How old are you? This had nothing to do with cuts. Two years ago 12million was spent on upgrading the property. It's possible the plastic cladding wasn't fireproof it's possible the contractors removed some protection. The investigation will find what the problem was and hopefully someone will be charged then with Corporate manslaughter. Whoever was at fault they will pay and pay heavily.

As exiled pointed out earlier the tories filibustered the new fire and safety bill. Seriously, if you're life is this empty that you have to protect the wrong doers and evil within our world then please do society a favour and kill yourself.

I hope those responsible for this tragic loss of life get wiped out and removed from planet earth because their existence is pointless.

Dumb and dumber. The response to the Bridge incidents and the response to this fire were all excellent. Blame the Tories for a lot of things but in these incidences you're just spitting in the wind.

Thanks for sharing your ridiculous feelings. The Internet cares what you think...

Indeed .... you can't blame the player , they just let their agent haggle with the powers that be to feather both their nests but in terms of what Theo puts out and gets ; compared to your Joe Average worker it's sickening .
Walcott seems to happily chirp on social media about wake up calls etc
...to my way of thinking he'd earn more respect by saying "this week because I was a complete passenger in the game I'm going to donate 20,000 of my wages to the blind foundation " or similar .

Not putting myself up for canonization here but about twenty years ago I was making some large farm gates and making a complete ****&^%$ of the job . Out of square , hinges on the wrong side if it could be cocked up I did it .

Took four days to finally get the suckers right .

Such was my embarrassment at my output I said to the bloke concerned pay me for two days

No .... but I wish I had

You should get out more Rich , go to night classes make yourself a bookcase .

Jesse Lingard is on 100k per week. Theo must feel undervalued.

But if people don't protest then Wenger runs the line that everyone is happy. Hence his talking about a few unhappy supporters when that was clearly not true.

Speak up or you allow the situation to get worse.

By all means speak up Gaz, but how about a bit of variety in the message? There's not much on TV these days, and the old people's day centre is closed, and my hip is playing me up so I can't get down to bingo. I come on here for a bit of entertainment and the best you can do is whinge on and on and on and and on and on and on about the same subject. Fair play though, you haven't told anybody to kill themselves.

Yes, that sounds much more fun than wine, women or song.

While we can't pretend to have any certainty about this tragedy and its causes (apart from the thought that tower blocks of that size as appropriate living conditions in the 21st century in a nation as rich as the UK is insane, given the thousands that die every year in similar properties globaly purely as a result of the nature of those properties), even taking into the prior concerns into consideration, the fillibustering of the fire and safety bill by a group of private landlords on the blue side of the house was one of a number of truly disgusting similar acts by the current conservative administration. They really do make you pine for the days for John Major and his cabinet, when there was still a conscience within the party and fillibustering for private gain wasn't a seasonal event.

If the majority of the population of this country were furnished with the facts about this particular conservative administration and its record on a whole range of things over the last few years, a significant number of the MPs in question would be dragged from their offices by the multitude.

I find it astonishing. Given the slog it takes to get there, one can only assume that most politicians enter politics with the desire to improve things from whatever standpoint they come from, but the utter moral bankruptcy of a large number of current Tory mp's sometimes makes me want to vomit. There are some good ones on the blue side of the house, but of late they have been shouted down by the really nasty bastards that seem to be breeding over there. Its amazing how many of them are also awful orators, terrible improvisers and in a few cases, are thick as the proverbial short planks.

The responses from the emergency services were truly excellent. But in each case they were having to do so against a back drop of massively reduced resources.

I know everything costs money, but I reckon most people were told for an extra penny in the pound tax they could have fully resourced police, fire and ambulance services, they'd be prepared to pay it.

Its like the way we are told we need to keep updating a nuclear deterrent that is irrelevant (because the only people who would ever push us to the point where a nuclear deterrent is an option either are semi-apocalyptic death cultists for whom it is no deterrent or people like Russia, China or the USA who could wipe us off the planet with fairly little effort - everyone else is either too close to want to use them or too poor to be a threat), but can't give our ground troops adequate kit.

Might I suggest listening to podcasts - start with my Dad wrote a Porno. Absolutely brilliant.

Also would you like to give us an update on the cricket.

So true Lom, look at Phillip Davies as an example and his voting record

Granit <3 Alexis = Broken Dreams

I find it extraordinary in this day and age that sprinkler systems in tower blocks, schools etc are not mandatory.

Make excuses for *%^@ like this and you are a wanker who betrayed your mother, sister and daughters.

Cheers


https://youtu.be/sjqro8jFRms

Wrote a porno? I'm still starring in them when the hip allows.

Cricket - well done Pakistan, but hope Bangla win it. England had a good run, but I blame Wenger for not getting the title. Why not?

If your cowardly attack is made at me then you are even more stupid than I thought. My initial comment was not in support of the Tories but support for Jeremy Corbyn who realised this was the time to support the bereaved and not attack anyone or everyone that could have been responsible. They are still looking for tens of victims who deserve some respect. When that has been done then is the time to start throwing blame around not now.

Thin end of the wedge, Soc. You start with things like fire regulations and bans on assault rifles and paedophilia, and the next thing you know you have a full blown Nanny State.

What a cockroach.

Whilst there are 10s of 1000s of people living in similar accomodation it is always the time to look at where the blame lies, if for no other reason than to try to prevent others dying in such a hideous way. The trouble with waiting for 'the right time' then frankly there is never a right time, nothing gets done, and more people die.

Unfortunately they are but only in new buildings of over 30m in height.

I work in the industry and visit plenty of buildings/estates built in the 60's/70's where the fire safety and means of escape for residents of the building is at best unclear and at worst life-threatening.

Similar fires can happen in new buildings, as one did in Dubai a few years back, but the occupants in new buildings are rarely put at risk when the envelope of the building, or a single unit catches fire as there are simple methods to contain the fire and very strict legislation on escaping from a fire. Unfortunately this doesn't extend to existing buildings that pre-date recent legislation.

The enquiry will be interesting because there is a lot of possibly inaccurate speculation about what contributed to the fire spreading so quickly. The one thing I'm pretty certain of is that there would have been zero loss of life if the same fire happened in a new building.

Bubblechris you are fully entitled to make your very reasonable contribution on this terrible fire without having to accept the abusive comments being directed at you on this forum. I am quite sure Steve Gleiber would have been very quick to jump on it.

Yes, you are right, the investigation must get underway as soon as it can. Experience of other disastrous incidents suggests it always takes far too long to reach conclusions that help for the future and also give bereaved families and communities the justice they deserve.

Exactly !

One of the things that is very strange is that they connected the building to the gas main and ran pipes all the way up the side of the building. I can't think of any block of flats I've lived in that were connected to gas in fact I recall wanting gas but realised later that this could be a problem.

A fire brigade spokesman said that there was a fractured main in the building and it slowed down there getting the fire under control.

The Prime Minister has promised an immediate enquiry. Let's hope it will be thorough.

Oh the sweet irony. A republican congressman says he wants answers about how the gunman got a weapon and his background to see if it could have been prevented and he was a signature to legislation that weakened background checks on gun purchases.

Oh do give over ! Also he started it by telling me to "stfu you *%^@" if I recall

I'm sure if Steve was around today he'd be disappointed at the apologists for murderers on ere.

Yes you are right about the original post, but you have ramped it up inordinately since then, including your shameful conclusion above. We all share this forum, and disagreements and sometimes heavy duty ones are part and parcel of it, but I won't give over complaining about the content and tone of the sort of posts you have recently made. Who on earth wants to hear it?

If diddums doesn't like it he shouldn't give it out. End of

Oh and btw can I save the time of waiting for an investigation on this one, it will blame the contractor and won't say the truth which is those people were not listened to, were abandoned by their government and died because they were poor.

Won't be commenting anymore on the bubble who is having a bubble.

As Rich said, sprinklers are required in new buildings over 30m high but they do not have to be retro-fitted in existing high buildings.

Moving on, it’s quite common for gas to be available in high rise blocks both for heating and for cooking. Gas heating is far more sustainable than electric and some ethnic minorities will only cook over an open flame.

The route by which the individual gas pipes get up to the flats differs and there are a number of options, though the common feature is ventilation so as to avoid a potentially dangerous build-up of gas. The simplest method is to run the supply pipes up the side of the building where any leak vents to the open air. Alternatively, they can be run within a pipe or a duct that is ventilated top and bottom. A more contentious method, though legal and often deemed acceptable, is to run the gas pipes in the stairwell; the theory here is that gas is heavier than air so in the event of a leak, the gas will sink to the lowest level and as soon as the escape door is opened, the stairwell is effectively vented. There are variants on this routing method and I have no idea of the precise strategy employed at Grenfell.

From my understanding of the tragedy, gas pipes or gas leaks were not a contributing factor. There does seem to be some suggestion that gas pipes were located in the stairwell but though this strategy is occasionally rejected, it is still routinely accepted. In this instance, the ‘gas pipes in stairwell’ issue is being used to suggest poor management; I’m not sure that’s fair. I may be wrong of course.

The tragedy here is that no fire strategy has ever anticipated such a cataclysmic fire risk from outside the building. There have been plenty of fires in high rise blocks and by and large, the compartmentalisation of the building has always contained the fire, usually in the room it started but almost always within the flat where it started. This is and always has been basic idea that has advised the design process since we started building upwards. On this occasion though, the fire seems to have ripped up the void behind the external cladding panels fed by a ferocious and ever accelerating stack effect. Regular cavity barriers are designed to stop such a spread and much attention will focus on this aspect of the recent installation. The flames seem to have entered the flats, bow-torch hot through windows that immediately cracked and disintegrated under the heat. Since the flats had ribbon windows, every room - on every floor almost - seemed to catch fire simultaneously. Those who stayed in their compartmentalised flats - as we've all been taught to - didn't stand a chance, poor bastards.

My heart goes out to them.

Yeah, he's a right nasty scumbag. The kind of man that one would like to punch if you saw him in the street. And they always give these types the safe seats..

Maybe this will finally get the replacing of tower block stock on the agenda once the rather more urgent conversations about how to make the existing ones safe have taken place and been actioned.

The arguments for mass high rise social housing really aren't very strong in a country with our resources.

On a general point, I'd be wary of invoking the presumed will of the departed and missed unless you had a close relationship with that person. That said, TG, I basically agree with you politically, but still think you went a bit OTT with a couple of your posts last night. Lets remember that its the internet, and most of us know very little about each other beyond our posting habits.

Thinking about it, some might say bubbling, May's call for a Public Inquiry needs to be given a big boot. She should be reminded how long The Hillsboro Inquiry took and how the result of it proved nothing.

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

On this point I hope TG agrees with me for a change

Red Alert Bernard ...... I'd be thinking long and hard before engaging in another interminable debate with this guy .

Watching the next home match with a broken nose doesn't have much appeal .

That will surely depend on whether any existing laws were broken. I'm not a lawyer and haven't been able to follow the story too much today, but has that been established yet?

Stevie Wonder did the negotiating on behalf of the club