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Post #514801  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Another plus point for Emi Martinez is he's considered as HG. He's been very good so far and I think we can afford to keep both for another season at least to see whether EM can maintain his form or do a Manninger.

Actually that’s a very good point you make about Manninger’s start. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn’t Almunia start off brightly? I might be wrong, but there’s something in the back of my mind that he looked really good at first.

EDIT: Damn, here I am again talking the general issue of keeping or selling players. The only point I’ll make is that with Stan as the owner we might as well sell both Martinez and Leno and replace them with the worst keeper in the Barnet Sunday League for all the difference it’ll make. Imagine a smiley here!


Your tongue in cheek edit surely highlights where your owner blame goes too far. Put me between the sticks and 95% of shots on our goal go in and we get relegated. How does that make less difference than who owns the club. You’re right in that the ownership affects the club negatively, but I think you take it too far. If we signed the 11 best players in world football Stan couldn’t stop us winning things.

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Post #514802  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:39 am 
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Ash wrote:
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Actually that’s a very good point you make about Manninger’s start. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, but didn’t Almunia start off brightly? I might be wrong, but there’s something in the back of my mind that he looked really good at first.

EDIT: Damn, here I am again talking the general issue of keeping or selling players. The only point I’ll make is that with Stan as the owner we might as well sell both Martinez and Leno and replace them with the worst keeper in the Barnet Sunday League for all the difference it’ll make. Imagine a smiley here!

Your tongue in cheek edit surely highlights where your owner blame goes too far. Put me between the sticks and 95% of shots on our goal go in and we get relegated. How does that make less difference than who owns the club. You’re right in that the ownership affects the club negatively, but I think you take it too far. If we signed the 11 best players in world football Stan couldn’t stop us winning things.

With the smiley reference I was expecting everyone, including you, to realise that I wasn’t actually being serious with the comment about the Barnet Sunday League keeper. My tongue was so far in my cheek that with the smiley reference I’m stunned you couldn’t work that out. However, at a level appropriate to Arsenal’s sort of level with players, I don’t think who we sign or sell is as important as Stan’s ownership so I don’t accept I’m going too far about it.


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Post #514803  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:24 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...forgot about Guendouzi probable sale as well. I'm also thinking, do we need both Ceballos and Coutinho? If so, Ceballos off the bench but will he go for that? Can both play in the same midfield? Only if Partey is part of it in a 4-3-3 with Aubameyang, Willian and Pépé up top is my guess.

With Ceballos playing the deeper role I think him and Coutinho can play in the same midfield, my bigger concern is whether that is the midfield we want/need right now. I get that Coutinho brings creativity, but are we going to be a team that tries to play with a No.10 who doesn't have much actual central midfield responsibility? That won't work in this league.
More and more teams are ditching the classic No.10 as they tend not to work hard enough defensively, or the best 10's in the world who do work hard enough become more like No.8's (Like De Bruyne) and the team end up playing a 4-1-2-3 with the 2 being 2 players like De Bruyne if they are lucky enough to have them.
This is a move away from the 3 midfielders being categorised as defensive, box-to-box and attacking and expects a more all round midfielder in all 3 positions.
The notional defensive mid is now a deep lying play maker, taking the balls of CB, dropping in to defence if the CB split, supreme positionally and very good one touch. The 2 in front of him can drop deeper to link play but mostly move the ball from front to back with quick incisive passing or dribbling to beat the press, they also get up and support the attack and chip in with 10 goals a season.
If we want a midfield like that then none of our current players are good enough, and Willian and Coutinho probably aren't either.


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Post #514804  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:03 pm 
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Those two in midfield would be fine if we are playing a team where we expect to retain the lions share of possession but I think we'd be overrun against LFC, City and possibly one of the others.

It would be work well in most European matches as well.

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Post #514805  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:13 pm 
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Has Coutinho ever played as one of two central midfielders? If we're genuinely interested in him, I can't imagine Arteta playing him as anything other than the most attacking of three central midfielders, or on the left wing. Wouldn't be surprised to see Willian used centrally in that manner, with two more all-around midfielders behind him.


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Post #514806  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:21 pm 
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...another thing as well Rich, Xhaka is a starter. Arteta and before him Emery shockingly enough rates him to start (I know....I know ..lol). It's likely to be a Coutinho/Xhaka partnership. I'm not too confident of us defensively in the middle of the pitch. Coutinho reads the game well but I'd prefer him to have a ball winning DM as a partner, hence why I think getting Partey is paramount.

I'm surprised at all the rumors frankly. It seemed like it was going to be a quiet transfer period.

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Post #514807  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:23 pm 
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The Daily Mirror, naming the Evening Standard as their source, are reporting that Willian has already had his medical with Arsenal ahead of signing a three year deal worth £150k a week. For a player who is already 32, that sounds a big financial risk as it equates to a firm commitment of £23.4m (£150k x 52 = £7.8m x 3 = £23.4m).

Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360


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Post #514808  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360

Think this one is pretty much done. The money involved in the deal is quite significant for a 32-year old but I think one of the main things is that there is no transfer fee. So even if the total amount will be somewhere around 20-25 million, it will possibly not affect our transfer budget at all. We have a few position in need of strengthening, and it doesn't seem like we can afford to spend big on all of them, so this type of deal is probably a necessity sadly. Let's just hope he can keep up his form, he was excellent for Chelsea this season.


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Post #514809  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:34 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360

Think this one is pretty much done. The money involved in the deal is quite significant for a 32-year old but I think one of the main things is that there is no transfer fee. So even if the total amount will be somewhere around 20-25 million, it will possibly not affect our transfer budget at all. We have a few position in need of strengthening, and it doesn't seem like we can afford to spend big on all of them, so this type of deal is probably a necessity sadly. Let's just hope he can keep up his form, he was excellent for Chelsea this season.

I think Arteta will use him wisely and he should add some quality.


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Post #514810  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:07 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...another thing as well Rich, Xhaka is a starter. Arteta and before him Emery shockingly enough rates him to start (I know....I know ..lol). It's likely to be a Coutinho/Xhaka partnership. I'm not too confident of us defensively in the middle of the pitch. Coutinho reads the game well but I'd prefer him to have a ball winning DM as a partner, hence why I think getting Partey is paramount.

I'm surprised at all the rumors frankly. It seemed like it was going to be a quiet transfer period.

I can't see Coutinho (if he came) sitting in a midfield 2 with Xhaka! I can't see Coutinho starting in a 2 man midfield even with a reincarnation of Vieira+Keane combined! He's played all his career as a No.10 or off the left side. I agree Arteta sees Xhaka as an important player and he'll be a starter next year. Coutinho and Willian will both play much higher up the pitch.
I've said before, long term I think Arteta wants to play 1 holding player and 2 x No.8 types - much like Pep does at City. I also think Arteta wants (and needs eventually) to play a back 4. At the moment he doesn't have the players for any of that so must find a system that works whilst slowly building the team he wants for the formation he wants


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Post #514811  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Arteta won't get all the players he needs obviously. He'll see who he ends up with and try and make something out of it. My guess is he'll experiment with different formations based on who he has available as well as the competition. Problem with that is, the players have to keep learning. He may just stick with one system whether we have the players to maximise it or not and do what we can. That way, the players know the system even if they aren't able to be effective at times due to quality.

If he had his way, we'd look a bit more like City but that's a pipe dream right now and probably for the forseeable future.

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Post #514812  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:52 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
I think Arteta will use him wisely and he should add some quality.

Yeah I hope so. I really do rate Willian highly as a player, in fact I think he's been one of Chelsea's most underrated players for a couple of years now. His age is a concern though, but as long as he's motivated he should have a couple of good seasons left in him. One thing to note is that he worked under five different managers during his time at Chelsea (not counting Steve Holland) and they all seemed quite happy with him looking at his number of appearances. The number of matches he's played also suggest he's quite durable, though I'm sure we'll find to make him tear his ACL after a couple of games.


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Post #514813  Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm 
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So Stan the Man is going to do a bit of time along with many other colleagues in court on October 25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltod ... 9.amp.html

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Post #514814  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:46 am 
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He screws over his own home town and people may wonder why I have always said you don't want him as an owner.

He was never going to stay in St. Louis. The city jumped spent money trying to accommodate his demands, spending a considerable amount of money from a city that is struggling economically. Then he leaves. Knowing he was leaving all along. They could have used that time and resources in attracting a team.

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Post #514815  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:18 am 
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The rise and fall of Ronaldinho. I had a Brazilian coworker years ago and he would say that Brazilian footballers often end up broke. He said it was primarily because many grew up in the favelas with no idea of money management and spend big, don't save, are often easy to convince to enter into dodgy deals.

I saw the same often with American athletes. At one time (not sure if the stats are the same) but about 70% of NBA and NFL athletes were broke within 5 years of retirement.

Football is a sport of the masses globally. I don't know if the British players who grew up in council estates in east London, or Toxteth, Liverpool suffer the same faith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PoXhGOkh2A

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Post #514816  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:32 am 
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Seems Juve are open to sending a player our way in a deal for Lacazette, I have no idea if the CB is good or not but we need CBs not more attackers.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... l-22506059

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Post #514817  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:10 am 
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Bernard wrote:
The Daily Mirror, naming the Evening Standard as their source, are reporting that Willian has already had his medical with Arsenal ahead of signing a three year deal worth £150k a week. For a player who is already 32, that sounds a big financial risk as it equates to a firm commitment of £23.4m (£150k x 52 = £7.8m x 3 = £23.4m).

Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360


Hi Bernard,

I thought I read somewhere he is getting a £10m signing on fee. Whether that's true I don't know.


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Post #514818  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:23 am 
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Lets for a moment assume Lacazette is gone. Willilan is here, where does he play? Does Aubameyang go central up top and Willian plays left and Pépé on the right?

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Post #514819  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:39 am 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
The Daily Mirror, naming the Evening Standard as their source, are reporting that Willian has already had his medical with Arsenal ahead of signing a three year deal worth £150k a week. For a player who is already 32, that sounds a big financial risk as it equates to a firm commitment of £23.4m (£150k x 52 = £7.8m x 3 = £23.4m).

Not the most reliable of sources, but with Willian already confirming that he’s leaving Chelsea there is so much about him joining Arsenal that I’m assuming there must be something in it. Okay, there’s no transfer fee involved but for a player that already has to be past his peak (at 32 already that is inevitable), it sounds a big financial commitment that the club presumably won’t be able to get out of. Arsenal is arguably becoming a retirement home for former Chelsea players.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... id=2184360

Hi Bernard,

I thought I read somewhere he is getting a £10m signing on fee. Whether that's true I don't know.

Morning socrates. If it is true about the £10m signing on fee and he does get £150k a week for three years, that makes it a £33.4m investment. For somebody who is now 32, and as I said that inevitably means already past his best (a best he’ll leave further behind as the three year contract progresses), that represents a very heavy commitment on a player of his age with therefore little, or more likely no resale value in the transfer market.


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Post #514820  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:41 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Morning socrates. If it is true about the £10m signing on fee and he does get £150k a week for three years, that makes it a £33.4m investment.

I think he'll be on a three-year contract worth £100,000-a-week.


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Post #514821  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:22 am 
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warrior wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Morning socrates. If it is true about the £10m signing on fee and he does get £150k a week for three years, that makes it a £33.4m investment.

I think he'll be on a three-year contract worth £100,000-a-week.

All I went by was the Mirror and Standard’s claim that he’ll be on £150k a week. If he is and what socrates heard about him getting a £10m signing on fee is right, that makes it a £33.4m investment on a player who has already had his 32nd birthday.


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Post #514822  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:41 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
I think Arteta will use him wisely and he should add some quality.

Yeah I hope so. I really do rate Willian highly as a player, in fact I think he's been one of Chelsea's most underrated players for a couple of years now. His age is a concern though, but as long as he's motivated he should have a couple of good seasons left in him. One thing to note is that he worked under five different managers during his time at Chelsea (not counting Steve Holland) and they all seemed quite happy with him looking at his number of appearances. The number of matches he's played also suggest he's quite durable, though I'm sure we'll find to make him tear his ACL after a couple of games.

I think we do need to consider the injury history, general fitness and whether a player is showing signs of 'slowing down' rather than the age necessarily. I am not completely sold on spending what we're spending on Willian, but I think you'd struggle to find anyone in the world who can give us what he will on a lets say £10m signing on fee and £100k a week. Ryan Fraser would cost pretty much the same!
The issue for me is of balancing our ins and outs. We cant afford to spend lots of money on all our problem positions, equally we can't afford for all the areas we need signings to be teenagers with lots of potential and sell on value. If the balance is to buy older experienced players like Willian which allows us to buy younger more expensive players to fill CM and CB then it seems a sensible strategy.
The plan should be to improve the team year on year, we can't get to where we want to be in 1 transfer window but equally can't only add the pieces we really want for the long term as it would still leave gaps elsewhere in the squad.
If we judge transfers before a player kicks a ball then I feel we can only judge this one at the end of the transfer window.


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Post #514823  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:09 pm 
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Juventus to offer THREE different players for Arsenal ace as Reds eye shock Chelsea transfer

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/p ... 7cd469f3dc


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Post #514824  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:10 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
All I went by was the Mirror and Standard’s claim that he’ll be on £150k a week. If he is and what socrates heard about him getting a £10m signing on fee is right, that makes it a £33.4m investment on a player who has already had his 32nd birthday.

Yeah I think it's 100 - and an optional 4th year.


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Post #514825  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:15 pm 
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Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes



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Post #514826  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:30 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Bernard wrote:
All I went by was the Mirror and Standard’s claim that he’ll be on £150k a week. If he is and what socrates heard about him getting a £10m signing on fee is right, that makes it a £33.4m investment on a player who has already had his 32nd birthday.

Yeah I think it's 100 - and an optional 4th year.

The Mirror mentioned the optional fourth year but if it’s the club’s option would they take it up as he’ll the 35 then? Would he have left Chelsea for £100k at Arsenal, just for one more year? Chelsea must be very high payers.


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Post #514827  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:33 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes


Make it happen, Mikel! I loved this guy's work with Michael Prackson.

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Post #514828  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:42 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
warrior wrote:
Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes


Make it happen, Mikel! I loved this guy's work with Michael Prackson.

:happy11: :happy11: :happy11:

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Post #514829  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Darren wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
Make it happen, Mikel! I loved this guy's work with Michael Prackson.

:happy11: :happy11: :happy11:


Pépé's highlight video reel was equally impressive.


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Post #514830  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:49 pm 
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:42laughter:

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Post #514831  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:53 pm 
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Andy Green wrote:
Darren wrote:
:happy11: :happy11: :happy11:


Pépé's highlight video reel was equally impressive.

Pepes a good player. We just paid too much for him


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Post #514832  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:54 pm 
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The one sad thing about this period in Arsenal is that any other owner with some knowledge and love for the sport would see the big upside potential in Arteta and seize the moment. He would do all he can to get us the money and players needed. We really shouldn't have been anywhere close to an FA cup judging by our form.

We have some pretty good players and if we sort out a few positions (CB, DM) we would be competitive. Unfortunately we don't have such an owner. He has left people in charge who presumably know what they are doing but if or when they come to him and say 'We are on the cusp on big things, we need x amount of pounds to get it done". Stan will only focus on the money and if he can afford it. The potential will be lost on him. He's not interested in trophies per se. Yes, every owner would like it but given the choice of Arsenal winning the league cup for example or the Rams going into the playoffs...I'd be interested to know which one he'd choose. It wouldn't be a cert.

My guess is the best way to entice him to come off funds is to show the potential revenue from the CL and that he'll get it back on the back end.

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Post #514833  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:10 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Andy Green wrote:

Pépé's highlight video reel was equally impressive.

Pepes a good player. We just paid too much for him


Agree he's a good player but he was so exasperating at times last year...I'll chalk it up to first year acclimatisation....I hope he becomes a great player with us....those highlight reels can be deceptive


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Post #514834  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:54 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Juventus to offer THREE different players for Arsenal ace as Reds eye shock Chelsea transfer

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/p ... 7cd469f3dc

These player exchange deals are always engineered by the club wanting to buy. See how we've approached Atletico for Partey, we won't pay his £45m clause but will pay a bit of it and give them a player we don't want as well. It's all very much have your cake and eat it.

If Juve have a player that was already on our transfer target wishlist then we could talk about it - otherwise just get the money and buy the player you really want. You may be able to negotiate down but you're sacrificing it for the player you want.


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Post #514835  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Zed wrote:
So Stan the Man is going to do a bit of time along with many other colleagues in court on October 25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltod ... 9.amp.html

[Edit: Trial date is actually 25 Oct 2021, not this year]

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Post #514836  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:41 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Football transfer rumours: Arsenal plan swoop for Quincy Promes?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ncy-promes


Don't forget Amadou Diawara, 23. Another midfielder. Still in talks.

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Post #514837  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:42 pm 
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Valencia's entire squad has been put up for sale as they try to balance the books from the covid fall out. Can't believe they will be the only team doing this. Ultimately the gap between those who need to tighten their belts and those who can sail through this unaffected is just going to get wider as richer clubs pick off the better players of weaker clubs at knock down rates.


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Post #514838  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Valencia's entire squad has been put up for sale as they try to balance the books from the covid fall out. Can't believe they will be the only team doing this. Ultimately the gap between those who need to tighten their belts and those who can sail through this unaffected is just going to get wider as richer clubs pick off the better players of weaker clubs at knock down rates.

Shame to see it happen to such an old, esteemed club. Remember their great side from the early 00s, right as my interest in football hit its peak. They had some cracking players in Pablo Aimar, Vicente, Ruben Baraja and David Albelda, and won the league a couple of times if I'm not mistaken.


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Post #514839  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Gutted for Atalanta.

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Post #514840  Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Rich wrote:
Valencia's entire squad has been put up for sale as they try to balance the books from the covid fall out. Can't believe they will be the only team doing this. Ultimately the gap between those who need to tighten their belts and those who can sail through this unaffected is just going to get wider as richer clubs pick off the better players of weaker clubs at knock down rates.

Shame to see it happen to such an old, esteemed club. Remember their great side from the early 00s, right as my interest in football hit its peak. They had some cracking players in Pablo Aimar, Vicente, Ruben Baraja and David Albelda, and won the league a couple of times if I'm not mistaken.

Have a slight soft spot for Valencia since theh beat us in1980.

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