Supporters Forum

TOP GUN · **#425881**

Rich wrote:

AmericanGooner wrote:

Piggybacking on Rich's post. I said the same about Özil. Either build a team around him that plays to his strengths or sell him. People criticize his defensive nous at times but that was never one of his strengths. At Real Madrid he had other players to do the heavy lifting. For Özil to be fully effective that would have to happen or you change him and his style of play. The EPL is such that you can't have him perform in the role he did in la Liga. The EPL is a much different league where successful sides needs a much more team defense from all players. The pace is faster, counters happen quicker than a much slower paced league.
I think Özil to his credit has improved in areas he wasn't before. First of all he is a much tougher player. He takes tackles and physical play much, much better. He attacks and puts himself on the receiving end of passes much more than he has before. Now that we have made him more of an EPL player other sides want him now.

Where Özil suffers is that nobody criticises a workmanlike striker in a poor team for not scoring 20 goals a season, because he is paying to his maximum natural ability. The things Özil is torn to shreds for are seen as the things that come for free in football - effort, desire, commitment, tracking back etc. It is a tough one because I wouldn't ever excuse not doing those things every game and I think much of what has been said about Özil is true and at times he has looked uninterested but I can sympathise with players who are being asked to do a job without being given the tools or players around them to do that job.

The thing is if you put yourself in Ozils shoes it must be frustrating when your clearly world class and you obviously know the players around you aren't good enough. I mean he was playing in front of Coquelin for a decent while clearly he must know from his career he's not good enough..... Giroud ... el Nenny etc It must affect your motivation

AmericanGooner · **#425882**

Bias or favortism in sports journalism, isn't limited to football. Baseball journos choose the Hall of Fame members. Hank Aaron who had the most home runs ever for a career was not a unanimous choice. He broke the long standing and iconic Babe Ruth's record which some thought could never be equaled. No scandal (your moral character is taken into consideration). They don't tell you who didn't vote for him but its something I wanted to know for years. I want to hear the reasons why certain journalists didn't vote for him.

Decaf · **#425883**

TOP GUN wrote:

Rich wrote:

Where Özil suffers is that nobody criticises a workmanlike striker in a poor team for not scoring 20 goals a season, because he is paying to his maximum natural ability. The things Özil is torn to shreds for are seen as the things that come for free in football - effort, desire, commitment, tracking back etc. It is a tough one because I wouldn't ever excuse not doing those things every game and I think much of what has been said about Özil is true and at times he has looked uninterested but I can sympathise with players who are being asked to do a job without being given the tools or players around them to do that job.

The thing is if you put yourself in Ozils shoes it must be frustrating when your clearly world class and you obviously know the players around you aren't good enough. I mean he was playing in front of Coquelin for a decent while clearly he must know from his career he's not good enough..... Giroud ... el Nenny etc It must affect your motivation

By that reasoning he should buckle down now and start producing the goods, with Sanchez, Lacazette, Ramsey all buzzing around him making runs, creating space, and able to finish. The roll royce engine, the oil ... but are the spark plugs firing?

Decaf · **#425884**

Rich wrote:

AmericanGooner wrote:

Piggybacking on Rich's post. I said the same about Özil. Either build a team around him that plays to his strengths or sell him. People criticize his defensive nous at times but that was never one of his strengths. At Real Madrid he had other players to do the heavy lifting. For Özil to be fully effective that would have to happen or you change him and his style of play. The EPL is such that you can't have him perform in the role he did in la Liga. The EPL is a much different league where successful sides needs a much more team defense from all players. The pace is faster, counters happen quicker than a much slower paced league.
I think Özil to his credit has improved in areas he wasn't before. First of all he is a much tougher player. He takes tackles and physical play much, much better. He attacks and puts himself on the receiving end of passes much more than he has before. Now that we have made him more of an EPL player other sides want him now.

Where Özil suffers is that nobody criticises a workmanlike striker in a poor team for not scoring 20 goals a season, because he is paying to his maximum natural ability. The things Özil is torn to shreds for are seen as the things that come for free in football - effort, desire, commitment, tracking back etc. It is a tough one because I wouldn't ever excuse not doing those things every game and I think much of what has been said about Özil is true and at times he has looked uninterested but I can sympathise with players who are being asked to do a job without being given the tools or players around them to do that job.

The other thing about Özil is that he 'looks uninterested' because of his natural body language and the conventional wisdom amongst the half-educated. Yet the stats say otherwise. People used to complain about Pires and Bergkamp too (although of course it is rose coloured specs now). Fans need to get a life sometimes.

john1 · **#425885**

Not only do we need a class defensive midfielder, we also need a new keeper. I've not been convinced by Čech since the beginning of last season, and if Mertesacker is 'past it' (I don't think he is) then Čech is definitely so. His errors are becoming more regular, and his performances aren't filling me with confidence.

bubblechris · **#425886**

TOP GUN wrote:

he's not good enough..... Giroud ...

Are you serious?

TOP GUN · **#425887**

bubblechris wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

he's not good enough..... Giroud ...

Are you serious?

Coquelin, Giroud.

You think you can win the league with those 2 in your starting line up. ?

Gaz from Oz · **#425888**

TOP GUN wrote:

bubblechris wrote:

Are you serious?

Coquelin, Giroud.

You think you can win the league with those 2 in your starting line up. ?

We've got a manager who for 10 years thought we would with Theo in the team, so I am not sure you can criticise others for having views on Coq and Giroud.

TOP GUN · **#425889**

Gaz from Oz wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Coquelin, Giroud.

You think you can win the league with those 2 in your starting line up. ?

We've got a manager who for 10 years thought we would with Theo in the team, so I am not sure you can criticise others for having views on Coq and Giroud.

I'm not criticising. Let's give bubblechris an award or something for being as stupid as Wenger.

bubblechris · **#425890**

TOP GUN wrote:

Gaz from Oz wrote:

We've got a manager who for 10 years thought we would with Theo in the team, so I am not sure you can criticise others for having views on Coq and Giroud.

I'm not criticising. Let's give bubblechris an award or something for being as stupid as Wenger.

again with the insults you little schoolboy. There is only one stupid child I know on this forum tht wants us to play without Giroud, and that is the dumbest *%^@ up of all. Need I remind you how many goals Giroud has scored for us. Goals that were in many cases invaluable.

Does anybody else think that Giroud is a waste of space?

Lincoln gooner · **#425891**

bubblechris wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

I'm not criticising. Let's give bubblechris an award or something for being as stupid as Wenger.

again with the insults you little schoolboy. There is only one stupid child I know on this forum tht wants us to play without Giroud, and that is the dumbest *%^@ up of all. Need I remind you how many goals Giroud has scored for us. Goals that were in many cases invaluable.

Does anybody else think that Giroud is a waste of space?

I don't think he's a waste of space, but I don't think he's good enough to be a starter in a top side either.

Gaz from Oz · **#425892**

bubblechris wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

I'm not criticising. Let's give bubblechris an award or something for being as stupid as Wenger.

again with the insults you little schoolboy. There is only one stupid child I know on this forum tht wants us to play without Giroud, and that is the dumbest *%^@ up of all. Need I remind you how many goals Giroud has scored for us. Goals that were in many cases invaluable.

Does anybody else think that Giroud is a waste of space?

I am really not interested in getting in this game but history will tell us a great team is formed because of all forming a cohesive unit with some great and some not so great players (balance). Ray Parlour was not one of the great players but he was a great team player and made a difference. Giroud has been a good player. We all have our opinions but I personally (my opinion) would prefer Giroud to many others.

Gaz from Oz · **#425893**

One thing I forgot to mention - if you get the best goal of the year in an award he may not be too bad.

Decaf · **#425894**

Gaz from Oz wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention - if you get the best goal of the year in an award he may not be too bad.

And its not like that goal was fluke. He has a nice collection of that sort of goal. Plus he does the 'blunt instrument' well too.

But there is no denying that his lack of pace is problematic.

TOP GUN · **#425895**

Gaz from Oz wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention - if you get the best goal of the year in an award he may not be too bad.

Oh come off it that was a total fluke, expression of shock on his face.

He's not a bad player but he's not a top player. I take smudger over him every day of the week

TOP GUN · **#425896**

bubblechris wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

I'm not criticising. Let's give bubblechris an award or something for being as stupid as Wenger.

again with the insults you little schoolboy. There is only one stupid child I know on this forum tht wants us to play without Giroud, and that is the dumbest *%^@ up of all. Need I remind you how many goals Giroud has scored for us. Goals that were in many cases invaluable.

Does anybody else think that Giroud is a waste of space?

I didn't say that.

Out of 100,000 sperm, were you really the fastest? Please confirm

bubblechris · **#425897**

Funny how others seem to agree with me that you are dissing Giroud and his value to the team.

At least I don't have to pick my father out of a lineup of possible or do I mean probable miscreants soft lad.

Bernard1 · **#425898**

TOP GUN wrote:

Out of 100,000 sperm, were you really the fastest? Please confirm

Isn't it usually between 100m and 200m, not 100k?

On your Giroud discussion, I'm close to bromley's viewpoint. He's quite good and there are a lot around who are below his level. But I'd normally expect the title winner's first choice striker to be better than him.

TOP GUN · **#425899**

Bernard wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Out of 100,000 sperm, were you really the fastest? Please confirm

Isn't it usually between 100m and 200m, not 100k?

I’m not sure Bernard. I was way out in front and didn’t look behind me to see who was catching up

Lincoln gooner · **#425900**

Since we’re on the subject, did you know that the woman’s body views sperm as unwanted invaders, rather like a virus, and mobilises their immune response to kill most of them? Any sperm that gets anywhere near an egg is a very lucky little blighter.

john1 · **#425901**

bromley gooner wrote:

Since we’re on the subject, did you know that the woman’s body views sperm as unwanted invaders, rather like a virus, and mobilises their immune response to kill most of them? Any sperm that gets anywhere near an egg is a very lucky little blighter.

A spawny git??

So no-one disagrees with me that Čech is well past it? Or that Mert is still worthy of a place in the team?
Or do I have to insult someone to get a conversation going?

bubblechris · **#425902**

I definitely agree with you that Čech is not the best of the keepers out there and that we should be looking for his successor. But he's the least of our problems imo.

john1 · **#425903**

bubblechris wrote:

I definitely agree with you that Čech is not the best of the keepers out there and that we should be looking for his successor. But he's the least of our problems imo.

I think the position is the second most important to resolve, after a proper hard defensive midfielder who can shield the back four.

Have you got the time to list your concerns, in their priority order? I'd be interested in others' views on that too.

Reason being I'm having a good old argument with my dad (age 93 and a supporter since just after WW2) and his best mate (age 84 and another Arsenal supporter since the late 40s) about what we are lacking to enable us to properly compete again. Once you get past their assertion that we don't kick the ball far enough and quickly enough up the field (Charles Hughes POMO anyone?), or we don't shoot enough, they do show a remarkable tactical nous which I've enjoyed listening to.

They both argue a new keeper is our top priority - apparently Čech would not be fit to lace Kelsey's boots.

Lincoln gooner · **#425904**

john1 wrote:

bromley gooner wrote:

Since we’re on the subject, did you know that the woman’s body views sperm as unwanted invaders, rather like a virus, and mobilises their immune response to kill most of them? Any sperm that gets anywhere near an egg is a very lucky little blighter.

A spawny git??

So no-one disagrees with me that Čech is well past it? Or that Mert is still worthy of a place in the team?
Or do I have to insult someone to get a conversation going?

I would say Čech is still pretty decent. Mert still has quality and if fully fit he’d be in my team given the current options.
Our biggest problem imo is not having a coach who can find a better balance between attack and defence.

john1 · **#425905**

bromley gooner wrote:

john1 wrote:

A spawny git??

So no-one disagrees with me that Čech is well past it? Or that Mert is still worthy of a place in the team?
Or do I have to insult someone to get a conversation going?

I would say Čech is still pretty decent. Mert still has quality and if fully fit he’d be in my team given the current options.
Our biggest problem imo is not having a coach who can find a better balance between attack and defence.

Cheers Brom - I'm almost immune to thinking about the manager these days. Which is a shame, as I used to think so much of him.

As others have said, the root cause is the ownership. Wasn't that Moshiri bloke at Everton linked with us at one time?

Decaf · **#425906**

TOP GUN wrote:

Gaz from Oz wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention - if you get the best goal of the year in an award he may not be too bad.

Oh come off it that was a total fluke, expression of shock on his face.

That's ridiculous.

TOP GUN · **#425907**

Decaf wrote:

TOP GUN wrote:

Oh come off it that was a total fluke, expression of shock on his face.

That's ridiculous.

Ok so you feel that goal was absolutely an embodiment of Giroud time at Arsenal ! :1laughter:

Lincoln gooner · **#425908**

john1 wrote:

bromley gooner wrote:

I would say Čech is still pretty decent. Mert still has quality and if fully fit he’d be in my team given the current options.
Our biggest problem imo is not having a coach who can find a better balance between attack and defence.

Cheers Brom - I'm almost immune to thinking about the manager these days. Which is a shame, as I used to think so much of him.

As others have said, the root cause is the ownership. Wasn't that Moshiri bloke at Everton linked with us at one time?

Afternoon John. Moshiri is I believe mates with Uzmanov, so lets hope he doesn't persuade the Uzbek to take his money to Everton and leave Stan as ultimate dictator. :20hospitals:

john1 · **#425909**

bromley gooner wrote:

john1 wrote:

Cheers Brom - I'm almost immune to thinking about the manager these days. Which is a shame, as I used to think so much of him.

As others have said, the root cause is the ownership. Wasn't that Moshiri bloke at Everton linked with us at one time?

Afternoon John. Moshiri is I believe mates with Uzmanov, so lets hope he doesn't persuade the Uzbek to take his money to Everton and leave Stan as ultimate dictator. :20hospitals:

He looked well chuffed sitting next to Kenwright at the match - a strange grin on his face almost as if he was looking forward to sacking Koeman.

bubblechris · **#425910**

I still think the priority is to sort out the midfield two.

We must replace Cazorla and next to whoever takes this position must be a defensive minded midfielder.

Jack i'd love to make it but if the attacking midfielder becomes his remit means there's no room for Ramsey.

Thankfully I'm not the manager...........

Lincoln gooner · **#425911**

Macey, Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Maitland-Niles, Wilshire, Coquelin, Nelson, Iwobi, Walcott, Giroud.

It's the midweek team. Should be enough to win.

bubblechris · **#425912**

Not sure about the back line. Let's hope Debouchy gives us the benefit of his experience and controls their play.

Rich · **#425913**

Mainland-Nile’s with a classic case of arsenalitus, played through on the left of the box and can see the gk, it is a narrow ish angle but refuses to pull the trigger, instead squares it for no one.
So frustrating when players do that. We’ve played 15 minutes and it’s the only time we’ve properly opened them up and we refuse to shoot.

Rich · **#425914**

Great save from their gk, point blank header from holding from a corner

Rich · **#425915**

Norwich lead 1-0. First effort on goal. Arsenal have totally dominated.

Where have we heard this before

Rich · **#425916**

Our attacking set plays are such an advantage for the opposition to counter simply because we don’t position players for any clearance. Just then we put a ball in the box and had 6 or 7 players attack it, that is 6 or 7 players going for the ball or so far ahead of the game they’ve basically taken themselves out of the game. It gets cleared to the edge of the box with a weakish header and there’s two Norwich players who can stride 35-40 yards. That shouldn’t be a counter attack, at worst it should be arsenal recycling the ball, at best it is a first time shot at goal from the edge of the box. This happens every game why is no one fixing this on the training pitch?

Rich · **#425917**

Ht 0-1. Nothing we haven’t seen before under typical wenger style.
Arsenal dominate, give up an easy chance, trail 1-0. Refuse to shoot, lots of sideways passing. Epitomised by the last 30 seconds of the half, arsenal passing it side to side around their box, refs rarely blow for HT when a team is on an attack but I think the ref just got bored and knew we wouldn’t put in a cross or shot so just blew up. If you know it’s the last kick of the half just take a shot.

Walcott is completely lost in this formation, adds nothing.
I’m struggling to work out who is playing what position in central midfield, coquelin seems to be making Ramsey type runs forward, iwobi and Wilshere are sometimes deep sometimes No.10s, even elneny is basically playing holding mid.

Pretty boring football from arsenal

Rich · **#425918**

The biggest head scratcher from that half is coquelin (not that he’s still at the club) but that wenger insists on trying to play him in this high defensive be press role.
1) I assume this is wengers plan because if he’s either just letting players do what they want and not changing it or they aren’t doing what he says and he’s not changing it then we’re in even bigger trouble
2) coq, A’s a limited footballer has proven effective in a holding mid role where he can put out fires and his tenacity can win it back and distribute it simply to more talented players

bubblechris · **#425919**

Rich wrote:

The biggest head scratcher from that half is coquelin (not that he’s still at the club) but that wenger insists on trying to play him in this high defensive be press role.
1) I assume this is wengers plan because if he’s either just letting players do what they want and not changing it or they aren’t doing what he says and he’s not changing it then we’re in even bigger trouble
2) coq, A’s a limited footballer has proven effective in a holding mid role where he can put out fires and his tenacity can win it back and distribute it simply to more talented players

Biggest disappointment for me is that our back line just doesn't play as a unit as do some of the better sides. Mind you nor do the rest of the team. As Rich said nobody seems to know what they should be doing nor where they should be playing. This was a must game for Mert.

Rich · **#425920**

Norwich the better team now, without the ball we are a mess, too many players trying to do too much, sloppy passing in possession and no one with any idea of the position in central midfield.

I’d bring Willock on for coquelin

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