Jesse Lingard is on 100k per week. Theo must feel undervalued.

Red Alert Bernard ...... I'd be thinking long and hard before engaging in another interminable debate with this guy .

Watching the next home match with a broken nose doesn't have much appeal .

Stevie Wonder did the negotiating on behalf of the club

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year................... and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

Hi Kiwi

Have you watched any of the Lions tourl? Sky are hyping it to death but your club sides have already burst a few bubbles. I reckon the All Blacks will murder them.

As Rich said, sprinklers are required in new buildings over 30m high but they do not have to be retro-fitted in existing high buildings.

Moving on, it’s quite common for gas to be available in high rise blocks both for heating and for cooking. Gas heating is far more sustainable than electric and some ethnic minorities will only cook over an open flame.

The route by which the individual gas pipes get up to the flats differs and there are a number of options, though the common feature is ventilation so as to avoid a potentially dangerous build-up of gas. The simplest method is to run the supply pipes up the side of the building where any leak vents to the open air. Alternatively, they can be run within a pipe or a duct that is ventilated top and bottom. A more contentious method, though legal and often deemed acceptable, is to run the gas pipes in the stairwell; the theory here is that gas is heavier than air so in the event of a leak, the gas will sink to the lowest level and as soon as the escape door is opened, the stairwell is effectively vented. There are variants on this routing method and I have no idea of the precise strategy employed at Grenfell.

From my understanding of the tragedy, gas pipes or gas leaks were not a contributing factor. There does seem to be some suggestion that gas pipes were located in the stairwell but though this strategy is occasionally rejected, it is still routinely accepted. In this instance, the ‘gas pipes in stairwell’ issue is being used to suggest poor management; I’m not sure that’s fair. I may be wrong of course.

The tragedy here is that no fire strategy has ever anticipated such a cataclysmic fire risk from outside the building. There have been plenty of fires in high rise blocks and by and large, the compartmentalisation of the building has always contained the fire, usually in the room it started but almost always within the flat where it started. This is and always has been basic idea that has advised the design process since we started building upwards. On this occasion though, the fire seems to have ripped up the void behind the external cladding panels fed by a ferocious and ever accelerating stack effect. Regular cavity barriers are designed to stop such a spread and much attention will focus on this aspect of the recent installation. The flames seem to have entered the flats, bow-torch hot through windows that immediately cracked and disintegrated under the heat. Since the flats had ribbon windows, every room - on every floor almost - seemed to catch fire simultaneously. Those who stayed in their compartmentalised flats - as we've all been taught to - didn't stand a chance, poor bastards.

My heart goes out to them.

The first bit sounds reasonable to the man in the street but I'd imagine the duck shoving that going to take place over the gas lines , building materials , cause of the fire will take much longer ....... police investigation , fire experts , lawyers , courts involved .
Speed isn't the keynote for any of those doodles .

as for the "Any accused's assets frozen immediately " how off the wall is that ..?

So someone points the finger at the gas fitters , the builders , ceiling contractors , flooring specialists and they all have their assets frozen ...how do their families live for however long the enquiry takes ...?

Fire retardant coated columns , sprinkler systems seems the logical answer but even so filling them with cheap furniture , curtains , clothing plenty of man made fibre , plastic toys then run gas lines throughout the building seems a recipe for disaster .

At least with electric something shorts out it can blow a fuse .... whereas an unchecked chip pan fire , the problem is exacerbated .

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in.

Them not being boxed in was one of the (many) complaints the residents had raised previously.

It came out last night that the cladding used was 5k less for the whole block could have been fireproof. Five thousand pounds in a multi-million refit. Also the cladding wasn't intended to improve the lives of the residents, it was done to improve the view from local private blocks.

There has also been talk about where the death toll is going to end with people seeming to suggest it could easily reach three figures when the building is cleared.

DHD - I wonder if you could tell me how sound these thoughts are.

There was a fire regs expert on R4 yesterday talking about why there wouldn't have been a central alarm system fo the whole block. He said something to the effect of this would have led to more false alarms and that would end up with people disabling the alarms but that there should have been a floor by floor system instead. Does that seem right to you?

Thanks for taking the trouble to answer that in detail DHD. Much appreciated.

On the cladding point I guess it comes down to whether choices were made because of appearance or because of effect. The quotes in this would suggest appearance was the main driving factor in the choices made. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 89951.html

The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

Thinking about it, some might say bubbling, May's call for a Public Inquiry needs to be given a big boot. She should be reminded how long The Hillsboro Inquiry took and how the result of it proved nothing.

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

On this point I hope TG agrees with me for a change

He only owes 14 mil - hardly worth bothering about. Hope they seize his house for starters.

I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.

Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

I'll join the fishing expedition!

Anyone who thinks Kroenke is more odious than Usmanov because they don't like the formers involvement in Arsenal are either ignorant or completely without a functioning moral compass.

With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

The Fake Ron's buy-out clause is said to be about £850m. If Usmnov really loves Arsenal he could sort that out surely?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

Pete the assets that are frozen are their savings, expensive jewellery, houses, second houses, country homes etc not their day to say living income.

These are professionals we are talking about they should be cable to show immediately what tests were carried out and what tyey were told by experts. You don't just give them 12 million and tell them what to do, they have to earn their money. Experts are employed by the prosecution and a case made out.

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in. All easily proven or disproved. Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves, that's what they deserve.

Wrote a porno? I'm still starring in them when the hip allows.

Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n***** you come across " .

What an odious bitch theresa may is.
Where is her compassion, she rightly met the emergency services at the site of the tragedy who all deserve our enormous credit but what about meeting some of the people who have been affected by this horrific terrible tragedy. Didnt they also deserve some of her time. No she scuttled away like the bitch she is.
Fair play to Corbyn and Khan who knew the hostile atmosphere they would be entering but they did it anyway.
Corbyn is growing in stature.

You are correct Kiwi. Most disasters/WHS incidents are a combination of a number of failures or failure to understand how different parts interact together. Your experience on mining sites would have made you aware of that and I have seen it from another angle. Therefore one persons failure is only a contributing factor and not the final factor that caused the incident. Very difficult to sheet home blame to one individual.

That is unlike Arsenal FC where Wenger wants to be the 'supreme being' and therefore is fully responsible for failures.

The tories are suppressing the way the media is reporting this. Everyone in the local area believes the death toll could reach between 100-150 large. Apparently many in the top 3 floors had no chance. Surely at this stage there is a strong indication of the size of the tragedy.

Lily Allen made the point the way the media are reporting this incident is being micro managed. She might not be wrong

.... and this geezer is spot on.

https://twitter.com/jamzldn/status/875345120941551616