Morning Soc.

Seeing as it's the Daily Express, I would take that story with a rather large pinch of salt. I wouldn't even trust that UKIP backing rag with getting the date right.

Watched Alexis in the confed cup and even after extra time he was full of running. No need for one of Wengers enforced layoffs with him.

15 days to our first game. to you Hoy xoxoxoxoxox - give peace a chance

Even if it is true, it has to be the clearest ever example of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If Wenger spent money on those two in 2015, after they had ONE full season in Ligue 1, he would’ve been lynched by Arsenal fans for persisting with getting young French talent on the cheap instead of opening the cheque book and signing top class players.

Agree. These are exactly the kind of signings he gets castigated for before they've even kicked a ball in anger.

Full of running he was but how effective was he? I remember a fantastic through pass that gave his teammate an opportunity to score in the first half but not much else. The occasional strops and arguments with the ref. Pretty normal for him huh? A brilliantly skilful player who lacks basic control?

He should be at centre forward or a supporting no 10 where he can be more effective do you disagree?

Well he was better than Ronaldo but your points are well made. I don't know whether I would go as far as saying lacks basic control. The teams neutralised each other so it wasn't one of the great games but I thought he was okay and probably better than all other players at our club other than Özil when playing well.

With these bunch of old geezers on here, this has to apply to some of you. I hope all of us at least take a look. It may save yours or someone you love their life.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnj0nmtwVbI[/youtube]

Would he really have been lynched though? Not every youngster will turn out like Vieira or Anelka. Grondin and Alidiere for a start. Or moving beyond France, Fabregas or Merida were at opposite ends in terms of how their Arsenal careers turned out. I'd have thought most people realise that and accept it. Even in more recent times, how many castigated Wenger for signing Adelaide, Eisfeld, Zelalem or Holding? Of those Eisfeld didn't make it, most people have high hopes for Holding and it's anyone's guess regarding Adelaide and Zelalem. But I seem to recall there was a fair bit of optimism over Adelaide and Zelalem.

Sorry but I think you may be overstating how anti people are to bringing in new youngsters. I can understand why some would want older players who are more likely to have an immediate impact signed alongside youngsters. Isn't that sensible anyway? But that doesn't mean they're against the signing of youngsters or inexperienced players.

Didn't mind this video of a supporters treat for some Man City fans - a taxi ride with pep. Check out the young boy and how happy he is.

https://dugout.com/mancity/tbt-pep-shoc ... -in-a-taxi

As Shankly used to used to say people said Liverpool were predictable "yes like Joe Louis we always knock our opponent out". Knowing what a team are going to do and actually beating them are two different things. I think defensively we'll be fine.

Nobody would have been popping the champagne corks, Haz, but signing young rising french stars and developing them used to be his forte.

I would have been excited because as Bernard and others have said in the past he actually remains a relatively good judge of a young player. It's just he can't seem to able to, or is unwilling to, get these kind of deals over the line anymore.

Funnily enough I still actually get quite excited when we do bring a few youngsters in because I know we aren't going to be getting superstars at the peak of their careers but we do have a chance when they are younger and for all his faults I do believe Wenger remains a decent judge of a young player's potential. Vieira, Anelka, Henry, Fabregas, RVP all spring to mind.

Your comparison is way off - Eisfeld, Zelalem and Adelaide were brought in as youth players, and was never meant for the first team right away. Holding was the only one of those four who was already a senior player (and he wasn’t exactly met with universal approval from Arsenal fans). Lemar and Kante would’ve been 19 and 24 respectively, and would’ve been signings for the first team.

Surely it’s not controversial to point out that Wenger has been criticized for choosing to spend money on cheaper and lesser known players (particularly from France) rather than spending big on established stars? Now he gets criticized for doing the opposite.

Well, I think there’s another reason he used to make those signings apart from being a good judge of talent – we couldn’t afford to go for the big stars. Now we do, and that is probably a bigger reason for our apparent change in transfer policy than Wenger not being able to or not wanting to make those deals.

So with Holding, has your argument changed from Wenger would have been lynched to not being met with universal approval? I honestly think most Arsenal fans wait to see a player before criticising Wenger for signing him. I wonder how many had seen the likes of Cygan, Boa Morte, Gabriel and maybe even Giroud before they arrived? I honestly don't recall Wenger getting judged, nor criticised, by fans before seeing them play. Sylvestre is different because people knew what he was like from his time at Manchester United. Sorry, but I do think you're overstating things a bit. I would have been really excited about Kante and Lemar because I, along with the likes of socrates, Rich and perhaps others, still rate Wenger as a pretty good judge of talent.

It has happened frequently, whether you recall it or not.

I honestly don't know what else to say. You're not arguing against me as much as you're arguing against the last ten years worth of discussion on every Arsenal forum.

Okay, how many players can you recall Wenger getting criticised here for signing before people had seen them play, and by who? I remember plenty after people had seen them play, but I'm struggling to remember many who attracted moans before from a sizable number of fans.

They starting the season early then? Hope they don't miss the flight back from Aussie. Otherwise a rather easy three points for Leicester.

Isn't the point being made that certain people are against Arsene Wenger bringing in youngsters, or anything else he does for that matter? Its so ZZZZ.

I remember Niall getting excited about Wiltord when he played for Deportivo.

Criticism of Wenger for not signing Kante in 2015 is a bit silly. At the time he was a 24 year old with one season in top flight French football under his belt. A season in which his team finished in the bottom half of the league.

That was Coquelin's breakthrough season for us so if we were going to sign a defensive midfielder it was going to be a higher profile player to replace him in the starting 11 or a youngster for the squad. Kante was neither.

We all know what he has done since but hindsight is great thing.

Conversely, isn't our improved financial position a reason why he can take more risks on young players as well as buying the finished articles?. He doesn't even have to bring them to the club right away, he can loan them back.

Hi Dec,

£12.6m for both Kante and Lemar was hardly going to break the bank and, in Kante's case, it was not as if we were overloaded with defensive midfielders.

Hi Soc,

It's not the price, it's the squad building. Kante didn't have much going for him then. Fine if he was 20/21 but he wasn't. It's very easy to look at successful players and say we should have signed them before they made the breakthrough.

I would say our squad building has not been great in recent years, too many of the same type of players, not enough physicality, power or pace.

Who is the last french player we've got at a young age and they've turned out to be a top player?. I guess Kos is the closest but he wasn't a kid. Our mastery of the french market seems to have been lost somewhere along the way as other teams have evolved their scouting networks and overtaken us.

Is Gilles Grimandi actually identifying these great young french kids and Wenger is simply ignoring his advice or is our scouting system as chaotic as the team's organisation and tactics?.

The stick wenger got/gets for signing young players is because he signs them instead of established players instead of as well as established players.

We need both. He's signed some established players recently but we always seem to be playing catch up with the squad, never strengthening from a position of strength and sometimes having disastrous transfer windows where it was deemed just Čech was enough to make us title winners.

When you can spend £100m in the window spending under £10m on a couple of promising youngsters is nothing.
Even if the young players we sign have a 25% success rate it is money well spent.
For me the issue is not talent spotting it is having the courage and conviction to get the deals over the line. We are the chief ditherers and weak negotiators - we don't seem to act like a powerful or big club in our transfer dealings whatsoever. It seems wenger has too much of a say in all aspects of the transfer whereas he should send his list of targets to a director of football and transfer negotiator and they can keep him briefed on how they get on securing his targets

You are right we need both. However, if I were to guess why fans may react about young players is not that we buy them, its that we buy them oftentimes and not get the requisite senior level players to fill holes in the squad. First priority is the senior team.

It's all well and good that we may unearth the next Fabregas or Anelka but for more than a decade we have not been filing the holes in the team.

So, given a choice of rolling the dice on 2 or 3 very promising and exciting teens, a first rate striker would appease the fans more.

Not true Gazidis. Professional sports ownership in America has been seen as a viable investment option along traditional asset investments.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/arsenal/story/3 ... an-gazidis

Kroenke has faced increasing criticism from Arsenal supporters in recent years, with some fans viewing him as an absentee owner who is more interested in profit than trophies.

"He hasn't put debt on the football club," Gazidis said. "He's been nothing but supportive. If you think it's all about money, there are far more easier ways than owning sports teams.

Sadly your comments mirror the way the club is run. In a couple of days, pre season training commences but we have no idea whether Gibbs, Alexis, the Ox, Özil, Wilshire will even be Arsenal players on the first day of the season. Then we go on tour and this is the time to start preparing for the season, look at some of the marginal players and get people into the right frame of mind. Combinations are formed and players should be sold the plan for the year. 'Our priorities are 1. EPL 2. UEFA cup' but Wenger doesn't like preseason tours so time is lost and it is ticking closer to the start of the season. Where is your corporate and strategic plan for 2017-2018.

Wenger appears to believe that the season starts on the day the transfer deadline closes. Last season the lack of proper preparation resulted in us losing to Liverpool and ultimately those 3 points cost the club millions in lost CL revenue. You may think it is funny but once they are back at the club next week start preparing on day one not on 1st September. You probably even laughed and said 'that is football'when we lost 8-2 to Man U. Perhaps you would like to identify the way the club has changed since last season as promised by Gazidis and thereby Wenger.

It is a ridiculously simplistic analysis to say the whole outcome of last season hinged on the result of the opening loss to Liverpool, as it is equally inaccurate to say we were not ready for the season. After that loss,and any team can lose to Liverpool, we went fourteen league games unbeaten, including matches against holders Leicester, eventual champions Chelsea and also United and Tottenham. During that run we were also unbeaten in six ECL and League Cup ties. To say we were underprepared for the start of the season is just not supported by the facts. Our problems came later in the campaign.

On the transfer ins and outs, didn't the manager say after our FA Cup victory that he wanted to keep the squad together and strengthen it in a couple of positions. Rather than lots of changes, as fuelled by the media and agents, isn't that the most likely outcome? One new man is already on board and it looks like one or two others are being sought. We are not privy to the discussions between clubs, but again to suggest we are not active in the transfer market seems wide of the mark. Although we may not know what is going to happen with certain players that doesn't mean the club isn't clear about it. However we should never forget it takes three to make any transfer deal. Look around, not a lot has happened anywhere yet.

Actually we dropped points to Leicester as well at the start of last season and I am adamant we were not prepared for the season. Obviously you think I am incorrect in this assertion however this was also the view of this bloke who is supposed to run the club:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/0/a ... ue---live/

“We are not ready physically,” said Wenger. “You are in a catch-22 situation with the Euros. The players are not ready and they play this kind of game, and they get injured like Ramsey today. Or you give them the needed rest and you start the season without many of your players.

“We will try to get players back for Leicester, but when they have not the volume of preparation they get injured and you could see we dropped physically today.

“I don’t know (when we will be ready), but we have to be ready next week because we go to Leicester. We will see first what we can do with the players who are preparing and how many players are injured today. Can they recover for next week? I don’t know.

So your view is obviously that we are keeping all the above players even if they don't sign contract extensions. Mind you apparently you are probably correct about Alexis staying because even Wenger has said that is the case.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 70666.html

So there can be no doubt, Wenger is guaranteeing Alexis us will be with us next season. Of course if he is not I would expect that Wenger would do the honourable thing and resign immediately.

To be fair to Gazidis, he is in a very delicate position. He can't very well say bad things about his own boss (Stan) and he can't alienate Wenger who will presumably be with us for the next 2 years. He can't be supportive of Usmanov publicly. His boss and Usmanov are rivals for ownership of the club. He's in a damned if I do, damned if I don't position really.

http://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/n ... s-13260835

As I said crackers to draw a causal link between the result of the first game of the season to our finishing position 37 games later! And in my view more than a tad harsh to see a draw away to the champions Leicester as dropped points.

As to what Arsene Wenger says to the media, you should really know by now he can be elusive. They ask the questions and he gives answers - that's the name of the game. I don't think he takes it as seriously as you clearly do. Sometimes there is more truth or sense in his replies than others. We are not talking the Gettysburg address here, are we?

On transfers you lack realism. Should Sanchez want to leave then that is what will happen. Of course the manager is going to say he will be staying, but we all (except your good self it seems) understand where the power lies in football. The top players rule. There is little upside in retaining somebody who prefers to be elsewhere. Having said that if both Sanchez and Özil stay, presumably you'll give the club and manager a day off stick beating?

Just starting to read up on transfer news, etc. So, it seems we are supposedly bidding for Dalbert Henrique of Nice. So, what about Sead Kolasinac?

http://www.offthepost.info/blog/2017/06 ... he+Post%29

the youtube highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_NR7OhBJpM

To summarise your views basically Wenger is full of BS and you can trust nothing that he says. You will be happy to know I agree with your summary.

Its a summary, but about as accurate as Mitchell Johnson on a bad day.

He's worth something like $7BN so he's not doing too badly out of sports investments.

Ivan is right though there are far easier ways to make money - like being a puppet CEO who is basically a mouthpiece for our absantee 'owner'.

Can't wait for the Kroenke out planes next season, far more interesting than anything that happens on the field.

Dunno about you but I still quite enjoy going, watching the team and having a laugh with those around me. Always a good day out and the day it stops being that is when I'll stop going.

Do I still enjoy going. Well the answer to that is yes. Why? Reasons. I've supported the club for decades so I suppose on that score it's just habitual. I enjoy going with Luke, Neill and his Son Jamie, both home and away. I enjoy some of the games. I go in the hope that the team will perform, even if they lose to a better team on the day. The issue for me is how it's all become so boring and stale. Same old tired football, that was changed when it become necessary. You get the odd good game that you come away taking about with pleasure. Even many of the games we won, we really poor. Ramsey ( a player I like) says they (the players) were all behind Arsene and his new contract. Well they did not play like they were behind him last season until the last 10 games. Two games v City and Chelsea the team played well, you felt they could win. Away games v Stoke and Saints they were on holiday.

Maybe we were fed on some of the best football you and I have ever seen under Wenger that the drop in play, players has made us greedy for more. yet I enjoyed the seasons from 92-95 better than the tosh served up last season and the season before if I honest. Football goes in cycles so our turn will come again, that I'm sure, but I think that would come quicker under new management.

If the club are serious about wanting to reach 85+ points and challenge in Europe then they have to show it. It's no good spinning it every summer, coming out with sound bites to appease the fans, because the fans have heard it all before. The fans want action now. They are not being led up the path anymore. Gazidis thinks we are right mugs, that most apart from the deluded Graham Perry who talks for longer than Katie Perry sings will suck it up. Well the fans won't. If club want harmony on the terraces, put into practice what you preach. Then the fans will show you harmony.

This is harmony!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXnfS5z ... zelhc#t=27