We have to be building the team around the young jewels like Saka and Emile Smith Rowe.
Could one of the reasons we haven't tied down Emile Smith Rowe yet down to playing time.
Does he want guarantees he will be a regular starter in his favoured position where maybe Villa have indicated that he will start as first choice for them.
The thing is we cant solely rely on him as our sole creative force. We have to get someone else in but by doing this do we lessen our chances of tying him down.
Really tricky situation.
I didn't like the way he was pushed aside for Ødegaard.
The link up play between Saka and Emile Smith Rowe was a joy to behold.

Supposedly personal terms agreed to with White. I assume most fans won't believe until he's presented. Understandable.

I'm not expecting an end to end affair for the final. My guess? Italy will sneak a goal by hook or crook and defend cynically for the rest of the game. Just a guess.

But congrats to a few people on here on being in the final. England's first major trophy in a while possibly. Exciting times.

More Revolting behaviour here. Milking it for all its worth

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/touc ... 44740.html

Don't pull the teat too hard:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/08/foot ... index.html

Sickening stuff. Pure revulsion. Time to leave the country etc .. yes not an overreaction

Btw me and my mates found one of those things in the boozer once someone had left by accident. Endless drunken fun was had, girls were taking it off us to flash down the tops and stuff. Pure childish nonsense. Not really sinister just not useful

I have actually explained that should England win and I didn’t have commitments that stopped me, I would find it a good time to take a holiday abroad. I don’t see what your problem is with that. It sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

.. to escape English peoples revolting behaviour.

I’d be surprised if you weren’t tempted to do similar to avoid the alleged behaviour of leavers when the Brexit vote happened.

How? It totally *%^@** people’s ability to leave with no freedom of movement as well !

I'll be leaving for a little holiday to an EU destination next week. If you need any advice on how to get out of the country dm me. Only joking, please don't dm me.

You misunderstood my point. I was talking about whether you were tempted to go abroad for a holiday to avoid the triumphalism of some pro-Brexit leavers.

Yeah that bits not really the problem

Well no I mean I go on lots of holidays as well as business trips so it’s not needed. Also Brexit was an event that actually happened rather than a self created persona I needed to escape from.

I go abroad lots as well. We obviously have different views about or attitudes towards triumphalism. I’ve never celebrated that way myself and feel uncomfortable when others do so. It’s not my personality or character to behave in that way.

For me, there’s so much triumphalism when England win, and I have little doubt it’ll get worse when, or I should say if, England win on Sunday. If you’re fine with triumphalism, then okay it’s your right. But I’m not and that’s my right.

I agree. About the time I think we have to sell the dream to them. But they must also be sure they are a vital cog in the team.

I'd like to know of a time when the population of any country has not been triumphal in sporting victory? It is an inevitable outcome of any tournament. Even the serial winners like Germany, Brazil and Italy are not blase about winning football competitions. Similarly decades of domination by the West Indies and Aussie cricket teams and the USA Olympics squads. No meek inheriting the earth there?

Has nobody told you Hoy, being proud of your country and flag and sporting achievements is fine, unless it's the English of course. That's not allowed.

Not mentioned on here, but what's really vile, revolting behaviour is booing the opposition's national anthem. Doesn't matter the opposing country, it just shows ignorance, intolerance, and disrespect.

I have explained that I haven’t been in other countries when they win tournaments. So I have not experienced their triumphalism first hand. I’ve never denied it exists.

What I have experienced first hand is the triumphalism in England when the national team wins. And I find it utterly distasteful. That’s a reason I don’t want England’s national team to win.

I mentioned when England played Germany that the German national anthem was booed, and asked if other nation’s supporters boo their opponent’s national anthems. I saw the prelude to the England Denmark game last night, although I watched little of the game itself. I noticed Denmark’s national anthem was booed. I just didn’t mention it.

Is it done in other countries?

Hi Bernard,
I now recall you did mention the booing of the German anthem. There was booing of the Denmark one as well. Haven't heard booing of the English anthem by opposition fans yet. There would be mayhem if that ever happened. Sunday hopefully no booing of Italy's anthem, but nothing is ever certain. The morons may still come out in force.

Jeering the opposing players is one thing, but booing a nation's scared anthem is an extremely insensitive act. Shows a complete lack of class and awareness.

I hope we beat them twice but will be cheering for Palace the rest of the games. A team I've always had a soft spot for. I think they might struggle but you never know.

Exactly omoh. Silly to suggest a country shouldn't. A tangential concern is when victory is used for uber nationalism (1936) or part of the cold war (US, USSR). For some countries its needed. There are some developing countries that could use some self pride. There are accounts of countries in civil wars having a momentary respite over a victory.

I was visiting Korea when the whole country was celebrating a gold medal in Archery. Archery. lol.

My only issue as it relates to America is how Americans become idiot savants in football every World Cup.
That said, countries celebrating their athletic success is normal. Wouldn't it be abnormal otherwise?

Out of curiosity I looked at the past champions and such of the Euros. I was a bit surprised it "only" started in 1960. Also, how good the USSR were good early on. I really don't recall seeing the USSR do very well in the World Cup. Hadn't realized England made it to the semis in 1968 but makes sense so soon after 1966 World Cup.

A bit surprised West Germany lost their own tournament in 1988 but it was to Netherlands and when you have van Basten, you are always a threat. ;)

Losing to the Germans in '74 caused a national trauma, as we had the better team and the better players. The Germans were also still hated because of WW II. Beating them at their own turf in '88 was sweet. We had van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaard, a great team. However that '74 team was better. Cruijff, van Hanegem, Krol, Jansen. Our clubs dominated Europe but we couldn't beat the #$@!% at their home turf. Jack Taylor gifting them a penalty.

Booing the national anthem is done abroad but not much. Amongst the home nations it’s done a lot and god save the Queen was booed by Scotland in 2017 and the SFA were fined. Similar incidents in other games for years. Wales, England Scotland it’s all the same. Seems to be on the rise also.

Abroad it’s seen as worse etiquette. I remember being hugely relieved when Arsenal fans clapped the Zaragoza players after a final loss once when they came to applaud us as for a moment I thought they were going to get booed at the end of the game.

I was in Berlin for a game and there was some whistling during the national anthem but no booing. Boxing ? It’s hysterical ! Our boxing fans booed the star spangled banner at several fights in Vegas and the Americans have never seen anything like it and asked me about it, I just said hey it’s what we do. Mayweather has praised the British fans and said without them some of these fights wouldn’t have been what they are. It’s kind of funny but not if you know what I mean

It will be on the rise for some time, the government has pushed an agenda of separatism for some time that has altered the mindset and psyche of brits and how they perceive people not from these shores. Is it good no but it’s not going away.

Anyway, forza Azurri!

Super article by Hunter Davies in the Times today about the 1966 World Cup and then about now.

I had to smile when I read this piece:

I do sense a nasty strain of jingoism and triumphalism during the present celebrations, thrilled though the nation clearly is. God know what will happen if at long last we actually win something on Sunday.

Yes it has been a great relief for the nation after 18 months of lockdown, but all nations suffered the same. Perhaps it is the effect of Brexit, bringing out the worst in Little Englanders.

Could have been written by Bernard.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/euro ... f5bd467868

Of course this makes total sense.

It’s also worth pointing out that England were far from the first side to add the gold star to indicate World Cup wins to their team shirts and Italy, Brazil and Germany did this many year’s before them.

British triumphalism my arse. About what precisely ? A grand total of *%^@ all. It’s been failure and misery largely. Enjoy life for a change

Interesting quote, LTG. I think it's fairly obvious that it's triumphalism that Bernard is complaining about ('excessive delight in and celebration of the defeat of one's rivals; the belief that a particular doctrine, theory, religion, etc., is superior to all others'). Do AG, Hoy etc really think he believes England fans shouldn't celebrate at all?

Completely agree about the England fans behaviour/booing of the national anthems

Just to say hello to everyone, I'm a middle aged Gooner who has just deactivated Twitter account as it's become such a toxic environment in recent months!

Welcome aboard 1979.

So, you left Twitter because it was toxic and decided to come here ?

Hello 79 and welcome to the forum. Hope you find a new home here, there's no place like it. Pace is a bit more sedate than Tw*tter!

I am surprised that no one has mentioned shining the laser in the keepers face on the penalty. I suppose after getting a dodgy penalty any tactics are justified.

Come on Warrior, leave TG alone

And riles up the opposition.

Haha. I did join this forum a long long time ago but drifted away as I wrote a blog many moons ago (maybe around 15/20 yrs back I'd guess).

I look forward to contributing very little of meaning in a slightly rambling manner.

Random one - what are people's thoughts about the way Arteta is going to setup the team next season?

To me it seems he seems to be building more flexibility into the squad to have a more malleable formation/strategy during games - I think he quite likes players who can play as left/right sided centre back in a 5 at the back, as well as playing full back in a 4-4-2 - this may explain his move for Ben White who seems pretty adaptable and good in either role - plus maybe Tavares may at times play as full back in a 5 with Tierney as the left sided centre back? I'd imagine in this context he's keen to ship Bellerin out as he cannot play as a right sided centre back, and he'd clearly prefer to use Chambers there?