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Post #299601  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:57 am 
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Goonie wrote:
warrior wrote:
Jack Wilshere is officially the most fouled player in the Premier League

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... layer.html


Hope he signs a new contract with us soon. Think he can do the Cazorla role well but won't be too bad at the Özil role either.

I think it is a no brainer. I understand the risk of his injury record but we can't lose Jack for free. This isn't like Özil or Sanchez. Jack wants to play for us. With Jack playing as he is and with the protection of a 3/4 year deal then he is a £30m+ player.

Also, funny how Wenger has been moaning for years about better protection for players, but I saw as soon as Pep started asking for protection for players like De Bruyn the press were all over it agreeing with him. The only response Wenger ever got was to toughen our players up and deal with these sorts of tactics. I think we all knew at the time that it would need a serious injury to an england/media favourite for anyone to start noticing.


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Post #299602  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:30 pm 
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A few stories going around that Wenger may decide to move upstairs this summer and has earmarked Arteta as his potential successor. Whilst it's pleasing to see he may go I don't like this suggestion as Wenger would still be around to interfere with matters and his selection of Arteta who is a relative novice to manage a club of our size isn't preferable compared to other options.

If this occurred it would a disaster as our fans would be left to wait for a new dawn when a complete change of board and management would be required to liberate arsenal from Wengers clutches and create a modern new football club from the ashes and remains of what Wenger had left.

This only ends when Wenger goes and we rip down that ridiculous statue the board built of him.


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Post #299603  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Do you really think you can start doing stuff like this and it's not going to go to the managers head and create a superiority complex. What a joke


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Post #299604  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Anyway amid all the farcical bias against us from northern refs envious of our southern ways (they're only human) perfectly placed to see a player falling over but not the kick that preceded it, it falls upon me to try and restore a touch of levity by pointing out that Notts County have a right-back endearingly named Tootles. It made me laugh a lot especially as he was their Number 2. My son didn't think it was as funny as I did and kept saying "oh shut up, dad" whenever I shouted "played Tootles!". He can be disappointingly dour and disapproving at times - I get enough of that on here.

Looking forward to the game this afternoon - it's tempting to support the underdogs but FA cup wins are just so last season - I'll be cheering for Forest.

Tootles for now!


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Post #299605  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:12 pm 
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i saw a sign at Stoke that said 'Hughes Out'. Copy and paste that to any club he's managed since Blackburn. I notice (and I suspect it was always like this) there are several managers, British for the most part who basically play musical chairs in and out of the EPL and Championship more or less. I don't have the full listing but a few off the top of my head

Hughes
(fat Sam) Allardyce...yes, I will always refer to him as such
Pardew
(Chris) Coleman
Steve Bruce
Moyes
Pulis
Redknapp

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Post #299606  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:44 pm 

Regarding Hoy's point about no refs coming from London, whiich I accept looks odd, I'd say this regarding his idea this may go against Arsenal's best interests.

I'd have thought the two sets of supporters most anti-Arsenal were Tottenham and Chelsea fans. Not having any referees from London surely decreases the chances of getting Tottenham or Chelsea fans refereeing Arsenal games. I'd have thought anyway. In the long distant days when we used to compete for the title with Manchester United or Liverpool, I wouldn't have wanted fans of those clubs refereeing our games. But with those past exceptions, I'd much rather fans of north-east and yorkshire clubs, or north west teams at the moment taking charge of Arsenal's matches than Tottenham or Chelsea supporters.


  
 
 
Post #299607  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Anyway amid all the farcical bias against us from northern refs envious of our southern ways (they're only human) perfectly placed to see a player falling over but not the kick that preceded it, it falls upon me to try and restore a touch of levity by pointing out that Notts County have a right-back endearingly named Tootles. It made me laugh a lot especially as he was their Number 2. My son didn't think it was as funny as I did and kept saying "oh shut up, dad" whenever I shouted "played Tootles!". He can be disappointingly dour and disapproving at times - I get enough of that on here.

Looking forward to the game this afternoon - it's tempting to support the underdogs but FA cup wins are just so last season - I'll be cheering for Forest.

Tootles for now!

Perhaps Tootles could join my fledgling Drugs XI - so far I've only signed Bong from Brighton.


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Post #299608  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Regarding Hoy's point about no refs coming from London, whiich I accept looks odd, I'd say this regarding his idea this may go against Arsenal's best interests.

I'd have thought the two sets of supporters most anti-Arsenal were Tottenham and Chelsea fans. Not having any referees from London surely decreases the chances of getting Tottenham or Chelsea fans refereeing Arsenal games. I'd have thought anyway. In the long distant days when we used to compete for the title with Manchester United or Liverpool, I wouldn't have wanted fans of those clubs refereeing our games. But with those past exceptions, I'd much rather fans of north-east and yorkshire clubs, or north west teams at the moment taking charge of Arsenal's matches than Tottenham or Chelsea supporters.


I used to sit near Halsey's brother in the Clock End at Highbury. Apparently Mark Halsey is a Chelsea fan. Heard that he was anxious NOT to appear biased which is understandable.

The odious Mike Dean is merseyside based - like you I would have thought he might be as prejudiced - if not more - against Manchester clubs but my overwhelming suspicion is that he is the kind of preening *%^@ who would give red cards and penalties against anybody. The evidence does suggest he hates us but I'm not sure that's a London thing.


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Post #299609  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:11 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Daz wrote:
Anyway amid all the farcical bias against us from northern refs envious of our southern ways (they're only human) perfectly placed to see a player falling over but not the kick that preceded it, it falls upon me to try and restore a touch of levity by pointing out that Notts County have a right-back endearingly named Tootles. It made me laugh a lot especially as he was their Number 2. My son didn't think it was as funny as I did and kept saying "oh shut up, dad" whenever I shouted "played Tootles!". He can be disappointingly dour and disapproving at times - I get enough of that on here.

Looking forward to the game this afternoon - it's tempting to support the underdogs but FA cup wins are just so last season - I'll be cheering for Forest.

Tootles for now!

Perhaps Tootles could join my fledgling Drugs XI - so far I've only signed Bong from Brighton.


Charlie Austin must have a place?


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Post #299610  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Don’t refs have to declare their allegiance and then not ref any of their games?
Wasn’t there an issue when Leicester won the title that a Leicester supporting ref reffed a spurs game late in the season and people complained that he had an interest in spurs losing.
I don’t think refs go in to games deciding who they will or won’t give decisions to, but I do think certain situations influence refs.

Forgetting penalties, how often have we been bullied at home, bad tackles, roughed up and then had wenger complain about it after? Very rare. Compare it to how often that happened or was let to happen away from home. Games against Man U, Bolton and stoke are a prime example


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Post #299611  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:28 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Daz wrote:
Anyway amid all the farcical bias against us from northern refs envious of our southern ways (they're only human) perfectly placed to see a player falling over but not the kick that preceded it, it falls upon me to try and restore a touch of levity by pointing out that Notts County have a right-back endearingly named Tootles. It made me laugh a lot especially as he was their Number 2. My son didn't think it was as funny as I did and kept saying "oh shut up, dad" whenever I shouted "played Tootles!". He can be disappointingly dour and disapproving at times - I get enough of that on here.

Looking forward to the game this afternoon - it's tempting to support the underdogs but FA cup wins are just so last season - I'll be cheering for Forest.

Tootles for now!

Perhaps Tootles could join my fledgling Drugs XI - so far I've only signed Bong from Brighton.
Stashley Cole? Kaspar Smackal?

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Post #299612  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Gary Speed obvious choice as player/manager


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Post #299613  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:39 pm 

Daz wrote:
I used to sit near Halsey's brother in the Clock End at Highbury. Apparently Mark Halsey is a Chelsea fan. Heard that he was anxious NOT to appear biased which is understandable

Yes I've no doubt referees would want to appear unbiased. Indeed, that could make the fan of a specific club be harsher than normal on it when or if he takes their games.


  
 
 
Post #299614  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:42 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Perhaps Tootles could join my fledgling Drugs XI - so far I've only signed Bong from Brighton.
Stashley Cole? Kaspar Smackal?

Smackal would have to fight for a place with Rob Green. Stashley and Charlie Austin are in and I can confirm I've tempted the ex Celtic player Rafael 'good' Scheidt out of retirement.


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Post #299615  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Forgetting penalties, how often have we been bullied at home, bad tackles, roughed up and then had wenger complain about it after? Very rare.


You're kidding right? Wenger complains if other teams dare to set up defensively against us.


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Post #299616  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Anyway amid all the farcical bias against us from northern refs envious of our southern ways (they're only human) perfectly placed to see a player falling over but not the kick that preceded it, it falls upon me to try and restore a touch of levity by pointing out that Notts County have a right-back endearingly named Tootles. It made me laugh a lot especially as he was their Number 2. My son didn't think it was as funny as I did and kept saying "oh shut up, dad" whenever I shouted "played Tootles!". He can be disappointingly dour and disapproving at times - I get enough of that on here.

Looking forward to the game this afternoon - it's tempting to support the underdogs but FA cup wins are just so last season - I'll be cheering for Forest.

Tootles for now!


Wanka...........


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Post #299617  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Benzo Davies


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Post #299618  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Daz wrote:
Anyway amid all the farcical bias against us from northern refs envious of our southern ways (they're only human) perfectly placed to see a player falling over but not the kick that preceded it, it falls upon me to try and restore a touch of levity by pointing out that Notts County have a right-back endearingly named Tootles. It made me laugh a lot especially as he was their Number 2. My son didn't think it was as funny as I did and kept saying "oh shut up, dad" whenever I shouted "played Tootles!". He can be disappointingly dour and disapproving at times - I get enough of that on here.

Looking forward to the game this afternoon - it's tempting to support the underdogs but FA cup wins are just so last season - I'll be cheering for Forest.

Tootles for now!


Wanka...........


Is that the drug that makes you incapable of seeing what you are looking straight at?


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Post #299619  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Benzo Davies

In. Plus former West Ham star Ade Cokehead.


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Post #299620  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Surprised the old man left out the star player, Diego Marajuana.

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Post #299621  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:02 pm 
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When it comes to football in England we all know through our own supporter exerience most people north of Watford can't abide Arsenal. For most of living memory we were the biggest and most successful London team and were seen as part of the rich establishment. This got on a lot of northern and midland folks' tits, and still does. We all know this is true by the zeal with which any victory over us is celebrated, or the half-hearted congratulations we get when victorious. Like Australia beating England at cricket, beating Arsenal is much more significant than a sports result. Envy; big time v small time; local pride; tripe and onions v pie and mash or whatever. You can understand why it happens. As time goes by and Chelsea continue to succeed they will probably inherit our role and we will drop back more into the "We beat Tottenham or West Ham, so what?" category. Until then don't be surprised over doubtful decisions by officials who cannot avoid carrying their regional biases into games.

I would like to know why there are no officials from London and the south-east.

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Post #299622  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:02 pm 
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David McCracken - a Scot - made two appearances for Brentford!


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Post #299623  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:03 pm 
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The fuhrer is clearly a little bitter ....


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Post #299624  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Rich wrote:
Forgetting penalties, how often have we been bullied at home, bad tackles, roughed up and then had wenger complain about it after? Very rare.


You're kidding right? Wenger complains if other teams dare to set up defensively against us.
Unlike any other manager?

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Post #299625  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Ospina
Debuchy, per, holding
Nelson, Willicombe, elneny, amn
Walcott, iwobi
Welbeck

Chambers plus youth on the bench


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Post #299626  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Kieran Trippy-er.


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Post #299627  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:10 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
The fuhrer is clearly a little bitter ....

That'll make the new boy feel welcome :20hospitals:


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Post #299628  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Charlie Nicotine for an extra bit of potency up front.

Nigel Reo Coker.

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Post #299629  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Surprised the old man left out the star player, Diego Marajuana.
Surely Danny Morphine is the better option?

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Post #299630  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:19 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
When it comes to football in England we all know through our own supporter exerience most people north of Watford can't abide Arsenal. For most of living memory we were the biggest and most successful London team and were seen as part of the rich establishment. This got on a lot of northern and midland folks' tits, and still does. We all know this is true by the zeal with which any victory over us is celebrated, or the half-hearted congratulations we get when victorious. Like Australia beating England at cricket, beating Arsenal is much more significant than a sports result. Envy; big time v small time; local pride; tripe and onions v pie and mash or whatever. You can understand why it happens. As time goes by and Chelsea continue to succeed they will probably inherit our role and we will drop back more into the "We beat Tottenham or West Ham, so what?" category. Until then don't be surprised over doubtful decisions by officials who cannot avoid carrying their regional biases into games.

I would like to know why there are no officials from London and the south-east.


What I like most about this piece of insightful analysis is the way you resist any temptations to import your own biases and assumptions into it. Just hard evidence-based reasoning - chapeau, Hoy!

One teeny question, how long does it take this envy transfer to take place? Because by my reckoning Chelsea have won the PL five times since we last did and the ECL once. Is it just that the midlands and the northern folks are a bit slow and therefore late to cotton on to the shift in power relations?


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Post #299631  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Ospina
Debuchy, per, holding
Nelson, Willicombe, elneny, amn
Walcott, iwobi
Welbeck

Chambers plus youth on the bench


Pass to Debuchy on the right hand side.


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Post #299632  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Rich wrote:
Ospina
Debuchy, per, holding
Nelson, Willicombe, elneny, amn
Walcott, iwobi
Welbeck

Chambers plus youth on the bench


Pass to Debuchy on the right hand side.

So presumably it's musical youth on the bench with Chambers.


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Post #299633  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Hubble-bubble Chris can run the fan club.


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Post #299634  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:26 pm 
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https://open.spotify.com/track/5JOO8UMaEpOfhhatQQsAqm

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Post #299635  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Grassana Diarra.

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Post #299636  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Grassana Diarra.

:laughing7:


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Post #299637  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Daz wrote:
What I like most about this piece of insightful analysis is the way you resist any temptations to import your own biases and assumptions into it. Just hard evidence-based reasoning - chapeau, Hoy!

One teeny question, how long does it take this envy transfer to take place? Because by my reckoning Chelsea have won the PL five times since we last did and the ECL once. Is it just that people from the midlands and the north are a bit slow and therefore late to cotton on to the shift in power relations?
Completely evidence-based. Any Arsenal man who has travelled into the shit-holes of the north and midlands to support our guys will confirm the strength of the hatred of The Arsenal amongst the locals. It is undeniable.

On envy transfer, yes for the supporters of northern and midland teams, Chelsea are probably already the most despised London team due to their success and wealth. Arsenal are still well hated though, not so much these days for envy of their onfield abilities, but mostly due to the ridiculous squealing of a vocal minority of their more entitled, fragile fans. Even the self-pitying Scousers find us absurd in that respect.

On the biases of officials from the provinces it will take a bit longer for them to replace Arsenal with Chelsea simply because they are usually in their 30s/40s before they get to ref in the Premier League. When the current batch were growing up as United, Liverpool, etc. fans Chelsea were but a smallish, unthreatening team who occasionally won a cup. Arsenal were the London team to despise. If the same cock-eyed structure with most officials coming from outside London and the south-east continues unreformed then I reckon by 2030s the bias against Chelsea will become more obvious as the young northern and midland boys of the turn of the millenium reach the age to become Premiership refs.

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Post #299638  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Got it. Colour me totally convinced. I think in years to come this piece of social anthropology will take its place alongside Oscar Lewis's "Five Families" and Wilmott and Young's "Family and Kinship in East London".


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Post #299639  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:09 pm 
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The game is on ESPN2 in Aus.


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Post #299640  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:13 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
So you don't believe Mike Dean to be biased against us, despite a massive statistical disparity over an 18 years sample size (the largest in several decades) that suggest we not only get less preferential decisions from us on average than every other top flight team, but that also we are proportionally over a 3rd less likely with him in charge?


Yeah he probably doesn't like us much as I've said elsewhere - my point was simply that he is also a total *%^@ in general. And bad decisions like WBA do happen to all clubs from one ref or another. There is no general bias or conspiracy against Arsenal though.

Your last para is a bit of a stream of consciousness.


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