Probably because they are two world class teams. Seriously tough opposition.

I think Martinelli is done. Time to bring Pépé

They have never forgotten the 1989 final game

Yup

Yes, as Rich points out, that's what the best teams do. Age is also a factor - both the attacking and defending players of Man City and Liverpool are at their absolute peak, while most of ours are just starting out their careers at the top level.

What? You really believe that some forumites are happy at mistakes?

Who?

Good to hear the loud support from the crowd. The team deserve that.

Shame. That would have been great for Martinelli with just a touch more curl.

Ooh! So close

Unlucky Martinelli. Good to see the team showing spirit.

The way we folded is a problem. It's like there isn't belief. Long looping passes are a sign of players trying to do something. Keep it on the deck and pass low.

Unai Emery’s team have done a job on Juventus tonight.

3-0 away, impressive

Strange. I’d just been reflecting that unlike recent years we didn’t fold in a big match. It didn’t run away from us. And the players still seemed to keep their shape and belief.

And no red card!

Hope the team doesn't feel too deflated by this. It was a very evenly contested match for the most part, decided by a couple of key moments where we weren't quite sharp enough, not at all like most of our recent defeats against them. If we play like this against Tottenham, Man Utd and even Chelsea, we have a very good chance of beating them.

Belief must be very hard to have. Did any Arsenal fan believe we were going to win or even draw the game once we went 2-0 down? I know the standard line of always maintaining belief but we’re a young team who hasn’t gone through enough to get to that kind of level of belief. That only really comes when you’ve won a lot

Just disappointed. As long as we rebound with a win at Villa, it will just be one of those games that got away.

Oh well. First half we were excellent and the team should take a lot of credit for how they played against one of the best teams in Europe. Second half Liverpool went up a level and we couldnt quite match them. Lets hope the team aren't too deflated and can get back to winning ways against Villa. I'm not confident though.

Martinelli obviously stood out for a livewire display tonight but I thought Partey was excellent again.

Agreed Bored. Villa away on such a short turn around worries me

a) because we might drop points and b) injuries (hamstrings etc…)

Villa have bounced back last couple of games and Gerard will have them primed. You know Martinez will have a blinder. In some ways this is a bigger test than tonight. I was hoping for something against Pool , especially after Spurs got three points but was less than confident
Saturday is a real test of character for Arteta and his young team.

On an entirely separate rant. I’m getting really f..ing pissed off keep losing to the Scousers. Part of me has a grudging admiration as they’ve done it the right way compared to the financially doped City and CFC but I’m really starting to get the right f..ing hump with them.

I’d rotate a bit for villa now. Give some a rest and bring in Pépé and Emile Smith Rowe maybe even lokonga.

So proud of the boys tonight.
We went toe to toe with them for first 50 minutes and were the better team.
Ødegaard scores and maybe it's a different game.
Echo your sentiments.
Hate *%^@*** losing to those *%^@*** scousers but what a team they are.
They refused to be knocked out by us , hung on in there then 2 knockout blows.
No shame in losing to an outstanding team.
We are on the right path.
I too am worried about the villa game.
Gerrard will have them hyped up for sure.

That’s more like it. Good times ahead

At the end of the day it’s 2 individual errors. It can be worked on.

Obviouisly, I am dissapointed in losing. However, we factored in this loss. Secondly, we made a good account of ourselves. Liverpool were desperate for a win, hence, Klopp's first half jumping up and down because he saw that we came to play and he was not only looking at a draw but with better finishing a possible loss.

We saw a Liverpool that turned it up to as high as they could because they are in a title fight and they had to leave with 3 points. We made them earn it and for that I'm proud. The team can keep their heads up.

On to the next. We played well in a game we were expected to lose. Context....context matters. Martinelli stepped up in a big game. This is a huge takeaway from this game. Saka is already a veteran with his mentality. Martinelli is showing he should be seriously considered when we have our starting XI next season.

Saka is taking a bit of blame for the second goal, I think it’s a bit tough, of course he could just kick it out for a throw but every player tries to clear it down the line - very few times does the ball get blocked and stay in play for a perfect crossing position.

The general passage of play felt like the only slight panicking defending we did

Frustrating to have no points from games v City and Liverpool especially when Spurs have taken 7 from them and haven’t played anywhere near as good as we did in the home games against the two.
In spurs home game with liverpool, Liverpool had a clear penalty not given, kane should have been sent off and Liverpool lost their head with a gift of a goal for Son (a rare Allison mistake) and a silly red card for Robertson.

Still feels like our season will come down to those two games v Man U and Spurs. For me I think it’s clear we are the all round better team but they both have individuals who can win matches they don’t deserve to

Klopp passionately defending Trent Alexander-Arnold’s defending again last night. I’m not one that thinks Trent is a poor defender, I think it’s more a case that his defending isn’t as brilliant as his stupendous attacking and as he pushes so high teams do target balls over his head - but also I’m not sure last night was the game to highlight how great a defender Trent is as it seemed like Martinelli had him terrified through most of the game

The feeling after last night is very similiar to the feeling after the City game at home; despite the fact that we lost, there are still more positives than negatives to reflect upon. The contrast between our away and home games against them is stark. We went toe to toe with two of the best sides in the world, and we did it by playing our own way and taking the game to them. Man Utd and Spurs wouldn't be able to do that, to get something from those games they'd need to adapt their game completely to their opponent (which Spurs at least are admittedly pretty good at).

It feels like that final 10% of quality is missing, which allowed Liverpool and City to punish us for our mistakes, while we couldn't do the same to them. The foundation and structure is there, and we're building our confidence too. Again comparing us to Spurs and Man Utd, they have more of that extra quality in players like Ronaldo, Kane, Son and Fernandes, players who will win you the game if given the opportunity. However they don't have the solid foundation, which is why they drop unexpected points against poorer opposition more often.

I would much rather be in our position. That final push of quality will be gained by signing a few quality players, and from the quality players we already have getting older and more experienced. Building a solid foundation is a lot more difficult and takes more time and skill. We're inching our way closer to the top, and just need to keep the team together, and keep improving. No huge rebuild is needed, which isn't the case for our rivals.

We need to get Arteta tied down to a new contract now. For me he deserves the contract whether we finish top 4 or not.

Also worth noting Klopp and Pep have contracts that expire in 2024. Both have hinted that they may not renew. If that turns out to be the case we need to be targeting the league title the year after. Those two managers embody everything about their teams and without them I think they will not hit the heights they have, certainly in the more difficult moments of the season

And that style of game plan relies on a lot of luck. Allowing the opposition to have all the ball and hoping that they squander their chances that come and that they switch off to allow you to counter can of course work but for sustainable long term progression and league titles you have to force your game and be the aggressor

Exactly that. It's not a game plan you rely on willingly, it's one you choose when you don't have the quality to get results any other way. Anyone being honest in their assassment would prefer a team that can impose their own game on the opponents.

Arsenal over the last decade or more can probably be accused of not being pragmatic enough in the big games, but in these last two home games against City and Liverpool it wasn't a lack of pragmatism that were our downfall. Liverpool didn't tear us apart last night, they just took advantage of the little we gave them. It's a lesson to learn, but not a bad one in the grand scheme of things.

Not sure if it has been mentioned but that was Tierney’s best game for us for a while. He was superb last night

Overall I thought it was a good effort last night but I was slightly disappointed in a few players.

I thought Ødegaard was unable to influence the game, which was not entirely his fault. We needed him to dictate the game but we just were not quite at a level which could allow him to do that and Liverpool's sharper pressing meant he was given very little time or space on the ball.

I thought White and Gabriel were slow to react defensively at times and were also too slow playing the ball out from the back. Gabriel seems to have developed that odd silly mistake in him too. I do wonder if the Gabi/White partnership will be the one to take us where we want to be despite our decent defensive record. If we want to start playing and beating the big boys in the PL and europe we need to make better decisions defensively because one or two mistakes is all it takes and it's game over, as we saw last night.

Ramsdale made a howler, which sadly was a gamechanger, but he's made so many brilliant saves this season its hard to be too critical.

Saka just couldn't get in the game which I think was a combination of Robertson and good doubling up on him. He's been brilliant all season so again no real criticism here.

Martinelli was a livewire but understandably looked knackered after 60 mins.

Partey was very good and I can't help but feel that a top midfielder alongside him could be the making of us.

Obviously, despite Lacazette's best efforts we desperately need a topclass CF.

This from Jonathan Liew in this morning’s Grauniad.

"The match in summary: Arsenal were the better side for 50 minutes and did nothing with it. Liverpool were the better side for the next 15 minutes and killed the game. As for the rest, who cares?"

And we played a Liverpool (once again) at their best. If Liverpool play at their best they will beat us, and every other team in the league bar City. If we’d played the Liverpool that turned up in either game v West Ham, their game v Brighton, or away to Leicester or another handful of games we’d have won last night.

Arteta is right to highlight the unfairness of playing late on Wednesday and then the early kick off on the Saturday. Klopp and Solksjaer have called it out in the past. It is a crazy schedule. And before people say we’ve had it easy with 1 game a week and when we play in Europe again we’ll have this schedule more often - it’s not about playing 2 games a week it’s about having to play the early game on a Saturday. If you play on a Wednesday there is no way your next game should be Saturday morning.

Overall I thought it was a good performance. Had we a fox in the box it might well have been different. We are closing the gap for sure. I did think heads did drop at the 2nd goal.

Did anyone say project? Get to work, agent Ødegaard

did he not mention we play on Monday evening as well?