Fixtures Sunday April 28th - Tottenham Hotspur - Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - 2:00 Pm

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Post #480121  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:45 am 
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Bernard wrote:
But I’ve mentioned England playing six of seven games at home before. If England were the host nation they should have played all seven at Wembley. But England weren’t. So how the hell did them having six at home happen? What was the reason for it? I just don’t get it. I initially assumed it had something to do with Covid. But I’ve since read in more than one place it wasn’t linked to that. So why?
Presumably it is partly explained by England finishing top of their group and thereby being in the part of the draw that had Wembley as a venue? If they hadn't topped their group then they would have played more games away from Wembley. The semi-finals and final was always going to be at Wembley regardless of who was contesting it. Worth remembering that in the group stages England was not alone in playing all their games at home - so did Denmark, Netherlands, Spain and Germany. The hard done by were France and Portugal - no matches at all in those countries!

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Post #480122  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:49 am 
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Bernard wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Not at all. Of all the stuff in the world that needs explaining this would come pretty low down for most people.

If you’re including social and political issues, I would agree there are far bigger issues to worry about. But I wasn’t. I was looking solely at the fairness of an international football competition not played in a host country. So what happened should be explained in my view.

I wasn’t particularly. There is more than enough dodgy stuff in football that ‘needs explaining’ before one ever considered this. And this isn’t even dodgy.

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Post #480123  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:54 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Moreover, we saw last season that the behind closed doors policy drastically compromised home advantage. But crowds were allowed for the Euros so playing at Wembley can only be seen as a huge benefit for England. For yesterday’s final I’ve heard the relatively small number of Italians were hugely outnumbered and that same advantage applied to all England’s games apart from the quarter final against the Ukraine at a neutral ground in Rome.

The fact that Italy ended up winning the trophy probably means UEFA won’t have any explaining to do. But I think they should.


England should have been playing in Dublin for one of the games but our useless spinless government decided we couldn't host the game so it was relocated to Wembley. Hence England's run at Wembley.

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Post #480124  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:00 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Moreover, we saw last season that the behind closed doors policy drastically compromised home advantage. But crowds were allowed for the Euros so playing at Wembley can only be seen as a huge benefit for England. For yesterday’s final I’ve heard the relatively small number of Italians were hugely outnumbered and that same advantage applied to all England’s games apart from the quarter final against the Ukraine at a neutral ground in Rome.

The fact that Italy ended up winning the trophy probably means UEFA won’t have any explaining to do. But I think they should.


England should have been playing in Dublin for one of the games but our useless spinless government decided we couldn't host the game so it was relocated to Wembley. Hence England's run at Wembley.

I think that you mean spineless. They very definitely aren’t spinless. :laughing7:

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Post #480125  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:22 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Moreover, we saw last season that the behind closed doors policy drastically compromised home advantage. But crowds were allowed for the Euros so playing at Wembley can only be seen as a huge benefit for England. For yesterday’s final I’ve heard the relatively small number of Italians were hugely outnumbered and that same advantage applied to all England’s games apart from the quarter final against the Ukraine at a neutral ground in Rome.

The fact that Italy ended up winning the trophy probably means UEFA won’t have any explaining to do. But I think they should.


England should have been playing in Dublin for one of the games but our useless spinless government decided we couldn't host the game so it was relocated to Wembley. Hence England's run at Wembley.

Uefa insisted on a minimum 25% capacity which in this case is 12k people. That decision was taken in April when the vaccination programme was nowhere near what it is now. Also, foreign travel was being actively discouraged but with England being so close, that fixture would have been very challenging. It would also have involved making an exception to the Covid restrictions to allow the England football team play a game in Dublin, while Irish sporting events were curtailed. The government acted upon the advice of the health experts and quite honestly, there was no vocal opposition to the decision.

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Post #480126  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:49 am 
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dec wrote:
Gunfire wrote:

England should have been playing in Dublin for one of the games but our useless spinless government decided we couldn't host the game so it was relocated to Wembley. Hence England's run at Wembley.

Uefa insisted on a minimum 25% capacity which in this case is 12k people. That decision was taken in April when the vaccination programme was nowhere near what it is now. Also, foreign travel was being actively discouraged but with England being so close, that fixture would have been very challenging. It would also have involved making an exception to the Covid restrictions to allow the England football team play a game in Dublin, while Irish sporting events were curtailed. The government acted upon the advice of the health experts and quite honestly, there was no vocal opposition to the decision.


See what all your German stuff has started Bernard :laughing7:


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Post #480127  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:16 am 
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socrates wrote:
Firstly, it is a magnificent achievement to reach the final of an international tournament like the Euros so well done England.

That's what they say at the Oscars - "It's an honour just to be nominated ..." :12hello-bye:


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Post #480128  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:32 am 
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I think England blew it by being too cautious. They should have won.


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Post #480129  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:38 am 
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warrior wrote:
socrates wrote:
Firstly, it is a magnificent achievement to reach the final of an international tournament like the Euros so well done England.

That's what they say at the Oscars - "It's an honour just to be nominated ..." :12hello-bye:


Well, it's an honour to be allowed to participate on this board......even if no one takes any notice of anything I say.


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Post #480130  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:54 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Are you expecting some kind of massive investigation just because England got to a final ? It ain’t gonna happen mate. They are building the World Cup 22 infrastructure in a country that still has modern day slaves. Your quest for justice will fall on deaf ears but if you want maybe you should get Chris to knock you up one of his awesome petitions

No I’m not expecting an investigation. I’ve already said that. But I would be asking the same questions if all but one of Germany’s games, had they reached the final, been in Munich; with the same applying to Italy with games being in Rome, France and Paris, and every other other country in it. It just seems unfair and thus wrong.

FA Cup semi- finals used to be held at neutral club venues. If any club reached the semi and it was played at their own ground very predominantly in front of their own fans, I would be saying exactly the same and that’s just one game. Even if Arsenal reached it and it was played at Highbury.

Whenever the format of the Euros was decided, it still seems wrong.


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Post #480131  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:11 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Presumably it is partly explained by England finishing top of their group and thereby being in the part of the draw that had Wembley as a venue? If they hadn't topped their group then they would have played more games away from Wembley. The semi-finals and final was always going to be at Wembley regardless of who was contesting it. Worth remembering that in the group stages England was not alone in playing all their games at home - so did Denmark, Netherlands, Spain and Germany. The hard done by were France and Portugal - no matches at all in those countries!

I’d have expected the first place team in a group to benefit, on paper, from not playing another first place team. But I still say the location of both semis and the final was inevitably going to benefit England if they reached them. The same applies if they’d been held in any other country, surely? I would be asking exactly the same, with no host country. It seems unfair.


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Post #480132  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:19 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
I wasn’t particularly. There is more than enough dodgy stuff in football that ‘needs explaining’ before one ever considered this. And this isn’t even dodgy.

I’m sorry but for me, something somewhere being worse is no reason not to ask questions. A serious robbery not involving a killing should still be investigated by the police whether or not (and it is) a murder is worse.


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Post #480133  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:52 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Perhaps I am considering England didn’t win. But don’t you think it needs explaining?

Not at all. Of all the stuff in the world that needs explaining this would come pretty low down for most people.

Isn't that 'whataboutism'?

Like 'how can you think of prosecuting someone for the trifling crime of theft (or corruption or disobeying a court order) when the likes of FW de Klerk, Tony Blair and G W Bush walk free? Where are your priorities!'

If you've been following what is happening in SA you'll have a sense of what I am talking about :laughing7: :laughing7:

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Post #480134  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:54 pm 
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socrates wrote:
warrior wrote:
That's what they say at the Oscars - "It's an honour just to be nominated ..." :12hello-bye:


Well, it's an honour to be allowed to participate on this board......even if no one takes any notice of anything I say.

:angel4: there are rare moments when you almost make sense, Socrates.

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Post #480135  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:57 pm 
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I really dislike penalty shootouts. As final resort, they are better than tossing coin but I think it is a pity that the 'golden goal' or 'silver goal' systems wasn't continued.

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Post #480136  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:11 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
I’d have expected the first place team in a group to benefit, on paper, from not playing another first place team. But I still say the location of both semis and the final was inevitably going to benefit England if they reached them. The same applies if they’d been held in any other country, surely? I would be asking exactly the same, with no host country. It seems unfair.
You are asking UEFA to explain about the venue of the semi-finals and final when it was agreed well before the tournament commenced. Rather like ECL final venues - not unusual for a finalist to be playing in their home country or sometimes even own stadium. This all seems rather unimportant and not to have been much of an issue for the other teams taking part. If England had failed to get out of the group there would be no discussion. Anyway, you could say that the final result disproves the argument that England would inevitably benefit from playing at home - when it came to the shoot out it is debatable that there was less pressure on the England than Italian players?

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Post #480137  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:22 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
I really dislike penalty shootouts. As final resort, they are better than tossing coin but I think it is a pity that the 'golden goal' or 'silver goal' systems wasn't continued.
Yes it is a sad thing to see a team game decided by what in the end is seen as an individual error, the burden of which the unlucky player has to carry. The golden goal was more organic than penalties, but then I disliked the way it guillotined any response from the opposition. Too abrupt for me. Maybe we should go for a They Shoot Horses, Don't They solution - play on, and on and on until the strongest survives. The broadcasters wouldn't like that though.

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Post #480138  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:31 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I really dislike penalty shootouts. As final resort, they are better than tossing coin but I think it is a pity that the 'golden goal' or 'silver goal' systems wasn't continued.
Yes it is a sad thing to see a team game decided by what in the end is seen as an individual error, the burden of which the unlucky player has to carry. The golden goal was more organic than penalties, but then I disliked the way it guillotined any response from the opposition. Too abrupt for me. Maybe we should go for a They Shoot Horses, Don't They solution - play on, and on and on until the strongest survives. The broadcasters wouldn't like that though.

They wouldn't like a coin toss either. Awful TV (and marginally more random than penalty shootouts). On the other hand, coin tosses don't unfairly create villains of players like Saka.

I don't mind the odd penalty shootout. It just feels like they happen too often in these tournaments.

If I had my way, I'd make it so that the team ranked lower in the FIFA rankings would win if the game was still tied after 120 minutes.

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Post #480139  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:38 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
They wouldn't like a coin toss either. Awful TV (and marginally more random than penalty shootouts). On the other hand, coin tosses don't unfairly create villains of players like Saka.

I don't mind the odd penalty shootout. It just feels like they happen too often in these tournaments.

If I had my way, I'd make it so that the team ranked lower in the FIFA rankings would win if the game was still tied after 120 minutes.
Or the team wearing a white shirt with an animal in the badge?

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Post #480140  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:43 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I really dislike penalty shootouts. As final resort, they are better than tossing coin but I think it is a pity that the 'golden goal' or 'silver goal' systems wasn't continued.
Yes it is a sad thing to see a team game decided by what in the end is seen as an individual error, the burden of which the unlucky player has to carry. The golden goal was more organic than penalties, but then I disliked the way it guillotined any response from the opposition. Too abrupt for me. Maybe we should go for a They Shoot Horses, Don't They solution - play on, and on and on until the strongest survives. The broadcasters wouldn't like that though.

I think a modification of the 'Silver goal' could have worked: if a team scores in extra time, rest the clock from when the team scores and play 15 minutes from that point. At least the other team has a decent chance of responding. It might result in extra time being truncated to 15 minutes and 20 second, or dragging on for 45 minutes ... but better than ghastly penalties in my view.

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Post #480141  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:55 pm 
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Is it too soon to congratulate England for exiting unbeaten at the tournament?

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Post #480142  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:59 pm 
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A good tournament overall with some excellent games once the group stage was out of the way. Taking nothing away from Donarumma as player of the competition but football definitely has regressed at the highest level. There were no Platini's, Zidane's, Laudrup "s, Del Piero's or Duff's to be seen and that is sad for the game.

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Post #480143  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:02 pm 
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And finally thoughts with Saka this morning. Very sad to see an Arsenal man miss the vital penalty for his country in the final. Also must extend sympathy to Rashford who has done amazing things off the field this year and Sancho fir the horrific racist abuse they are being treated to by elements on social media.

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Post #480144  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:04 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Is it too soon to congratulate England for exiting unbeaten at the tournament?

England's defeat must have been a terrible blow but denial won't help. You must be brave, Niall.

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Post #480145  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:44 pm 
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So true. Have a lot to answer for

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... d-24517683


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Post #480146  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:06 pm 
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Niall wrote:
. There were no Platini's, Zidane's, Laudrup "s, Del Piero's or Duff's to be seen and that is sad for the game.

Dunno about that. England’s penalties were pretty duff.

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Post #480147  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:07 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Niall wrote:
Is it too soon to congratulate England for exiting unbeaten at the tournament?

England's defeat must have been a terrible blow but denial won't help. You must be brave, Niall.

Eh? You do know that he’s not English don’t you ? :icon_mrgreen:

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Post #480148  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:44 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Decaf wrote:
England's defeat must have been a terrible blow but denial won't help. You must be brave, Niall.

Eh? You do know that he’s not English don’t you ? :icon_mrgreen:

I have gathered certain very faint hints and indications in that regard down the years, LTG. :laughing7: :laughing7:

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Post #480149  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:20 pm 
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When I posted the odds, I hinted I thought Italy would win in extra time. I just thought the Italians would find a way. If England had one, I'd be happy for a few Brits I have to come to know. I used to cheer for England and France (Scotland and Ireland by extension).

Got soured on cheering for reasons that may be obvious to some. :42laughter: but if they did well, I'd be happy for a very few.

Feel badly for Saka as I'm sure every Gooner is. I'm hoping he will put it behind him but its asking a lot. I wouldn't be able to. If he has another good season it will help.

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Post #480150  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:02 pm 
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Nice recognition for Xhaka here: https://www.facebook.com/101GreatGoalsC ... 057756721/

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Post #480151  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:45 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Niall wrote:
. There were no Platini's, Zidane's, Laudrup "s, Del Piero's or Duff's to be seen and that is sad for the game.

Dunno about that. England’s penalties were pretty duff.

:icon_mrgreen:

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Post #480152  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:30 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Yes it is a sad thing to see a team game decided by what in the end is seen as an individual error, the burden of which the unlucky player has to carry. The golden goal was more organic than penalties, but then I disliked the way it guillotined any response from the opposition. Too abrupt for me. Maybe we should go for a They Shoot Horses, Don't They solution - play on, and on and on until the strongest survives. The broadcasters wouldn't like that though.

They wouldn't like a coin toss either. Awful TV (and marginally more random than penalty shootouts). On the other hand, coin tosses don't unfairly create villains of players like Saka.

I don't mind the odd penalty shootout. It just feels like they happen too often in these tournaments.

If I had my way, I'd make it so that the team ranked lower in the FIFA rankings would win if the game was still tied after 120 minutes.


I reckon we should have a replay a couple of days later but be forced to pick an entirely different starting XI from the 26 man squad. Then we'd see who had the best squad of players, and we'd have another spin of the money wheel which only makes the suits happy. Last night's match was a draw, so lets have another game to sort it out. Also, the players who didn't see any or much action could feel a bit more involved.

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Post #480153  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:33 pm 
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I don't think Italy were the better side. Was even Stevens for me. England owned first half hour. Italy then dominated til around 70mins. England then shaded the remainder.

Italy didn't create that many clear cut chances, lots of long range efforts that didn't really threaten and Pickford only had to make one good save. England had a lot of dangerous moments but didn't get the lucky breaks in the box at times. Plus Italy's cynical cheating stopped several good breaks and ref was far too lenient on the deliberate fouling.

Jorginho was a disgrace to football with his two episodes of feigning injury, first half to break England's momentum and extra time to avoid the red card he deserved. I can never love that kind of cynical cheating, sad that the ref was pretty weak and conned by it.


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Post #480154  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:51 pm 
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1979gooner wrote:
I don't think Italy were the better side. Was even Stevens for me. England owned first half hour. Italy then dominated til around 70mins. England then shaded the remainder.

Italy didn't create that many clear cut chances, lots of long range efforts that didn't really threaten and Pickford only had to make one good save. England had a lot of dangerous moments but didn't get the lucky breaks in the box at times. Plus Italy's cynical cheating stopped several good breaks and ref was far too lenient on the deliberate fouling.

Jorginho was a disgrace to football with his two episodes of feigning injury, first half to break England's momentum and extra time to avoid the red card he deserved. I can never love that kind of cynical cheating, sad that the ref was pretty weak and conned by it.

I agree, pretty even for me and even though Italy had more possession in the 2nd half I couldn’t see them scoring from open play. In the end they were saved by a scrambled goal from a set piece. England really should have thrown the kitchen sink at them before it went to penalties as they were always likely to lose on them.


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Post #480155  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:45 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:


So untrue. Sad to see the woke, sore at Boris' trouncing of Labour at the ballot box seek to hijack this for their political ends.

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Post #480156  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:47 pm 
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1979gooner wrote:
I don't think Italy were the better side. Was even Stevens for me. England owned first half hour. Italy then dominated til around 70mins. England then shaded the remainder.

Italy didn't create that many clear cut chances, lots of long range efforts that didn't really threaten and Pickford only had to make one good save. England had a lot of dangerous moments but didn't get the lucky breaks in the box at times. Plus Italy's cynical cheating stopped several good breaks and ref was far too lenient on the deliberate fouling.

Jorginho was a disgrace to football with his two episodes of feigning injury, first half to break England's momentum and extra time to avoid the red card he deserved. I can never love that kind of cynical cheating, sad that the ref was pretty weak and conned by it.


Sorry but the stats don't lie. Italy were far superior in the 2nd half. I think England got better when Saka came on or maybe it is my gooner tinted glasses. Over the 120 mins they were the better team.

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Post #480157  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:48 pm 
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Decaf wrote:


Pogba no way.

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Post #480158  Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:35 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
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Pogba no way.

I thought Pogba was very good.

The biggest farce is Ronaldo being awarded the top scorer ahead of Schick on the basis that he also had an assist. Schick scored all 5 of his goals from play whereas Ronaldo had two penalties. It should have been shared.

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Post #480159  Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:21 am 
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People have observed that in the new training videos and pictures the club released Emile Smith Rowe has his shirt number obscured in them all and another player was wearing 32. Also in one of the videos in the background you can make out his foot in front of a camera being video suggesting he’s being green-screened for some kind of announcement

Basically a new contract for Emile Smith Rowe and a new shirt number likely 8 or 11


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Post #480160  Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:07 am 
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I see that Arsenal are playing this evening. Not much of a close season was it? :laughing7:

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