-of-their-coq/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Quote:

According to the Mirror, Arsenal could sell Francis Coquelin before the January transfer window closes.

I thought the line about Coq's only start in the prem being away to Man City......as a centre back was funny. What on earth was wenger doing with his selection that day? No lacazette like Anfield I seem to remember as well.

Also the line Keown said in an earlier article link "you're always the last one to admit/know that you are past it"........Keown meant it for Mertesacker but it is more apt for Wenger as we know Per has called it quits at the end of the season

Niall · **#390347**

A small playlist for Arsene....

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVT_3PEgDIM[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ8_alfIHYI[/youtube]

Rich · **#390348**

I'm not sure chasing 30 year old Jonny Evans or 29 year ols Mahrez is exactly what we need right now - especially as the prices quoted would be a combined £60m!

Hazuki · **#390349**

Niall wrote:

A small playlist for Arsene....

We need to expand this.

https://open.spotify.com/user/hazuki/pl ... 6BjHLZChKd

Bernard1 · **#390350**

Rich wrote:

Also the line Keown said in an earlier article link "you're always the last one to admit/know that you are past it"........Keown meant it for Mertesacker but it is more apt for Wenger as we know Per has called it quits at the end of the season

Keown is a tosser if he meant Mertesacker when saying that. Per was intending to retire last summer to go out on a high after the cup final. Wenger, someone who knows nothing about going at the right time, wanted him to give it this season before retiring as a player.

tomc · **#390351**

Shame on the FA for giving Wenger a 3 match touchline ban. I was hoping for a 6 month stadium ban.

Niall · **#390352**

Hazuki wrote:

Niall wrote:

A small playlist for Arsene....

We need to expand this.

https://open.spotify.com/user/hazuki/pl ... 6BjHLZChKd

Love it!

Niall · **#390353**

Niall wrote:

Hazuki wrote:

We need to expand this.

https://open.spotify.com/user/hazuki/pl ... 6BjHLZChKd

Love it!

So many - only got halfway through my playlist and some gems:

Everything's Ruined - FNM
Bad Habit - Foals (Alex Metric remix)
Happy Endings - Pulp
I Know Its Over - Smiths
Over Now - Alice In Chains
Feels Like We Only Go Backwards - Tame Impala
Shut Up and Let Me Go - Ting Tings
Basket Case - Green Day
The End Has No End - Strokes
If You Don't Want Me To Destroy You - S.Furry.A
A Head Full Of Dreams - Coldplay
Ful Stop - Radiohead
Why Go - Pearl Jam
Running To Stand Still - U2
Don't You Want Me - Human League
I Won't Let The Sun Go Down on Me - Nik Kershaw
You're History - Shakespears Sister
(It's Not War) Just The End of Love - Manics
Pedestrian At Best - Courtney Barnett

TOP GUN · **#390354**

Bellerin needs to be transferred immediately. Totally disappeared up his own arse.

Off with his head. Liberation needed

Hazuki · **#390355**

Yes, how dare Bellerin look like he belongs to his own generation. And what about this instagram nonsense. We didn't have that when I was growing up so therefore it is bad.

warrior · **#390356**

I just watched the game again.

It's so odd for the second penalty kick. Both the comms said "It was a double kick and it should have been retaken".
Then they say it again a minute later about it should have been retaken.

and then a third time - "Two touches, it should have been retaken ..."
You'd think they'd know the rules.

TOP GUN · **#390357**

Hazuki wrote:

Yes, how dare Bellerin look like he belongs to his own generation. And what about this instagram nonsense. We didn't have that when I was growing up so therefore it is bad.

That belongs to no generation my friend. Shalom

Wilts-Gooner · **#390358**

TOP GUN wrote:

Hazuki wrote:

Yes, how dare Bellerin look like he belongs to his own generation. And what about this instagram nonsense. We didn't have that when I was growing up so therefore it is bad.

That belongs to no generation my friend. Shalom

What generation is that? - Rupert Bear crossed with a Gnome?.

TOP GUN · **#390359**

warrior wrote:

I just watched the game again.

.

*%^@*** hell !

Why the *%^@ would you do that! :laughing7:

long time gooner · **#390360**

Bernard wrote:

Gaz from Oz, I couldn't see anything to suggest Welbeck's shot was going wide before being deflected in. His shot looked on target as far as I could see.

I also agree with Daz. VAR shouldn't have seen the penalty retaken. The evidence that he kicked it twice simply wasn't hard enough.

Very true. Because there is no way in the laws of the game that it should have been retaken if it was a double kick.

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