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Post #479721  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:20 am 
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Decaf wrote:
Crickey. Where are those last four seats? Presumably in the deep hick country somewhere?


Recounts I suspect. In one seat the tellers have been sent home 'cos so knackered. In one Scottish consitutency the Tories clung on with a majority of 2.

They are just utterly mental results all round. The Scots didn't save anybody except Theresa May.

I was certainly wrong that Corbyn's dodgy national security record would undo him - it seems that austerity a much bigger issue especially for young whose turnout obviously pivotal long may it last. Direction of travel all important but we won't see any of the manifesto in a action because...sorry to be a buzz breaker here...Labour still lost by quite some margin.


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Post #479722  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:22 am 
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dec wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Morning all

Hahahahahahahahahahaba hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha

Strong and stable indeed.

Brexit just got even more complicated. There might be a more realistic debate on it now though.


The debate might be realistic but it's pretty worrying that DUP have so much power now...


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Post #479723  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:22 am 
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The effect of Sinn Fein?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/ju ... parliament

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Post #479724  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:21 am 
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Decaf wrote:


SF have won 7 seats. Importantly for the W'Minster dynamic, the other nationalist party, the SDLP, who are supporters of Labour of most issues have been wiped out and lost all of their 3 seats - including John Hume's seat of Foyle - surely the death knell for them as they are irrelevant now in the North of Ireland.

DUP power is worrying and frankly the Conservative Party should be condemned for getting into bed with a party that is based on religious fundamentalism and whose worldview is out of step with the rest of the UK and the Republic of Ireland. The only benefits I can see from this arrangement are - softer border than May's hard brexit; more dinero for the North possible only for it to be squandered by the DUPPERS who have their hand in the till as evidenced by a number of recent scandals relating to them that largely caused power sharing here to be suspended, possibly permanently.

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Post #479725  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:23 am 
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Daz wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Crickey. Where are those last four seats? Presumably in the deep hick country somewhere?


Recounts I suspect. In one seat the tellers have been sent home 'cos so knackered. In one Scottish consitutency the Tories clung on with a majority of 2.

They are just utterly mental results all round. The Scots didn't save anybody except Theresa May.

I was certainly wrong that Corbyn's dodgy national security record would undo him - it seems that austerity a much bigger issue especially for young whose turnout obviously pivotal long may it last. Direction of travel all important but we won't see any of the manifesto in a action because...sorry to be a buzz breaker here...Labour still lost by quite some margin.

I don't think anyone was expecting Labour to actually win, that that isn't much of a wet blanket. The Tories will self-destruct now, I feel.

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Post #479726  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:04 am 
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Niall wrote:
DUP power is worrying and frankly the Conservative Party should be condemned for getting into bed with a party that is based on religious fundamentalism and whose worldview is out of step with the rest of the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

Agreed Niall but I reckon there will be more than just a few quid. Plenty of money heading your way I reckon, the DUP will milk this for every penny. This is very dangerous for the North, how arsed will the DUP be to get the power sharing executive up and running when they can play Billy Big Bollix in London?


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Post #479727  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:07 am 
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May has some neck hanging around after that result.


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Post #479728  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:09 am 
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Decaf wrote:
Daz wrote:

Recounts I suspect. In one seat the tellers have been sent home 'cos so knackered. In one Scottish consitutency the Tories clung on with a majority of 2.

They are just utterly mental results all round. The Scots didn't save anybody except Theresa May.

I was certainly wrong that Corbyn's dodgy national security record would undo him - it seems that austerity a much bigger issue especially for young whose turnout obviously pivotal long may it last. Direction of travel all important but we won't see any of the manifesto in a action because...sorry to be a buzz breaker here...Labour still lost by quite some margin.

I don't think anyone was expecting Labour to actually win, that that isn't much of a wet blanket. The Tories will self-destruct now, I feel.

You would hope. But I think Corbyn would be similar to Kinnock in that the closer he actually got to being elected the more voters would actually be scared of voting for him in case he won!

Who's next up for the Tories? Any ideas anyone?


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Post #479729  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:18 am 
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John wrote:
Niall wrote:
DUP power is worrying and frankly the Conservative Party should be condemned for getting into bed with a party that is based on religious fundamentalism and whose worldview is out of step with the rest of the UK and the Republic of Ireland.

Agreed Niall but I reckon there will be more than just a few quid. Plenty of money heading your way I reckon, the DUP will milk this for every penny. This is very dangerous for the North, how arsed will the DUP be to get the power sharing executive up and running when they can play Billy Big Bollix in London?


To be honest John, I'm not convinced SF are keen on restoring Stormont and certainly not w/o agreements on the Irish Language Act. And what chance now on the marriage equality being introduced in the north? Irish nationalist anger at the way the DUP behaved in Stormont is real and you can see that by the figures now voting SF and with the eclipse of the SDLP. There can be no return to Stormont for the DUP to run amok with financial scandals and blocking every issue that they don't agree with. May as well have had majority rule in that case.

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Post #479730  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:23 am 
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Yesterday was the 11th GE since I could vote. The worse in my memory.

We used to have politicians canvass for our votes, like them or loath them they did represent us. They came around letting us know what they will be doing for you. You either looked at how it would benefit you or the bigger picture (maybe both) and vote. Now it's all about Don't vote for thema s they will do this or that. Wish they would stick to their own policies and stop debunking other parties.

OK! A few comedy programmes would take the rise out of them as they would most famous people, but today they are all ridiculed all the time. You cannot go on Facebook or Twitter without someone having the piss ripped out of them.

They mostly have no respect for voters and in turn voters lack respect for them. Labour has a vote for a leader and many of their party did not want him. Yet though he did not win, he did make a go of it. May was voted to replace Cameron, now might be a target for the Tory party to be replaced. These people as supposed to represent us but have trouble picking a leader.

What actually good did last nights result do for the country, on what some call an extraordinary night? What was extraordinary about a hung parliament.

There is no debate on social media just a load of anger, hate, outrage. Someone makes a comment, some reply, then the outrage on what they have said, the hate, the abuse follows. It's not for me actually doing anyone any good. TV debates, again just a load of shouting.

Where are we actually going. Social networking could be good, but No! let's just try to shut down and shout down those that disagree with us.

Would have rather had either party win with a majority than all this poxy politics hanging around like a bad smell.


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Post #479731  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:27 am 
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Decaf wrote:
The Tories will self-destruct now, I feel.

Think you're letting hope rather than realism sway that view. The Tories didn't even self-destruct over Europe, so they won't over a poor election result. They will get rid of May before the next election (John's point about how her having some neck to hang around isn't that important as she won't be allowed to - see then end of my post), and modernise their policy towards social welfare. There were two main problems for them in this election. Their manifesto and a hopelessly uninspiring party leader. A softer approach to social care and May going will sort both out. The party won't self-destruct. It's a ruthless organisation geared to election success. I expect it to brush themselves off. May is a dead man walking (or woman to be pedantic). She'll hang around for a bit before the Conservative Central Office bigwigs open the trap door she's now standing on with a rope around her neck. Perhaps 'hang around for a bit' was the right term, considering the way I described her future political career being ended in the not too distant future.

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Post #479732  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:33 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
The Tories will self-destruct now, I feel.

modernise their policy towards social welfare. There were two main problems for them in this election. Their manifesto and a hopelessly uninspiring party leader. A softer approach to social care and May going will sort both out.

Agree, I think the Tories best hope of getting a majority again are to move to the left, end austerity, produce better offers on social issues. Can't really see them running again with May; the vultures will circle and she'll be gone.

I can only see this cobbling along for a short while and then another election - although early reports say no real appetite for it on the tory side. A new leader would change that.

Don't see anyone out there though who is remotely capable of that. Yet

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Post #479733  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:11 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
The Tories will self-destruct now, I feel.

Think you're letting hope rather than realism sway that view. The Tories didn't even self-destruct over Europe, so they won't over a poor election result. They will get rid of May before the next election (John's point about how her having some neck to hang around isn't that important as she won't be allowed to - see then end of my post), and modernise their policy towards social welfare. There were two main problems for them in this election. Their manifesto and a hopelessly uninspiring party leader. A softer approach to social care and May going will sort both out. The party won't self-destruct. It's a ruthless organisation geared to election success. I expect it to brush themselves off. May is a dead man walking (or woman to be pedantic). She'll hang around for a bit before the Conservative Central Office bigwigs open the trap door she's now standing on with a rope around her neck. Perhaps 'hang around for a bit' was the right term, considering the way I described her future political career being ended in the not too distant future.

Sure, the Tories would cement their position if they moved to the centre. But is there someone in the wings who is going to provide inspiring and unifying leadership and reconnect with the base?

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Post #479734  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:20 am 
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Niall wrote:
Bernard wrote:
modernise their policy towards social welfare. There were two main problems for them in this election. Their manifesto and a hopelessly uninspiring party leader. A softer approach to social care and May going will sort both out.

Agree, I think the Tories best hope of getting a majority again are to move to the left, end austerity, produce better offers on social issues. Can't really see them running again with May; the vultures will circle and she'll be gone.

I can only see this cobbling along for a short while and then another election - although early reports say no real appetite for it on the tory side. A new leader would change that.

Don't see anyone out there though who is remotely capable of that. Yet

For labour this is a bit like going down 5-4 away at Barca or Bayern in the first leg of a ECL knockout tie. Hard to imagine for a Arsenal supporter, granted.

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Post #479735  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:20 am 
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Daz wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Crickey. Where are those last four seats? Presumably in the deep hick country somewhere?


Recounts I suspect. In one seat the tellers have been sent home 'cos so knackered. In one Scottish consitutency the Tories clung on with a majority of 2.

They are just utterly mental results all round. The Scots didn't save anybody except Theresa May.

I was certainly wrong that Corbyn's dodgy national security record would undo him - it seems that austerity a much bigger issue especially for young whose turnout obviously pivotal long may it last. Direction of travel all important but we won't see any of the manifesto in a action because...sorry to be a buzz breaker here...Labour still lost by quite some margin.


I hope you're wrong. She has to listen to the people and investigate why they voted as they did. She must look at Uni fees again, social and especially dementia care, the Health Service, Taxation etc all things the Tories have generally ignored. If she does she will become a great PM. If she doesn't then the Tories could lose a lot of seats at the next election.


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Post #479736  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:32 am 
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*%^@*** partition. The truly *%^@ gift that won't stop giving.


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Post #479737  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:42 am 
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Northbank Memories wrote:

They mostly have no respect for voters and in turn voters lack respect for them.


You're witnessing the demise of the existing political systems. Politicians are *%^@ and everyone knows it. They're not smarter or better, nor can they make better decisions. People have access to far information than they did previously and whether it's factual or fiction will make judgement based on what they think (or are led to think). He who controls the information controls the people and In an increasingly fragmented information domain, politicians become almost irrelevant.


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Post #479738  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:57 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
Politicians are *%^@ and everyone knows it.


Totally disagree. We have some really good politicians, many of whom I am delighted to see back in parliament from both sides who do excellent work on behalf of their constituents sometimes in really difficult circumstances and for comparatively little financial reward.


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Post #479739  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Think you're letting hope rather than realism sway that view. The Tories didn't even self-destruct over Europe, so they won't over a poor election result. They will get rid of May before the next election (John's point about how her having some neck to hang around isn't that important as she won't be allowed to - see then end of my post), and modernise their policy towards social welfare. There were two main problems for them in this election. Their manifesto and a hopelessly uninspiring party leader. A softer approach to social care and May going will sort both out. The party won't self-destruct. It's a ruthless organisation geared to election success. I expect it to brush themselves off. May is a dead man walking (or woman to be pedantic). She'll hang around for a bit before the Conservative Central Office bigwigs open the trap door she's now standing on with a rope around her neck. Perhaps 'hang around for a bit' was the right term, considering the way I described her future political career being ended in the not too distant future.

Sure, the Tories would cement their position if they moved to the centre. But is there someone in the wings who is going to provide inspiring and unifying leadership and reconnect with the base?



They need to get Ruth Davidson into parliament - she would be a very good leader for them albeit the DUP would have no truck with her for obvious reasons (and she with them probably)!!!


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Post #479740  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Daz wrote:
*%^@*** partition. The truly *%^@ gift that won't stop giving.

Time for London to experience a bit of DUP. Enjoy!

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Post #479741  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Niall wrote:
Agree, I think the Tories best hope of getting a majority again are to move to the left, end austerity, produce better offers on social issues. Can't really see them running again with May; the vultures will circle and she'll be gone.

I can only see this cobbling along for a short while and then another election - although early reports say no real appetite for it on the tory side. A new leader would change that.

Don't see anyone out there though who is remotely capable of that. Yet

For labour this is a bit like going down 5-4 away at Barca or Bayern in the first leg of a ECL knockout tie. Hard to imagine for a Arsenal supporter, granted.

yeah, it has dawned on me that this is the worst outcome for me despite early joy at Labour's progress. Unfortunately, not far enough and I wonder how they are going to win these extra seats now. I worry that the young, having made their way to the polling booths will now feel let down again. That will either motivate them further or see them drift away. At Labour's expense.

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Post #479742  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Daz wrote:
grantyboy wrote:
Politicians are *%^@ and everyone knows it.


Totally disagree. We have some really good politicians, many of whom I am delighted to see back in parliament from both sides who do excellent work on behalf of their constituents sometimes in really difficult circumstances and for comparatively little financial reward.


Bollocks. They work for getting reelected and perpetuating their own view of the world. Evidenced by most opposition objecting merely because the other side thought of it rather than it being the good of the country.


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Post #479743  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:20 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Daz wrote:

Totally disagree. We have some really good politicians, many of whom I am delighted to see back in parliament from both sides who do excellent work on behalf of their constituents sometimes in really difficult circumstances and for comparatively little financial reward.


Bollocks. They work for getting reelected and perpetuating their own view of the world. Evidenced by most opposition objecting merely because the other side thought of it rather than it being the good of the country.


Oh well at least you can sit and turn your back when they appear on TV I guess.


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Post #479744  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Hearing interesting rumours there'll be an Orange Order march down the Pall Mall every 12th July going forward following the bonfire at Westminster Common. Don't forget to provide tyres and other toxic pollutants for the craic. Irish tricolour for on top with extra large pope effigy - will be supplied.

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Post #479745  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Daz wrote:
*%^@*** partition. The truly *%^@ gift that won't stop giving.

Time for London to experience a bit of DUP. Enjoy!


I blame those stupid bastards in Sinn Fein with their 1916 "principles". Surely it's payback time for Jezza?


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Post #479746  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Daz wrote:
grantyboy wrote:

Bollocks. They work for getting reelected and perpetuating their own view of the world. Evidenced by most opposition objecting merely because the other side thought of it rather than it being the good of the country.


Oh well at least you can sit and turn your back when they appear on TV I guess.


And you can wax lyrical at how awesome they are while wailing about how *%^@** it all is.


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Post #479747  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Niall wrote:
Time for London to experience a bit of DUP. Enjoy!


I blame those stupid bastards in Sinn Fein with their 1916 "principles". Surely it's payback time for Jezza?

Was talking about that with my sis this morning.

My view is, I would most certainly support SF entering Westminster to support Jeremy Corbyn's social program getting implemented. SF have abandoned almost all their other long held principles (Stormont etc) so why not this. What better way to improve relations with the British people than this? Can't think of any!

However, this time it won't happen. Firstly, Corbyn simply hasn't got enough seats. Secondly, I think the optics would be very bad for the Labour Party. That could damage Corbyn long term. Thirdly, hard line republicans would still be opposed I think and the one thing SF has been very careful to avoid is a split in the republican movement.

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Post #479748  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:43 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Daz wrote:

Oh well at least you can sit and turn your back when they appear on TV I guess.


And you can wax lyrical at how awesome they are while wailing about how *%^@** it all is.


Not really. I've visited a country living under a military dictatorship where people were burned alive for fighting for the vote and one ravaged by a civil war that saw hundreds of thousands die. So I am grateful to live in a democracy and think it is better not to take it for granted. I suspect your view of politicians in the UK at least is partly based on ignorance and partly on the facile knee-jerk populism of "they're all *%^@ with their own interests at heart" that sadly has a lot of currency but actually not much basis in reality. Many but not all work very hard for their constituents, part of their job is to object to governments - that's democratic scrutiny in action. Some of them of course get attacked with machetes or swung to the ground by the hair and shot and hacked to death by nutters. They're not all perfect by any means, there are a few really rotten apples, but many are hard-working dedicated and principled.


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Post #479749  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Daz wrote:
*%^@*** partition. The truly *%^@ gift that won't stop giving.

Time for London to experience a bit of DUP. Enjoy!

This makes interesting reading.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... -agreement

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Post #479750  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Firstly, Corbyn simply hasn't got enough seats. Secondly, I think the optics would be very bad for the Labour Party. That could damage Corbyn long term. Thirdly, hard line republicans would still be opposed I think and the one thing SF has been very careful to avoid is a split in the republican movement.


All valid reasons. Bloody annoying though 'cos it leaves us with those backward *%^@*** weirdos we should have *%^@** off for Dublin to deal with in 1921. Still, to be fair, they were propping May up before the election so it's not a massive change, but she's more dependent on them. Her speech was an absolute disgrace - anybody would think she'd just won a handsome victory.


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Post #479751  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Niall wrote:
Time for London to experience a bit of DUP. Enjoy!

This makes interesting reading.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... -agreement

Cheers Decaf, whenever I have a spare few hours.... :)

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Post #479752  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Niall wrote:
Firstly, Corbyn simply hasn't got enough seats. Secondly, I think the optics would be very bad for the Labour Party. That could damage Corbyn long term. Thirdly, hard line republicans would still be opposed I think and the one thing SF has been very careful to avoid is a split in the republican movement.


All valid reasons. Bloody annoying though 'cos it leaves us with those backward *%^@*** weirdos we should have *%^@** off for Dublin to deal with in 1921. Still, to be fair, they were propping May up before the election so it's not a massive change, but she's more dependent on them. Her speech was an absolute disgrace - anybody would think she'd just won a handsome victory.

Preaching to the converted there, horse.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/0 ... pulls-out/

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Post #479753  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Arlene's on her way, Daz.

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Post #479754  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Niall wrote:
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Arlene's on her way, Daz.


Your mob are doing a press conference but can't find a link to it. Would be bloody funny if they said they'd changed their minds "cos it's Jeremy".


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Post #479755  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Daz wrote:
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Arlene's on her way, Daz.


Your mob are doing a press conference but can't find a link to it. Would be bloody funny if they said they'd changed their minds "cos it's Jeremy".

Ha ha, a link? This is Norn Iron, still a bit backward!! As you'll soon find out. I am going to have some fun with this :P

It would be absolutely fecking hilarious.

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Post #479756  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Daz wrote:

Your mob are doing a press conference but can't find a link to it. Would be bloody funny if they said they'd changed their minds "cos it's Jeremy".

Ha ha, a link? This is Norn Iron, still a bit backward!! As you'll soon find out. I am going to have some fun with this :P

It would be absolutely fecking hilarious.

Marching season starts tomorrow. I'm sure they can find a route that took King Billy past Downing St.

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Post #479757  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:14 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
...She has to listen to the people and investigate why they voted as they did. She must look at Uni fees again, social and especially dementia care, the Health Service, Taxation etc all things the Tories have generally ignored. If she does she will become a great PM. If she doesn't then the Tories could lose a lot of seats at the next election.
Basically you are saying she should adopt Labour's policies that she doesn't believe in? The people might just smell a rat there!

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Post #479758  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:19 pm 
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"The union is our guiding star" - Arlene Foster this afternoon.

Surely, the Tories would be better off running a minority government on their own rather than involving those nut jobs.

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Post #479759  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:36 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Northbank Memories wrote:

They mostly have no respect for voters and in turn voters lack respect for them.


You're witnessing the demise of the existing political systems. Politicians are *%^@ and everyone knows it. They're not smarter or better, nor can they make better decisions. People have access to far information than they did previously and whether it's factual or fiction will make judgement based on what they think (or are led to think). He who controls the information controls the people and In an increasingly fragmented information domain, politicians become almost irrelevant.
I don't think so. We have just had the first election in years where it feels like politics matters. What seems to have happened in this UK election is that people have not found all the politicians irrelevant. Corbyn's relative success is based in part on people thinking he does believe in what he is saying. Which they find refreshing. That he is so clearly not a media creation, like say Blair, Cameron and Clegg, has won him support, especially amongst younger voters.

Your point about who controls the information controls people, has not played over here this time. The opinion polls widely touted May as a landslide leader who would smash the Labour heartlands. Corbyn was said to have no chance at all. For years he has continually been belittled by the press in particular, some broadcasters and his opponents, yet that has meant nothing in the social media world where much of his younger support lies. Rather than being negative about politics maybe we should applaud the fact that he has not been done by the power brokerss, like the hapless Miliband before him?

Like Harlow I'm also long in the tooth over General Elections, but I can't share his rather strange view that they should not be political!

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Post #479760  Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Sure, the Tories would cement their position if they moved to the centre. But is there someone in the wings who is going to provide inspiring and unifying leadership and reconnect with the base?



They need to get Ruth Davidson into parliament - she would be a very good leader for them albeit the DUP would have no truck with her for obvious reasons (and she with them probably)!!!
A Scottish leader of the Tories? Yes please. 'Mr. Corbyn, what colour carpet would you like for Number 10?'

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