Just don’t understand the Runnarsson deal, £1m which is fine but he takes up a non home grown space when he seems no better than a youth team gk. we need to go and get Raya from Brentford - although he might pass us in divisions if we keep playing like this.

When the entire fan base is pretty united in saying you’re picking the wrong team every week there is something massively wrong.

I can’t believe Arteta is hanging his early career as a manager on these total duds of senior players, we know what they do we know they won’t do any better - why keep entrusting them.

Leno, Gabriel, Tierney, Partey, Aubameyang and then build the rest of the team around saka, smith Rowe, AMN, Martinelli and Balogun. I’m up to 10 players there so just another 12 or so needed for a competent squad

Hi Rich,

Raya would probably cost £15m, just a little less than we sold Martinez for.

Saliba must be an absolute donkey in training if he can't get any minutes ahead of the bunch of prize turkeys he has ahead of him.

Even Gabriel is beginning to look a bit iffy.

I don’t understand the stewards enquiry, we knew he was *%^@ in the summer but needed the money to sign partey because we need midfielders.

Do people honestly believe we can compete across competitions right now ? We really aren’t that good.

Looks the right decision to me and if you gave me 30 million I wouldn’t spend it on a new reserve keeper believe me

Then you don’t have Thomas partey but do have a keeper on the bench that cost his team a premier league spot. Great decision

That's my point, no point spending £15m on a keeper when we sold a better one for not much more. Makes no sense.

Right now you have two of the most impressive Directors of Football available, neither is attached to a club and both have an impressive track record of building a club, a team and a philosophy, both are incredible talent spotters as well. Ralf Rangnick and Luis Campos.
Rangnick was at Hoffenheim, and recently Leipzig and is known as the godfather of geggenpressing, managers who have followed his philosophy are Klopp, Hassenhuttel and Nagelsmann. His track record is superb
Campos oversaw that incredible group at Monaco, Mendy, silva, Fabinho, Mbappe etc, he then went to Lille and repeated the trick, buying low selling high. We got Pépé and Gabriel from them, they just sold Pépé’s replacement for £70m as well and have the next batch of talent ready to be sold for huge fees.

When Pep and Klopp were available we stayed with Wenger who was already past his sell by date. We massively missed the boat. Now we have an opportunity to secure people at the absolute elite level of The Director of Football role, we will regret is massively if we miss out on one of these two. Rangnick would be a dream for me and I’d sacrifice any player in our team to get him because he would be bigger than any single player, he brings modernity and a clear vision.

The team is broken and its sad to watch. With Emery it looked like the players lost heart as they didn't know what they were meant to be doing. I dont feel like the players have given up on Arteta, its just what he's asking them to do is simply not working and luck is against him. That was a proper howler from the keeper at 1:1.

I think the only thing that could save Arteta and the team now, is get a quality midfielder signed ASAP, get Partey back fit and raring to go, and then hit a vein of luck that injects confidence back into them. I cant see him lasting that long though as if we lose the next 2 matches I think the majority of supporters will want him gone.

We're going down. I'm utterly convinced. The board need to spend big in jan knowing that losing our place in the PL will cost them more than any outlay. However, we don't have enough homegrown players to allow us to bring in any more players from abroad. We're in so much trouble.

There was talk of £10m in the summer and even though he signed a new deal to take him to 2024 it contains a release clause. Or don’t get Raya but get a seasoned older pro who is at least a steady pair of hands if called upon. Joe Hart’s stock has fallen but he was free this summer, there is a reason these old English gk keep getting picked up by big clubs it’s because they offer experience, a safe ish pair of hands and crucially don’t take a non home grown spot.
I feel a bit sorry for Runnarsson who just seems out of his depth.

I think the only way we stagger through this season is by signing a pair of midfielders in Jan. there has to be a cash injection. Buendia from Norwich and Bissouma from Brighton. Something like that to get some a solid presence in front of the back 4 and some creativity linking midfield and attack.

The only reason I think we’ll stay up is Sheffield United, West Brom and Fulham being even worse. I can see Burnley and Brighton overtaking us. Fulham worry me a bit. Even though they’re historically my second favourite London club, I now want them to drop points because I don’t think it’s impossible they could end up pressurising us. The modus operandi of Mr Allardyce is getting rubbish teams to stay up. If he can similarly improve things at WBA, even they could feasibly put us under pressure.

I agree with dec as I’ve said it a few times now, there are plenty of managers who I think would get far more out the players on our books than Arteta. I still want him to get more time, but after the Chelsea game we have a run of fixtures against fellow relegation strugglers. If we don’t pick up enough points in those, which on paper are less challenging games, I’ll want Arteta out. Hopefully that’ll give a newcomer enough time to save things.

I'm very worried now. We are a very poor team bereft of any confidence and relying on young, unproven players to come in and make a difference.

To pick the clowns Kolasinac and Mustafi once again is beyond me. And what can you say about the keeper? A complete tube which apparently was evident to anyone with an interest in Ligue Un.

Hard to see a way out of this at the minute.

Darren who I think of as being level headed has just depressed me.
How much would we lose financially if we got relegated? I know the Kroenke's don't care about sporting success but presumably they care about losing an astronomical amount of revenue from dropping into the Championship. Are they prepared to spend big in January to save us from relegation?

The only players who look like they care are: Tierney Saka and Gabriel. Martinelli tonight looked determined as well. And probably Rob Holding. As for the rest, limited players many at the club far too long. We've been through the names many a time. Can Partey and Aubameyang step it up a level for us? Maybe, but football is a team game and we are not a team at the moment.

I'm certain another manager could get more from this squad. I liked Arteta's approach and he also initially got more from them. But the pragmatism and non-negeotiables have gone out the window. Likely because there are so many not performing that it makes it hard for him to enforce the principles without benching 5 players at a time. If poor results continue I think the sacking may come soon to allow a new manager to recruit in Jan.

Is that the same Joe Hart that had at least 2 errors leading to goals against LASK?

I think focusing on the back up keeper as an issue or the sign that Arteta can't sign players is a bit too much. Out of a squad of 25 there are probably 12 decent players, 2 of those 12 Arteta signed. The squad is terrible and I wouldn't be overly confident that much would change.

The club are paying for years of poor transfer activity starting during the later Wenger years (Xhaka, Mustafi, Perez, Silvestre etc) and continuing with Sanheli/Emery (e.g. Pépé over Zaha). Arteta/Edu were always going to be on a hiding to nothing coming in to try and turn things around.

We used to bemoan how Wenger sold top performers not long after they passed 30-32. But these were proven performers with Arsenal.
We'vee replaced that with a policy of buying players well past their prime who are looking to cruise into retirement and who have no affiliation with Arsenal at all.

For 6 weeks until they give up on him as well? The players are the issue, all we can hope to achieve this season is a lower mid table finish and a clean out over the summer. The big question for me is if Edu is capable enough to purchase the correct players?

Been thinking this way for a fortnight.
I think the other teams in trouble have more fight in them. And Fat Sam may work his magic on WBA. Imagine how fired up the few teams below us will be when we play them.

A six week run may be the difference between relegation and staying up. Agree with you that the players are crap. But six weeks of a new manager bounce that produces a few wins may be the only thing that will save us

We obviously need a few positions sorted out but if we can only have one buy or one position sorted it would be a suitable partner for Partey. A playmaker, a 'quarterback'. We have two. Ceballos and Özil. For reasons we are all aware of neither are an option.
We need someone in that position. Desperately. Either swallow pride and play Özil or bring someone in. My preference? As a short term (this season and possibly next) stop gap bring back Fabregas. Or tell Kroenke the possible consequences of inaction and buy Aouar pretty much no matter the price. Or find another target.

I still think we should experiment with a Saka/Partey pairing in the middle. My gut says it would be very good. Saka isn't the passer Fabregas, Özil and others are but he is dynamic and he is decent enough at distributing to take a risk. Both are dynamic, both have pace. A pairing like that won't be overrun. If we go 4-3-3, we can slide Elneny in or someone else. My guess is the opposition will have to commit to stopping them and it may free up Aubameyang, Martinelli, Lacazette, Pépé or Willian or whatever combination we have for runs.

As for us going down, I am not worried at all. We'll get well over the traditional 30 point threshold. My guess? We'll hover around 10th to 12th when all is said and done. Not acceptable but no relegation either. We'll be in the 40s point wise I am guessing. With Martinelli, Partey and Gabriel all available at the same time I think we will see a huge improvement. With about a couple dozen games left, we can win 1 out of 3 on average. Yes, asking a lot from where we are standing now but I think we will improve considerably with the aforementioned available.

Saliba is the only real option at the back with Gabriel. It's a sad commentary of our scouting if Holding, Mustafi and Luiz are deemed better right now. That is unacceptable. Someone got it terribly wrong. Either way. Either he was never as good as we thought and the scouts got it terribly wrong or he is good enough and they got his readiness terribly wrong. Either way completely unacceptable. I am hoping its the latter.

I’m not focusing on our back up gk, it is just that he was the one new problem to talk about from last nights game. Joe Hart is clearly a better gk, if you don’t fancy him then we could have had Ben Foster or Fraser Forster for a similar price this summer. The main point being that Runnarsson took one of the non home grown spots in the squad and those older English players wouldn’t have, which means we could have had another foreign player available either a purchase or someone like Özil or Saliba if fans want to go down that route.
Of course I agree our problems are bigger than just our reserve gk I’ve written about them enough times - but I’ve just found a new one!

There is no way we should be going down with the players we have. I’d go as far to say that this squad should be able to pick the team and tactics themselves with no manager and shouldn’t be relegated. If they do get relegated then it would be a stain on the players careers forever. Forever they’d be known as the group who simply gave up and accepted it. Teams with good players go down but if we were relegated it would go down in history above Leicester winning the title.

Eh? What traditional 30 point threshold?

It’s more like 40. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1174821

On current form we are nowhere near getting that.

Not sure it's just fight, the other teams simply look better than us. It's hard to put the finger on exactly what's wrong other than us just being completely awful. If any good can come from this situation, I hope it's an actual wake up call that Arsenal has been allowed to drift for so long. They simply haven't adjusted to Wenger not being at the club. Once he left, the vacuum has been shown to be vast. I'm not talking about Wenger in the dugout as his time was up, but his influence in the day to day running of things.

I also think the old board who made money by selling to Kroenke/ Usmanov should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. I think the day Dein was sacked, was the day this current malaise started. Irrespective of how one felt about Dein, Fiszman etc, politics had invaded the boardroom and we are now seeing the result of a runaway train of piss poor decisions.

For 40 points we need another 26 from somewhere. Let’s say that is 7 wins and 5 draws. You’re looking at identifying the games where we’d get those points.
West Brom home and away
Fulham home
Newcastle home and away
Sheff Utd away
Brighton home and away
Palace home and away
In my view those are the 6 other weakest teams in the league and those are the games we have against them and must target wins in. There’s 10 games there. Right now I wouldn’t have confidence in us winning any of them.

Bang on, sadly. I was/am a great fan of Dein. Wenger missed him enormously.

This squad won the FA Cup beat Liverpool, City and United. They are more than good enough to be higher up the table. I'm with Bernard on this. After Chelsea there are 4 matches against we should on paper be better than. A poor run there and it should be P45 time. We could do worse than have a look at Michael O Neil at Stoke.

Dearest Forumites,
We had a most terrible year and it's unfortunately far from over yet! What is happening to my beloved
England is breaking my heart! I hope 2021 will be a year of healing and less heart ache.
Please look after yourselves and your loved ones, as that's the most important thing in this life!
Have a hopefully peaceful Christmas and please stay safe, while you enjoy connecting with your
family and friends, maybe on zoom during these holidays.
Let's drink to a better and Healthier 2021!
Best Wishes from : Judith and my little family

Thank you Judith. Have a lovely Christmas, whatever you're all doing and a happy and healthy 2021.

Thank you Judith. Best wishes to you and your family too.

I would think most fans would agree we should be higher up the table with the players we have. Where that position is is up for debate. If you took all managers out of the equation and just judged squads on ‘on paper’ ability we are somewhere between 6th-10th I reckon.

So the question is, is Arteta more to blame for not getting more out of the players or are the players to blame for not pulling their socks up and performing at the level they can?

A new manager with the same players takes us higher. The same manager with 6-7 new signings also takes us higher. Who would I rather back in the long run is tough to say. Arteta started brightly, did and said all the right things but he has gone away from all of that this season. A lot of these players have also consistently let us down.

And there is also everything above the manager that is a total mess.

Massive January window coming up, probably the biggest transfer window in recent history. Whatever we’re left with on Feb 1 is what has to save us from relegation and at the moment I’m not liking what I’m seeing

Merry Christmas to you and all the family Judith, and hopefully a better year ahead for all of us.

Hi Judith,

You are right, what is happening around the world is an absolute tragedy and puts into clear perspective the disappointment of what is happening at Arsenal. In the overall scheme of things Arsenal's demise is just a very tiny ripple in the water of life. Nothing is more important than family and loved ones.

I hope that you and your family have a wonderful Christmas (or as wonderful as it can be under the circumstances) and a healthy and prosperous new year and lets hope that this pandemic is done and dusted by next Christmas.

Regards.....Soc

Thanks ltg, for some reason 30 some odd points was something I recall. Maybe its 40.
I must have been going by the early 00s. I took a look and mid 30s was generally the cut off for the first several years. And I took a look at the 3 years or so it was around 33/34 points.

Be that as it may, we'll stay up. You have the AG guarantee. You can take it to the bank. You can redeem it for points at Tescos.

Happy holidays and thanks for checking in with us. All the best to everyone in the family.

That was kind of my thought too. I'm not saying I want Arteta sacked immediately but if we lose the next 2 or 3 matches then I'm not sure there are too many options. Can only hope that there is a Fergie moment coming and all of a sudden things just start to click. And no I haven't been drinking.

One thing that I noticed last night is that when Martinelli got injured and lay in agony on the ground not a single Arsenal player went over to check on him, bar Lacazette who eventually trotted over.

Is it a covid thing where players are told not to huddle around injured players or is it just that our players don't give a *%^@?