Truly amazed that anyone cannot see that was a double touch, especially when viewed from behind the taker. He goes to drill the ball low to keepers left and it lobs over where the keepers right shoulder was. Hilarious that BT comms couldn't see it after several re runs.

One angle only showed the goalkeeper deflected it back towards the goal. The comms went on to say it should be classified as an OG.

Your view is based on an assumption that this is the only way the ball could have loped up like that. You nor the refs are not experts in this field, if there is such an area of study. It is not based on physical evidence that shows 2 kicks. Without that the decision could not be overturned. The ref got it right as did the linesman.

Yes but the really clever people have moved passed that , and adopting the attitude one touch , two touches , twenty touches who cares we were sh**t .... had no gameplan , little desire , no heart and so lost the game .

Yes siree that's what the clued up brigade are thinking .

Seriously? He hits it with the instep of his left foot, it cannot possibly take the trajectory it did without a deflection, which on replay you can clearly see.

Could not care less about the result, or this current set up to be honest, but I'm always fascinated when errors are highlighted and still people cannot see the evidence before them. The comms, who I assume were ex players, still couldn't twig after several replays. Bizarrely they agreed between them that Debuchy had not committed a foul in the first place.

All part of "austerity measures" now we're out of the Champions(and 2nd, 3rd 4th) league.

Got to stay in profit, that is the #1 goal of KSE Inc.

Midtable here we come!.

Agreed, it was clear on the replays.

Prepare yourself for total disappointment when VAR arrives. Sorry I never seen any deflection from one foot to the other. Read some of my early posts. Coverage I had never proved conclusively it hit the other foot.

I understand completely your argument. Do you accept the ref and lino could not clearly see what happened without drawing assumptions that' this must have been what happened.'

On what I saw which was even more than the ref I could not draw on circumstantial evidence alone without any independent corroboration.

Lets all just look forward to the Chelsea first leg. That should be an absolute joy to behold. What could go wrong. I wonder what team we will play. That defensive team may need a few pointers before the big game.

You would have thought with all the recent controversy that the 4th official would have tipped them off when they had the conflab on the touch line. A bit of common sense sometimes goes a long way.

I know "I don't know" is an unfashionable term but I truly don't know. I do think it was almost a bizarre case of the slip bringing his feet together simultaneously and I don't know what the rules say on that. Is the "loop" only explicable by the second foot or could falling backwards provide that kind of uplift? I'm not a physicist so I don't know and I think the point Gaz is reasonably making is neither would the VAR refs so they would probably in the moment stick with a goal with no clear and decisive evidence to overturn. Obviously we may all disagree on what is clear and decisive but a bit like "umpire's call" in cricket we will just have to live with some decisions that are questionable not being overturned.

But Kiwi he didn't dive. He put the ball ahead of himself and ran into a defender and went over. You see that happen a lot, and often my sympathy is with the defenders. How can they get out of the way? Where are they supposed to go if a forward runs more or less straight at them? Yes the free kick that led to the goal was harsh, but our boy didn't dive to get it.

If the PGMOL are going to be responsible for running VAR then I suspect there will be very little change.

In other news, for the gamblers out there, Ancelotti to replace Conte in the summer.

I used to be a free kick geek back in the 70s. Spent hours practising them with my school goalie mate.

The only time I managed an effect like that pen was when I slipped and double hit. No way that ball does that without hitting his other foot. Physics would suggest the same too. (The look on the Forest player's face suggests also that he thought it was a fluke)

Just for the record - I am not trying to say the result was a travesty - we deserved to lose.

Wenger out.

http://onlinegooner.com/article.php?sec ... lNQhlVl_Gg

Pretty much calls it.

Even my posts are double hits!!

Say it ain't so, Daz. If you concede - and you're throwing in the biggest, wettest, saddest, defeatistest towel if you do - that 'literally' can now mean either its accepted definition for a millennium - i.e. 'literally' - or its precise opposite as determined in recent years by idiots - i.e. 'not literally' - where does this leave us vis-a-vis your own relationship with language and with truth? Much like John Lennon with the Maharishi, I'm feeling a little violated right now.

Indeed, and this is another murky and unsatisfactory area of football. What gets shown on the screen will be completely dependent upon a person who is not formally part of the match taking place - namely, an unaccountable TV producer! For years we have had 'trial by television' and retrospective disciplinary action for incidents unseen by the officials during the course of a match, but who actually decided which of those incidents merited scrutiny remains a mystery. That TV runs so much of football now is obvious, but its influence over on-field issues should be carefully limited. VAR may be useful in certain circumstances but overall I'd sooner live with the vagaries of the officials, biased or unbiased.

VAR has been used in the Australian league this season and it's truly horrible in its current guise. Tonight, a goal was ruled out courtesy of a player being registered as offside by the VAR in the move (or do I mean phase) before the move before the move before the goal. It was a 'violation' spotted by no-one on or off the park; which would have been argued afterwards by precisely nobody other than the kind of saddos who occupy forums like this one (lovable saddos though we are); and which resulted in a goal being ruled out as the two teams were lining up for kick-off, both of whom had believed it was valid. A better way to suck the life out of football, I can't imagine.

What interested me about that situation was the way in which many Arsenal players quickly appealed for a double touch. Not something you would do unless it happened. They clearly saw, and most probably heard, that something was wrong when the penalty taker made impact with the ball. Truth is the referee missed what the players didn't, and in the context of the match it was a significant error.

I'm fully aboard Daz's boat now.

I'll be watching the Chelsea game on Wednesday hoping we get hammered. Only continuous failure now will bring forth the change required that with gods goodwill enables the liberation of our once great football club.

Sure I didn't say I knew that had happened, I was just wondering out loud in terms of whether a VAR ref would know for certain. Anyway, double hit or not, it was just one of those things really not exactly the defining moment in the game and, compared to chippy northern and midlands refs indulging their hatred of the most successful club in London fifteen years ago, relatively small beer.

Very impressed by the number of physicists on here though - I didn't even get a GCSE in it.

I do agree with that. They seemed absolutely certain and vehement. I don't quite agree on its significance though but I await a ton of hypothetical certainties, phrases like "everybody knows" and "balance of game shifting".

That's literally an over-reaction, McQ. I don't mind literally used as an emphasiser so much because we accept many such hyperbolic devices and I find it slightly pedantic to obsess over it when everybody knows what the speaker means. Did Jay Gatsby literally glow as Fitzgerald said he did?

Things that annoy me far more:

Whilst

Data as singular

Methinks/hubby/chrimbo/see you anon/nibbles

Your/you're

Assuming that 4th place looks unlikely given how poorly the team is playing, surely winning the Europa League is Wenger's only possible salvation?

Our neighbours invited us round for Chrimbo drinks and nibbles and I had to be dragged there kicking and screaming.

I also hate the way my kids start every bloody sentence with "wait" and "so".

"Wait does that mean he's not playing Vibe and Sawyers" for example.

I don't feel that angry with Wenger over selection actually. Having big players on the bench doesn't always work when you fall behind, they can struggle to make an impact as Brentford discovered to their cost on Saturday.

All the rest were top ins....

I would say so yes, I don't think the company (sorry, club?) would value it though if not for the fact that it is a passport back into the CL, however there are still some decent(ish) teams in it, especially AM, so I think the odds are against him, as much as I'd like to win the EL I would have to sacrifice it if it mean't more time for Wenger to endulge his fantasy about winning the CL, as with the FA cup wins it's just not a price worth paying.

Wenger won't win the Europa. He's hopeless at 2 legged ties and Milan,Lazio and others are still in the competition.

We seem to be selling Sanchez as well in January who has played a key role in winning the recent fa cups. Unless he is replaced in January with a serious match winner I can't see us having enough firepower going forward to win the league cup given Chelsea and city block our way or Europa.

We are surely finishing this year potless

How about "everything literally everything" as an emphasiser?

I hear you, Daz. I saw a few 'whilsts' today in something I'm editing at work, and wondered whether I should literally sound the alarm. I didn't, though, because I don't have an alarm - so how could I sound it? Anyway, the book is about the First World War, so the usually overly formal 'whilst' kind of seemed in context. As for the likes of 'methinks/hubby/chrimbo/see you anon/nibbles', they're what are known in the book-publishing trade as Pommy words and should be avoided at all costs. As a rule of thumb, we try to imagine Dennis Lillee or Jeff Thomson uttering the phrase: if we can't picture Thommo casually chatting about nibbles, hubbies or chrimbo, it's out the window, mate. Quick smart.

Apps\Clock

Milan and Lazio aren't any great shakes.

Jeff Thomson played for Middlesex. Don't recall Lillee ever joining an English county (or Welsh with Glamorgan).

Of course! Wasn't known as Zico for nothing.

Good point - that too.

Are they better than forest ?

Athletico?