Very good.
I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity.

I do. I think he’s going to leave.

Yes, and of the six goals I would say only one came without defensive error, that being our first. For all the others you can attribute blame. The whole of the Arsenal defence for their first; Holding for their second and third; Mertersacker and the ref for their fourth; and their keeper for Welbeck's goal. Great result for the anti-Arsenals but in truth a game of football mainly without high quality. A good day for dear old Forest, but whoever draws them next must fancy their chances of getting to the 5th Round.

Not that it mattered much, but that was ridiculous and inexplicable given there were five second-half substitutions; two penalties, including the ref needing to talk to the linesman after one; and a longish injury break for a Forest player. This really is something contentious in the game that could be simply improved by taking a leaf out of the books of other sports. Use a clock!

A combination of us winning the trophy 3 times in the last 4 years and just sick and tired of wenger has somewhat numbed the pain of today's defeat.
I so hope Darren is right.
The excitement of wenger going , the excitement of the rumours of who the new manager will be. The buzz of someone and something new.
New hope. New tactics. The first press conference of our new manager.
This is what I'm looking forward to.
Wenger clearly doesn't like what Gazidis has been doing re the changes in the backroom team. His power base is slowly being cut.
I hope he does go in the summer. Just do the right thing man.

Let me add he has given me my best moments as an Arsenal fan but he needs to stop being so selfish and let someone else have a go.
It's TIME.

Oh yes, Joel Campbell, the forgotten man. He is miles better than Walcott and would have been 200% more effective.

And if luck would have it, VAR will cancel us a goal, and deny us a penalty.

Can I make a point about VAR and the allegedly twice touched penalty.

So much depends on what the VAR person gets to see. On the coverage here I never saw any footage that clearly 100% showed he hit it twice. Jeez it looked like it but nothing to absolutely prove it. So immediately after the incident if the VAR person saw exactly the coverage I did then the refs decision must stand. It is no use TV showing later that night a different camera angle that they did not realise they had. The decision will be made in a 5-10 sec timeframe. If you cannot be sure then you must back the decision already made.

On decisions I never saw any actual footage of how Wellbeck came to shoot wide and the keeper deflected it in. But my first impression was that the keeper had both hands on the ball and wellbeck touched it off him. Maybe it could have been a free to them if there was any camera. Maybe it was my imagination. It was never replayed on our coverage with any way of seeing what happened. But the point is that VAR cannot solve too many problems.

You know I have never been a particular supporter of refs but I feel sorry for them. It is not the refs we should be spending time trying to rectify it is the players cheating, exaggerating and deceiving that is the problem. Review games and hand out cards and suspensions and it will soon stop. But that includes Man U and big club players not just Stoke and Bournemouth players. Have the FA got the balls for it. NO. They are part of the problem not just the refs.

Just watched the game again. Our senior players, other than Ospina let us down. Holding was slow and cumbersome and actually I thought he mentally collapsed. It will be a long way back for him and Mert.

Which brings me to Arsenal traditions. When Arsenal were beaten by Walsall (I think) in the 1930's in an FA Cup upset, Chapman decided one or two of the players would never play for the club again and got rid of them. Arsene you love the values of the club. Over to you.

Yes but if you are going to focus on refs making mistakes why didn't you mention the earlier incident when Nelson dived to win the free kick which led to our first goal ....?

Per's comments after the match were clearly directed at senior players. Most definitely at Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Welbeck and definitely Walcott. I am sure he has counted himself in as well.

Holding, Elneny, Debuchy & Welbeck are just not good enough.
Walcott is a waste of space. Definitely not giving his all, and shies away from tackles. Get out of Arsenal!

All the blame goes to Wenger for failing to shift ineffective players, and giving them fat contracts. The sunk cost for buying expensive players is saved by Wenger. But, the variable and recurring cost for fat salaries from ineffective/disinterested players, is caused by Wenger too. A terribly failed gamble by someone who used to have better foresight. And with hindsight, he still gambles on.

Didn’t watch the game last night, but you know it’s bad when people start to get nostalgic about Joel Campbell. Come on people, let’s not slag Wenger off for one of the things he’s actually done right in recent years – deciding Campbell isn’t good enough. Walcott is far superior, and he should've been sold 2-3 years ago.

Looking at our eleven from last night, there’s actually a fair bit of talent there. Shame we can’t set up the team properly these days. Like Darren, I actually suspect Wenger will leave in the summer – either by choice or by force. The fact that we’ve signed a player above Wenger’s head is a huge sign that there’s a power shift going on. I hope we sell Sanchez in January, and Özil as well if he doesn’t sign a new contract. Hoard the money, or get a couple of young quality players in. Doesn’t matter that Wenger can’t get the best out of them, we need quality players for the next manager anyway.

I think the spin on the ball proved it hit his other foot (standing foot). It is impossible to make the ball spin with topspin if you just strike a football off the ground without it hitting anything else. The physics of it are more conclusive that what the human eye can or can’t see

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -draw.html

Chew on that you numpties.....

cat amongst the pigeons......

I think this is the last straw for Wenger, they must let him go, as that was a shambles,it was his decision to forsake the value of the FA cup for a lesser competition in which we don't have much chance of progressing in.
Wonder if Vieira and Arteta would take it on?

I think if you go through all our rivals squad you can make similar lists of players that need replacing.

Liverpool have no goalkeeper of the required standard, and exactly one central defender who is good enough in Van Dijk. Matip looks no more than decent, Klavan and Lovren are simply not good enough. Chelsea have a good starting eleven overall, with a couple of top class players papering over the cracks. Not much depth, and even some of their starters are not that good. Man United sorely lacks creativity throughout their entire squad. Tottenham have possibly the worst bench in the top 6. There’s work to be done for every manager.

I will never understand why people deem Welbeck as not good enough, and Coquelin and Elneny are not worse squad options than Drinkwater or that useless lump Fellaini.

We need a bit of an overhaul, but there’s a good core group of players for our new manager to work with, sprinkled with a couple of top class talents. If anyone thought we could turn everything around with just a manager change and one transfer window they were fooling themselves to begin with.

Well that's mighty big of him.

Today's rumour is Ramsey and Welbeck are both refusing to sign new contracts as the club has offered them extensions but with no improved terms.

Welbeck I couldn't care less about now as he's Kevin Campbell -40% but Ramsey can still do a job in the premiership.

Everything literally everything is in disarray

Everybody thinks Mike Dean was wrong to give that penalty. It was a hard one to deny. We all KNOW that some penalties are incorrectly given or not given, it's hardly major news. Happens in all sports even with technology. Saw an absurd one in the Lions v All Blacks at the death when NZ not given a clear penalty for offside that would have given them the series (just for you, KP!)

Not really the point though is it?

Do you react by running around screaming at every subsequent 50/50 decision that goes against us and claim it is evidence of some big conspiracy while ignoring any decisions in our favour or evidence of our players doing what all the rest of them do?

On the subject of VAR I really hope people don't kill better with perfect. There will be some hiccoughs at the start it won't solve everything just as happened with cricket reviews. I very much doubt it would have altered the "double touch" decision yesterday as it just wasn't conclusive enough - like an LBW where you have a reasonable idea but it still remains too close to overturn. That might be annoying for some fanatics but it is still probably much better than the status quo. I am pessimistic though that as soon as it doesn't achieve the desired outcome on one occasion the squealing and special pleading and victim mentality will all start up again.

You mean figuratively and you need to stop believing every rumour you read.

Daz if you're talking to me no I do not. I praise them when they get things right, I accept the decision they make if they give nothing because they couldn't see the incident and I acknowledge a penalty given eg Bellerin when he ran alongside a layer and pushed him in the back however lightly, so no I am not looking at every decision as bad.

I dfo however objec o the obviously bad decisions that go against my team when watchng a game.

Literally is a figure of speech.

Although he might mean literally in the strictest sense anyway - it's hard to think of something that isn't right now.

Gaz from Oz, I couldn't see anything to suggest Welbeck's shot was going wide before being deflected in. His shot looked on target as far as I could see.

I also agree with Daz. VAR shouldn't have seen the penalty retaken. The evidence that he kicked it twice simply wasn't hard enough.

Yes, but it literally drives me insane the way it’s being overused by drama queens.

Besides, I thought you’d jump on the ’but Ramsey can still do a job in the Premiership’ bit, which admittedly is a step up from simply not being good enough, but still not near the actual truth that Ramsey is a top class player.

Truly amazed that anyone cannot see that was a double touch, especially when viewed from behind the taker. He goes to drill the ball low to keepers left and it lobs over where the keepers right shoulder was. Hilarious that BT comms couldn't see it after several re runs.

One angle only showed the goalkeeper deflected it back towards the goal. The comms went on to say it should be classified as an OG.

Your view is based on an assumption that this is the only way the ball could have loped up like that. You nor the refs are not experts in this field, if there is such an area of study. It is not based on physical evidence that shows 2 kicks. Without that the decision could not be overturned. The ref got it right as did the linesman.

Yes but the really clever people have moved passed that , and adopting the attitude one touch , two touches , twenty touches who cares we were sh**t .... had no gameplan , little desire , no heart and so lost the game .

Yes siree that's what the clued up brigade are thinking .

Seriously? He hits it with the instep of his left foot, it cannot possibly take the trajectory it did without a deflection, which on replay you can clearly see.

Could not care less about the result, or this current set up to be honest, but I'm always fascinated when errors are highlighted and still people cannot see the evidence before them. The comms, who I assume were ex players, still couldn't twig after several replays. Bizarrely they agreed between them that Debuchy had not committed a foul in the first place.

All part of "austerity measures" now we're out of the Champions(and 2nd, 3rd 4th) league.

Got to stay in profit, that is the #1 goal of KSE Inc.

Midtable here we come!.

Agreed, it was clear on the replays.

Prepare yourself for total disappointment when VAR arrives. Sorry I never seen any deflection from one foot to the other. Read some of my early posts. Coverage I had never proved conclusively it hit the other foot.

I understand completely your argument. Do you accept the ref and lino could not clearly see what happened without drawing assumptions that' this must have been what happened.'

On what I saw which was even more than the ref I could not draw on circumstantial evidence alone without any independent corroboration.

Lets all just look forward to the Chelsea first leg. That should be an absolute joy to behold. What could go wrong. I wonder what team we will play. That defensive team may need a few pointers before the big game.

You would have thought with all the recent controversy that the 4th official would have tipped them off when they had the conflab on the touch line. A bit of common sense sometimes goes a long way.

I know "I don't know" is an unfashionable term but I truly don't know. I do think it was almost a bizarre case of the slip bringing his feet together simultaneously and I don't know what the rules say on that. Is the "loop" only explicable by the second foot or could falling backwards provide that kind of uplift? I'm not a physicist so I don't know and I think the point Gaz is reasonably making is neither would the VAR refs so they would probably in the moment stick with a goal with no clear and decisive evidence to overturn. Obviously we may all disagree on what is clear and decisive but a bit like "umpire's call" in cricket we will just have to live with some decisions that are questionable not being overturned.

But Kiwi he didn't dive. He put the ball ahead of himself and ran into a defender and went over. You see that happen a lot, and often my sympathy is with the defenders. How can they get out of the way? Where are they supposed to go if a forward runs more or less straight at them? Yes the free kick that led to the goal was harsh, but our boy didn't dive to get it.