Considering Sanchez and Özil will either leave in January for a fraction of their market value, or in the summer for nothing, how likely do you think four (two in each window) Lacazette and Kolasinac signings are?

We could have killed the game off, but laboured over our offensive play towards the latter part. Wenger decides to bring in 2 ineffective substitutions in Özil and Giroud. Özil wasn't defending, and the midfield was easily over-ran. Giroud was headign/passing the ball to on one. And he wasn't even holding the ball up. Wilshere would have done better than Özil, at least in wanting to defend. He would have wanted to show he is ready to be in first consideration. Per was clearly tiring towards the end of the game. Wenger just don't have the tactical nous to defend a lead.

I think moaning about refs diverts attention away from Wenger and from an even bigger problem than him regarding blame - Kroenke. Which may explain why Wenger takes every opportunity to do it.

I'm not a fan of Kroenke by any means the blokes a disaster but I think it's quite hard to say he's totally responsible for our decline whilst Wenger is in charge. He can only really be judged after a second manager has had some time to look at things.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect some improvement from a new manager if he could set us up so we are hard to beat. Then would this change our opinion on Kroenke? What I'm saying is it's hard to judge the owners whilst Wenger is screwing up to such an extent.

Dunno how anyone can moan about refs anymore after ten years of capitulations. I'm surprised anyone cares anymore

I'm also surprised that Kevin Witcher has managed to make his gooner editorials in the last ten years entertaining still despite having to cover the same stuff over and over and the Tuesday club lads should be knighted for trying to avoid the obvious for a decade

Interesting shout on Marco Silva, Bernard. I think we could have a scenario where Wenger leaves this season. I think it really may get that bad if we hit another poor patch, as we tend too perennially.

Good post too Rich. Makes you realise that for how well run we were in the late 90s and early 00s, we are run absolutely dreadfully now. It’s an absolute clusterfuck. We have no answer to the new dynamic in the PL, yet other teams, with far less than we have, have adapted better.

Premier League away points 2017
Spurs 32
Man C 29
Chelsea 29
Man U 26
Liverpool 20
So'ton 17
Swansea 15
Arsenal, W Ham, Watford, Burnley 14

But we don't have a new manager because...

Think you missed the point of John's post, Bernard as it was a Derry man who delivered the winning goal....

Yesterday was a shambles, so bored of it now and so bored watching this team. So slow and laborious. Lacking in so many areas, creativity, desire and as Deeney said - cojones...

Why Wenger is substituting Lacazette after 65 minutes every week is beyond me....

Not to excuse Wenger but it is not all his fault. It seems to be a total shambles behind the scenes....

Exactly Wilts. Top Gun, I'm not saying Kroenke is "totally responsible for our decline". It's in my view largely a joint effort between Kroenke and Wenger. But if I had the chance of getting rid of one or the other it would be Kroenke who, after all, is the reason Wenger got a new contract.

As a consequence of Kroenke going, I think a new owner would sack Wenger anyway. So getting rid of the main problem, Kroenke, would also get rid of the second problem, Wenger. I doubt Wenger going first would get rid of Kroenke.

Bernard, you are so right.

Amongst other clubs Glyn and Ian Snodin both played for Leeds, and Ian also played for Everton.

When was the last time everyone thought Arsenal had a good shot at the league?. I think 2008 or 2009 was about the last time I felt confident that there was a title winning team in there. Hard to believe that the 8-2 mauling was 6 years ago now.

Because our supporters aren't vocal enough inside the ground to insist on the removal of the manager. What other mistakes has kroenke made apart from sacking arsene ? Can't be many. We spend plenty of cash on players. You may kid yourself but Kroenke is a minor factor apart from his decision not to remove the manager (which i think is coming)

So Everton up next. Everton are a team going through a torrid time, very low on confidence and generally having the feeling that any mistake they make ends up in a goal against them.

The way not to play away from home to a team in this state is to come out of the traps like a tortoise, let the home team build some confidence, dawdle on the ball to allow the home team to 'get in our faces' to let the crowd cheer something, crowd and players feed off each other but the quality isn't quite there for the home team but at least they've found some heart. Also make sure you never really test the fragile and nervous defence by committing defenders or making the gk save shots. Simply funnelling the ball from side to side just tests the home sides shape and ability to drift defence their two banks of 4.

Eventually get sloppy in possession giving it away in key areas, giving up some set pieces which has the now rabid home fans ecstatic as they won't score any other way. Home said then nick the game with a set pieces goal and 35% possession.

Tell me if you've seen this before?

I think the FA need to crack down on managers abusing refs. I think a twelve month ban and deportation from the country is called for in this case.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 59371.html

On this subject, and like the rest of you I'm no Kroenke fan, but if the bloke is so obsessed with filthy lucre why didn't he insist that Sanchez was sold in Aug for the £60m on offer? Presumably if he did Wenger overruled him. We will take a £30m hit on that decision in Jan, don't suppose Silent Stan will be too happy about that.

As usual he's hiding behind a referee. Might have been a bad decision on Saturday but not as bad as his to sign on for another two years. An old man who is too selfish to admit what the rest of us know. His time is up.

Er.. We have Red Star Belgrade away up next Rich. That lovely Thursday slot. Everton away. Then a quick turnaround and Norwich League Cup match at Ems.

Ah yes of course. everton are at home in the europa midweek so I'm sure Wenger's excuse will be about extra rest for everton whilst we had to fly to belgrade and back

The squad looks wafer thin after a few injuries and the need to keep players fresh.

There are times when I think the club can't get any lower, the squad can't get any worse - but right now I don't think we've seen anything like the worst of it. If this season is already a shambles/nightmare/write off just wait for next season. We'll have a summer of exits and either a)insufficient replacements or b)a stupid trolly dash with no planning that leaves us lumbered with expensive players for years

I read something on the internet about the Deeney quote basically how many other players come out and openly mock or give away trade secrets against the opposition. The article asked why Ageuro didn't come out after his hat trick and tell everyone how he was so happy to be playing watford because their defence can't match his guile and pace and he knows exactly how to play against them.

They don't because it is unprofessional, but Arsenal have become such a laughing stock that anyone can line up and have a pop because they know everyone else, including Arsenal fans will agree with what they've said.

Deeney should get a hero's reception when Watford visit the Emirates

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/201 ... el-clears/

There you have it.

2 dead already in Ireland from the ex-hurricane Ophelia.

Stay safe lads....

Newcastle up for sale. I wonder if Usmanov will be interested?

Could we all chip in and persuade Kronke to buy them and sell our club?

Is Rafael Benitez a yesterday man or could he do a job for us. I'm sure he'll be considering a way out.

He would sort out the defence wouldn't he?

3 fatalities now, Niall.

It's just regular stormy weather here now but the wind was absolutely ferocious for a few hours earlier. Roches Point (about 10 miles from me) recorded a wind of 156km per hour. The tree in my front garden looked like it was going to come down but thankfully it didn't. Ive never seen it it this bad. Crazy stuff.

Wenger' 'legacy' will now only truly be judged after we see how long it takes us to bounce back from his horrible mismanagement of the last4 years. He had the same failings during the project youth but I was willing to give more slack then due to budget constraints - and given those constraints I'm not sure anyone could have done better.

In 30 years time when my kids and grand kids ask me about wenger I will tell them about the invincibles, the stadium but also the horrible mess he made after it. How deep he takes us will now be one of the biggest parts of his legacy.

How used have we all got to a bad defeat prompting the players to say it was a wake up call and it has been time for soul searching and they are determined to put it right, only for 5 or so games later the same thing happening again.

How can we have players openly admitting the opposition "wanted it more" twice in 6 months, palace away and now Watford away.

The opposition want it more because they know our guys aren't up for it.

How many players in our squad right now would you trust to put 100% commitment and professionalism in to every game? Now ask how many you think would be capable of that level of commitment under a new manager? All professional footballers are capable of that level of correct attitude, energy, desire etc, it is why they are professional footballers at the highest level having beaten millions to get there.

Personally I think you're wrong. The team was unbalanced AW's fault. We had a handful of chances to make it 2-0 but didn't take them. The substitutions were bad AW should have left Lacazette on and just brought on Özil who wasn't as bad as some said. He got involved but didn't seem to know where he should be. Imo his best position has been on the left facing goal and about 5-10 metres from the halfway line ready to float the ball into our players.

Xhaka was at fault for Cleverley's goal and should have been in his face not watching the ball flying around. He shouldn't play again till he proves his devotion to the team.

Bellerin yet again went in for a tackle unnecessarily. He should have been a foot away from their player and given him no room to get around him.

If both Ramsey and Wilshire are available one should always be on the pitch.

Playing Kos with Mertesacker was always an accident waiting to happen. One injured the other not match fit.

Kolasinac had probably his worst game for us to date. Soon as Deeney came on either him or Holding should have been told to stay with him. We always lose out to Drogba style forwards.

Sorry but I don't agree, although there are a large section of the support who don't want to 'insult' Wenger and so stay quiet, you don't see other owners waiting for things to get that bad, they make a decision because they want the club to move forward, Kroenke is clearly very happy with top 4 (and 5th seemingly, now that CL money is not such a big deal), I don't actually think he cares where we finish as long as we keep making a profit.

Is it a coincidence that we make a net profit when we drop out of the CL?, I'm not sure it is.

I just don't get this attitude that Kroenke has done nothing wrong, if he had any ambition at all he would not have renewed Wenger's contract both in 2014 and especially not in 2017, the sooner Wenger goes the better because maybe then people might see the wood for the trees.. when we have a 2nd rate nobody managing us and are lying in 7th place, we're nearly there already!.

Look at his US teams ffs, the evidence is clear - his brand is mediocrity (at best) and he is using Wenger as his shield, who is arrogant enough to ignore the flack with the help of £10M a year.

The other problem with Kroenke is lack of focus, he owns so many different teams in the US he cannot be focusing on Arsenal, he has just taken out a huge loan to build the new stadium in LA, we are Arsenal ffs, one of the top clubs in the world, we should be his main focus. If he doesn't want to then either f*ck off or hand over the reigns to Gazidis to make the decision on Wenger's future.

Everything a football club does should be geared towards results on the pitch, and should be judged against results on the pitch.

Far too many things are out club are simply not geared towards winning football matches.

what is it that Arsenal FC do really well to ensure great results on the pitch? im struggling to name a single thing we do better than any of Man U, city, Chelsea and Spurs.

We have discussed this before. The players are not held responsible because the loss is justified as being because of some other persons making.

I don't know how people can say we played well against Watford and were unlucky. Ian Wright said we played well as an example. There was to much sideways movement of the ball and no one capable of beating players or putting through the killer passes.

Lacazette is just now starting to understand Alexis frustrations. I noticed he started dropping deeper just to get the ball. Players arrive and their levels drop as they realise you don't have to put in a gut buster in this club.

Oh isn't it just devine. Two days rest after Belgrade prior to Everton match. Everton will be better rested. Expecting a knackered side for Arsenal, but more so with the Norwich game. AW may play youngsters for Norwich. We've needed replacements for ages. No telling what AW's tactics and player choices will be.

Antrim has got off lightly. No more than a heavy wind from 3-4. Night quiet... Another day wfh tomorrow.. Looks like the south bore the brunt.

I see Chesney has savaged Wenger, first Deeney now ches. it's open season on our hopeless manager. We are a laughing stock

An accurate brought summary of our situation as you can get

http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php ... eW2dtHTWhA

Scary stuff. I must check on my folks in Louth. We are having absolutely mad weather down here too.

Morning Top Gun. Though unlike you yesterday, he seems to place the main responsibility for it on the shoulders of Kroenke, not Wenger. Even though he clearly rates Wenger as useless, my impression from the piece is that he sees Kroenke as the bigger problem, if not far bigger. That wasn't the impression you were giving me yesterday about your own opinions.