We're not even bad today. Soft goal to concede but apart from that we've controlled the play and created lots of chances. Very frustrating.

Still the same old same old though. Flattering to deceive.

Toothless up front. Welbeck can't shoot or head properly. Lacazette anonymous. Too much passing outside their penalty area. Same old, same old.

Poor second half from us. Terrible goal to concede and too slow in our attacking. Not enough conviction.

Why didn't Bellerin go down? He's been learning too much from Walcott, all style no brain

It was off actually. Just. Unlucky with so little in it but technically correct.

Alexis is well missed. Wake up Wenger!

Nothing to do with the ref. We were not good enough in the second half.

Özil was shite.

Onside for sure. The replays I have seen show him onside.

Not sure toothless is accurate today. 10 shots on goal and a couple of them really close. On another day we win this.

Walcott has become such a hopeless player. Why is he even on the bench? Nelson could potentially do much better than him.

They must be showing different replays then. The freeze frame shows Lacazette's foot just in front of the defender.

True Haz but also a Groundhog Day - how many times has this been said in past few years?

My definition of toothless is an inability to put the ball in the net. The fact that we had so many attempts makes it worse.

Same old mess. To me we looked very ordinary. On that performance we haven't got a prayer of even contending for the title.

Thanks for the advice but I don't listen to BT Sport anyway, I watch with commentary off. I saw a freeze frame that showed his foot in front but if there is a different one I would be interested to see it. BBC also reporting it as correct call by the way so let's see what the evidence shows. Will be happy to change if I see evidence to the contrary.

Özil created plenty of chances today, which is his job. Lacazette didn't do much, Ox was terrible, Xhaka didn't contribute much at all going forward and Ramsey tried hard but didn't get it right. Won't even mention Walcott. Özil is about the last player I'd blame today. Thought Bellerin was good on the left as well.

Just emabarrased that at age 53 I still get suckered into believing we can - despite the evidence of the recent past

I'd say our problems in the past has been more about having a ton of possession but not creating chances. Today we created plenty.

Not even top 4

I agree with Dec, he made no more than 3 passes that were over 3 yards the rest were just a little side pass that I could have made and I'm 50 years older than him.
He's shite and contributes very little to the team.

Arsenal should bring out a book........."how to dominate a game and end up losing". Also known as " the definitive guide to shooting yourself in the foot".

Wait. Now on BT Sport are they saying onside. What should I think, Lomekian?

He is offside.

Looked offside from the freeze frame I saw. Shame because it was a wonderful goal.

Keown is talking rubbish.

Aint that the truth ........ A bloody shite team like Stoke can pump a few accurate balls forward and have us in a mad panic ...we don't do those uncouth things .

For one our passing is awful.......AND it's in our DNA to make to make at least three unnecessary passes in EVERY build up .

We don't get them at sixes and sevens , no , no that's not the way football should be played we have much more style ....we are craftsmen not tradesmen

..... we'd rather thread the f **&^^^ needle all match long against a packed defence .

Makes it worse , should have been 1 -1 new technology for next year would have overuled that decision ...why wait ??

Fair enough Haz, you see a half full glass and i see it half empty. Your optimism for Wenger and Arsenal is admirable. Wished i could feel the same. Wenger is passe, and he will bring us a rung lower during his next 2 years.

Some clubs you hate losing to for the right reasons. Stoke being one of them. And Hughes is one of the managers that seems to have a personal animus to Wenger (fat Sam and a couple others as well).

That said, the referee did miss some important calls. Two possible penalties, the Lacazette offside call. Even with that we were just not quite at the races. Dominated but a lot of pitty pat stuff from us as well. Stoke were dug in and had a lot of players behind the ball and it was tough to find space but their size and us having the ball around their box should have meant Giroud should have had more minutes on the pitch.

Welbeck's finishing or lack thereof didn't help matters. He's the 3rd striker and if he wants to move up, he knows he's got to do better. He's been playing wide but he prefers central positions. Better finishing will get him that chance.

Must be time for Arsene to make a last minute trolley dash for some dodgy Brazilian and a Korean nobody has heard of?.

P.S Ivan that catalyst still needs changing.

I thought Oxil was decent on the ball today, always looking to make something happen. However, out of possession he remains a liability. I'm not sure what the answer is.

There are very few players in the world that you can afford to carry defensively, the likes of Messi and Ronaldo spring to mind because they are such a threat going forward and they are playing in the two best teams in a league that doesn't have the strength in depth of the PL. I don't think Özil is quite at the level where he doesn't need to pitch in defensively.

I agree with your last 3 paragraphs a 100%
Very frustrating football from the team. I feel Özil slows down the play. But, that's Wenger's way

I think it's fair to say we aren't clinical. Welbeck had 3 or 4 half chances that a worldclass finisher probably converts at least one of.

Well we rarely attack against three men.

Indeed. We are weak.

If you mean the offside decision it would not have overruled it without a change in the law as well which is quite explicit about any part of the player's head, body or feet.

It was *%^@*** close and I'm amazed the Lino could see it but that's irrelevant since it was the correct decision according to the law and the evidence supplied so far.

I am becoming increasingly convinced by the Welbeck eyesight issue. There was one clear chance when I felt he clearly misjudged where the ball was. Shame because he's a lovely player to watch sometimes.

Bollocks ...... Chamberlain's style is to lose control of the ball then dive , same for "bootlaces tied together" Welbeck , Giroud same , Özil . Monreal ..... so many soft c*cks .

That pansy Pieters lying rigor mortis in our penalty area , that other Stoke *%^@ lay prone , crowd screams , we carry on then kick the ball out , then makes a miraculous recovery and gets up ....farcical .

It's a blight on the game and Mariner didn't fall for a lot of that sheight .

Not according to the two 'clever clogs' doing the commentary ... they replayed it several times saying it should have stood .

Okay ...couple of bits of toast and a coffee I'll watch the All Blacks , that should restore the spirits .

Sort our bloody defence out. Mustafi is such a disappointment. Lunges in, gets turned easily, horrible passes. But he's aggressive and intercepts well so if the setup is correct, he'd be a lot better than today. That means play Monreal at left *%^@*** cb and Kolasinac in his natural position. In any case we need another defender, stop *%^@*** around and buy one.

Xhaka was poor and Welbeck fluffed several chances. The guy struggles to make clean contact in front of goal. We should have had a pen at least once and the Lacazette strike probably should have stood. Just an incredibly frustrating performance. The kind only Arsenal can produce. Özil lost it a couple of times but easily our best player. Created all of our good moments.

If the frame showing his foot in front of the defender is the last piece of evidence we have then he was offside. Agonisingly close but categorically so according to Law 11.