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Post #514601  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:11 pm 
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Didn’t realise Willian is 32 next week. That transfer just makes absolutely no sense.


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Post #514602  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:40 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Didn’t realise Willian is 32 next week. That transfer just makes absolutely no sense.

None. He is not what we need to spend money on. The Luiz transfer had some logic to it after the Koscielny debacle. We are not short of wide attackers. Central midfield and centre back is where we need to invest.

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Post #514603  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:41 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Didn’t realise Willian is 32 next week. That transfer just makes absolutely no sense.


Hi TG,

I agree. I will be dumbfounded if we are offering him a 3 year deal.

Very good player but in the twilight of his career and not that good to merit such a deal.

If he was one of say one of 6 major signings then fair enough but if he's one of 3 then its hard to see any logic at all. I would much prefer to spend the money on a promising young talent.


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Post #514604  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:44 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
Rich wrote:
Agreed, It is far more than 'a few' we need. We need to have a 4 out of 5 success rate with our transfers over the next 2 or 3 windows. If you look through the squad and count the number of players who could be in a title winning squad and it isn't many, then count how many could be first 11 for a title winning team and its fewer still.
I'm worried there is a lot of expectation being put on Saliba's shoulders to suddenly fix our defence. He's 19, he will need time and patience.


And if Aubameyang leaves, that would be big loss for us. As talented as Martinelli is, don't think him or Nketiah is ready yet to be our main man upfront.

That's an optimistic way of putting it, Goonie. I don't think Nketiah is good enough to have a long term future at Arsenal. Martinelli is a different story but he is very young. There's no way he can replace Aubameyang at this stage of his career.

I actually think Aubameyang will stay.

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Post #514605  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:28 pm 
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dec wrote:
Goonie wrote:

And if Aubameyang leaves, that would be big loss for us. As talented as Martinelli is, don't think him or Nketiah is ready yet to be our main man upfront.

That's an optimistic way of putting it, Goonie. I don't think Nketiah is good enough to have a long term future at Arsenal. Martinelli is a different story but he is very young. There's no way he can replace Aubameyang at this stage of his career.

I actually think Aubameyang will stay.


I hope so. Unless we get crazy money for him and Arteta is allowed to reinvest. And not for someone like Willian. I'm thinking monster midfielder so we can dominate the middle of the pitch.


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Post #514606  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:10 pm 
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https://arseblog.com/2020/08/tactics-co ... th-fa-cup/

Good read on Arsenal's tactics. Some of the stills are pretty interesting and show things you miss in the game, but the inside positioning of AMN and the consistent holding of the width are very Pep-like ideas


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Post #514607  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:14 pm 
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socrates wrote:
If he was one of say one of 6 major signings then fair enough but if he's one of 3 then its hard to see any logic at all. I would much prefer to spend the money on a promising young talent.

I think that's where I stand. Willian as a bonus type signing is fine, but we know Arsenal can't make bonus type signings. A 3 year commitment to Willian would cost £30m and would return us £0m. The upside would be a certain degree of guarantee of performance and knowledge of the league, at least until his legs go. But I too would rather invest that same money in a young player at £20m fee and £65k a year wages which is the same £30m outlay for 3 years but you have an asset on your books at the end of it.


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Post #514608  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:18 pm 
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Must be weird for Saliba to watch his old club lose a cup final then immediately be sat watching his new one win one. The experience can’t hurt in feeling good about his move.

Talking of defenders even if all of ours were fit I have no idea who starts the first game of the season, I’m not even sure what formation we’re likely to be in. You’ve got to think Saliba will be bedded in slowly, Mari and Mustafi coming back from injuries. Do we buy another CB? And start them? In a few weeks time?

I think we might be looking at the cup final defensive line up for a substantial part of the beginning of next season.

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Post #514609  Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Man U reportedly close to signing Jadon Sancho for £110m. This emphasises the exact point I’ve made before about the super rich never needing to have to pay for or live with their mistakes in the market.

They signed Sanchez, at the time one the best players in the world in his position and committed £25m a year in salary to him. It completely blew up and Man U can not only afford to send Sanchez out on loan covering most of that salary, and now seemingly ship him off for a free two years before his contract is up then can cover it all up with a £110m signing.

Every other club must be perfect in the market, Man U can fail fail and fail again and still not feel the effect. Of course they will get it right eventually, they’re shopping at that end of the market where it’s impossible not to get it right eventually


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Post #514610  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:33 am 
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dec wrote:
None. He is not what we need to spend money on. The Luiz transfer had some logic to it after the Koscielny debacle. We are not short of wide attackers. Central midfield and centre back is where we need to invest.

Isn't that it though? We need to invest in midfield and defense, so we're going for players in creative positions that doesn't affect our transfer budget and will only cost us wages. If this allows us to spend more money on a centre back and central midfielder I'm all for it, Willian is a really good player coming off one of his best seasons for Chelsea.


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Post #514611  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:41 am 
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Looks like the Willian deal is going to be done. Ornstein reporting it is between Arsenal and 1 other club. 3 year deal. I wonder how hard Arsenal pushed the wages? For example Luiz was given his 1 year extension but on reduced wages. Maybe a bit different for a guy signing on a free.

I think signing Willian is one of those strange transfers that can potentially only be judged as a good move or poor move based on what other business we do this summer. If we get the top class CB and top class midfielder we need and the Willian £0 transfer fee means we can do those bigger purchases in key areas then it's worth it. But if Willian's wages mean that we're having to go cheap on those key positions again then it isnt a move we should be making.

The age thing is interesting, he's the same age as Aubumeyang, seems like he keeps himself in very good nick. According to transfermarket Willian has only missed 13 games due to injury since 2013!
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/willian ... eler/52769

If his agent wasn't who he is the deal would sit more comfortably with me


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Post #514612  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:51 am 
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It wouldn't be the most exciting signing, but according to Ornstein it was Arteta who requested it. That settles it for me. We can't talk about how the club needs to back the manager and then complain when they try to sign a player Arteta wants just because we don't like the profile of said player.


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Post #514613  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:16 am 
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I'm not bothered by the Willian deal should it happen. We're only still at the first phase of the Arteta rebuild, we don't have big sums of money and when you see Jadon Sancho going for £110m - a fee we could never afford without a huge upturn in fortunes or a new owner - then the outlay for Willian is relatively small. He's a free and brings experience. It's not ideal or the ideal profile we need but where we are at this moment in time, I feel this represents our level right about now. He can do a job for us.

At this point, I have utter faith in Arteta. As Arseblog said on the Arsecast yesterday, both times Arteta joined the club as a player, and as a manager, the club was in a mess and both times he has represented a stabilising influence. Players have improved under him. Look at the turn around in Xhaka, Mustafi, Ceballos, Maitland-Niles. He also seems to have a little bit of steel about him too. I have real belief we have a really, really good manager.

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Post #514614  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:22 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
It wouldn't be the most exciting signing, but according to Ornstein it was Arteta who requested it. That settles it for me. We can't talk about how the club needs to back the manager and then complain when they try to sign a player Arteta wants just because we don't like the profile of said player.


Hi Haz,

If he's one of many incomings then fine. If not it seems a little strange.

If it was a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd year then I would see some logic in it. However, to give a 32 year old a 3 year deal on huge wages seems a little absurd notwithstanding he's a free transfer. He's a very good player but is he really what we need at this stage of our rebuild.

He will have no resale value at the end of 3 years so a long contract is hardly protecting our asset.

I understand your point about backing the manager and I fully understand that. However, he's given Luiz another year and signed Mari and Cédric, neither of whom look like worldbeaters, so I am waiting to be convinced by his signings.


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Post #514615  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:32 am 
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On the topic of signings, despite recent criticisms of our recruitment policy least summers signings have worked out pretty well.


Pépé.....not justified his price tag, which was overinflated, but he has done pretty well for his first season and looks like he could become an important player for us. Needs guidance but Arteta might just be the person to provide that.

Martinelli.....has surprised everyone and looks like he could be a serious player.

Tierney........after overcoming his injuries he looks a top prospect. Very grounded and you could see him at Arsenal for years to come.

Ceballos......initially looked lightweight but post lockdown he has probably been our best outfield player.

Luiz.......has done pretty much what is says on the tin. Some very good performances and some very indifferent ones. A mixed bag of a player but looks to be a great bloke who has helped improve team spirit.


Overall I would say the signings have been been pretty good despite our poor PL season.


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Post #514616  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:51 am 
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socrates wrote:
However, to give a 32 year old a 3 year deal on huge wages (I've heard 300k a week) seems a little absurd notwithstanding he's a free transfer. He's a very good player but is he really what we need at this stage of our rebuild.

He will have no resale value at the end of 3 years so a long contract is hardly protecting our asset.

Morning socrates. If you’re right and it is £300k a week for a 32 year old on a 3 year contract, which as we’ve found with Özil’s £350k a week represents a committed outlay that the club won’t be able to get out of, it amounts to £15.6m per year. That means a committed expenditure of £46.8m over the period of the contract. As a 32 year old, his age can only mean he is already past his peak, and will get further past it as each of the 3 seasons pass.

I realise we’re all in a good mood after the cup final and want to see positives. But if the figure you have heard is anything even remotely like the truth, the signing sounds a bit barmy to me. Especially as we already have Pépé and Saka who I reckon will develop into the first choice wide attacking midfielders.


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Post #514617  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:54 am 
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socrates wrote:
If he's one of many incomings then fine. If not it seems a little strange.

Certainly agree with that, only making one signing wouldn't be acceptable at all. And I do take the point that a three year contract is a little too long at this stage of Willian's career, although I don't imagine that extra year will cripple us too much if he doesn't perform well that last season.

I guess the overall point for me is that I've been hugely impressed by Arteta early on, with everything from his tactics and man management, to the way he talks about the club, and what he's trying to build. The players clearly love playing for him, and so I think he's earned the right to make these kinds of deicsions and we'll just have to see how it shakes out.


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Post #514618  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:55 am 
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Bernard wrote:
socrates wrote:
However, to give a 32 year old a 3 year deal on huge wages (I've heard 300k a week) seems a little absurd notwithstanding he's a free transfer. He's a very good player but is he really what we need at this stage of our rebuild.

He will have no resale value at the end of 3 years so a long contract is hardly protecting our asset.

Morning socrates. If you’re right and it is £300k a week for a 32 year old on a 3 year contract, which as we’ve found with Özil’s £350k a week represents a committed outlay that the club won’t be able to get out of, it amounts to £15.6m per year. That means a committed expenditure of £46.8m over the period of the contract. As a 32 year old, his age can only mean he is already past his peak, and will get further past it as each of the 3 seasons pass.

I realise we’re all in a good mood after the cup final and want to see positives. But if the figure you have heard is anything even remotely like the truth, the signing sounds a bit barmy to me. Especially as we already have Pépé and Saka who I reckon will develop into the first choice wide attacking midfielders.


Hi Bernard,

I removed the 300k a week bit because on reflection it seems ridiculous, that would be more than we are offering Aubameyang. Can't be true, can it.


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Post #514619  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:19 am 
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No way we're paying Willian £300k per week.

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Post #514620  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:23 am 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Morning socrates. If you’re right and it is £300k a week for a 32 year old on a 3 year contract, which as we’ve found with Özil’s £350k a week represents a committed outlay that the club won’t be able to get out of, it amounts to £15.6m per year. That means a committed expenditure of £46.8m over the period of the contract. As a 32 year old, his age can only mean he is already past his peak, and will get further past it as each of the 3 seasons pass.

I realise we’re all in a good mood after the cup final and want to see positives. But if the figure you have heard is anything even remotely like the truth, the signing sounds a bit barmy to me. Especially as we already have Pépé and Saka who I reckon will develop into the first choice wide attacking midfielders.

Hi Bernard,

I removed the 300k a week bit because on reflection it seems ridiculous, that would be more than we are offering Aubameyang. Can't be true, can it.

Hi socrates. I started my post from your original so didn’t see you had removed the £300k. I would certainly hope the £300k can’t be true. But my other point on this issue remains. If Saka and Pépé will become our first choice wide attacking players, how much do we need a 32 year old Willian on high wages (even if it isn’t £300k a week) for 3 years? Especially if Smith Rowe is half as good as others appear to suggest (even though apart from one pretty good game I’m yet to see it myself).


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Post #514621  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:28 am 
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socrates wrote:
Very good player but in the twilight of his career and not that good to merit such a deal.

But that's what they said about me though.


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Post #514622  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:58 am 
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Willian requested by Arteta huh? Interesting. He is good friends with Luiz, still a very good player and a model pro. Would be a good mentor to Martinelli and the other young players I guess.


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Post #514623  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:00 pm 
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Darren wrote:
No way we're paying Willian £300k per week.

Not with Özil still milking the club for £350k a week for one more year. Once bitten, twice keep the money in the bank surely. Or offer Willian half that. Which is still very good money for a 31 (nearly 32?) year old.


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Post #514624  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:09 pm 
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tomc wrote:
Darren wrote:
No way we're paying Willian £300k per week.

Not with Özil still milking the club for £350k a week for one more year. Once bitten, twice keep the money in the bank surely. Or offer Willian half that. Which is still very good money for a 31 (nearly 32?) year old.


Yes surely it’s as or more attractive to Willian than to Arsenal, gets to stay in London where he’s presumably built a life for himself over the 8? years he’s been at Chelsea, gets the wage boost from being a free transfer. Gets to link up with Luiz and if he’s been personally requested by Arteta. Who’re the other club I wonder? It’s spurs isn’t it...

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Post #514625  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Ash wrote:
tomc wrote:
Not with Özil still milking the club for £350k a week for one more year. Once bitten, twice keep the money in the bank surely. Or offer Willian half that. Which is still very good money for a 31 (nearly 32?) year old.


Yes surely it’s as or more attractive to Willian than to Arsenal, gets to stay in London where he’s presumably built a life for himself over the 8? years he’s been at Chelsea, gets the wage boost from being a free transfer. Gets to link up with Luiz and if he’s been personally requested by Arteta. Who’re the other club I wonder? It’s spurs isn’t it...

Ornstein mentioned Chelsea, Barcelona and Miami as three others.



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Post #514626  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:22 pm 
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I agree with Haz - if it's what Arteta wants, give it to him. We have plenty of youth in the squad and Willian, assuming he's still in good nick (which he appears to be) adds quality and experience.


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Post #514627  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:37 pm 
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Willian's weekly wages at Chelsea were £120K, according to the Chelsealatestnews website. Kepa/Kante currently highest paid at £150K a week. Chelsea 2020 wage bill stands at £98M.
Can't see Willian on £300K a week unless it's cause he didn't cost anything. And yes, Spurs were interested, yet Mour stayed quiet.

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Post #514628  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Willian's weekly wages at Chelsea were £120K, according to the Chelsealatestnews website. Kepa/Kante currently highest paid at £150K a week. Chelsea 2020 wage bill stands at £98M.
Can't see Willian on £300K a week unless it's cause he didn't cost anything. And yes, Spurs were interested, yet Mour stayed quiet.


I highly doubt those wage figures. Jorginho is on less than 120k a week? After being bought at great expense recently as Sarri’s key signing? There’s a load of horseshit that goes along with these published lists and always has done as far as I can see. Like Arsenal including bonuses and other clubs not doing so, that makes it meaningless doesn’t it?? Also including and not including agents fees in transfers. Murky stuff.

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Post #514629  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Willian is a quandary. Can he go 90 minutes any longer? He's a game changer though. He can do for us what Giroud did for us off the bench and is doing for Chelsea now off the bench, come up with that goal in a game that gets you the points.

If he is not a week in, week out starter, will he stand for starting sometimes and coming off the bench other times? And his need for 3 years. If we get him and can get 2 good years out of him and in that time get back to top 4 at least and on the way to challenging, then his 3rd season can be written off. By then, we'd have gotten (presumably) other good players in as we are on the up.

That's all a big if. If we can keep Aubameyang, we won't need him but if we do both, well, things get interesting. We desperately need either a CB or a DM. I hope the long rumored deal for Partey is as close to getting done as the rumors suggest. He's young and talented, like Saliba and we have nice group of young players (Saka and others) that we can build on. Some maturity is needed to lead them for those uber big games.

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Post #514630  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Some rumblings in France that we're getting close to signing brilliantly named Brazilian centre back Gabriel dos Santos Magalhães from Lille. 22 years old, 6ft3 and supposedly very comfortable on the ball. Haven't seen him play, but seems like a good profile for us.


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Post #514631  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:49 pm 
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I reckon Lacazette will go while he still has value.

I think MA fancies Eddie Nketiah to play the same chasing / harrying / poaching role. I wouldn't argue too hard against that decision.


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Post #514632  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:02 pm 
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DHD wrote:
I reckon Lacazette will go while he still has value.

I think MA fancies Eddie Nketiah to play the same chasing / harrying / poaching role. I wouldn't argue too hard against that decision.


The chasing part of it and the energy definitely, his finishing is highly regarded and I’m hopeful that will pick up with confidence and more chances, It would be his link up play that I’d question him being first choice in that position.

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Post #514633  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:41 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Zed wrote:
Willian's weekly wages at Chelsea were £120K, according to the Chelsealatestnews website. Kepa/Kante currently highest paid at £150K a week. Chelsea 2020 wage bill stands at £98M.
Can't see Willian on £300K a week unless it's cause he didn't cost anything. And yes, Spurs were interested, yet Mour stayed quiet.


I highly doubt those wage figures. Jorginho is on less than 120k a week? After being bought at great expense recently as Sarri’s key signing? There’s a load of horseshit that goes along with these published lists and always has done as far as I can see. Like Arsenal including bonuses and other clubs not doing so, that makes it meaningless doesn’t it?? Also including and not including agents fees in transfers. Murky stuff.

It will be image rights - Arsenal include them in wages, most of the other clubs in this country don’t

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Post #514634  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:42 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Willian is a quandary. Can he go 90 minutes any longer? He's a game changer though. He can do for us what Giroud did for us off the bench and is doing for Chelsea now off the bench, come up with that goal in a game that gets you the points.


Willian played 90 minutes 21 times in the league and was subbed off 8 times in the 29 starts he made. I’d wager that is as good a 90 minute ratio of any winger at a top 6 club. Wingers being one of the most substituted players.

I posted a link to his stats on injuries before, one thing we don’t need to worry about is Willian’s fitness or injury record, he’s kept himself in top condition at 31. Similar to Aubameyang who barely misses a game and plays the 90 very often


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Post #514635  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:46 pm 
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If Daz is out there watching nervously in his Brentford shirt ...good luck
Another London derby next year no matter what


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Post #514636  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:00 pm 
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DHD wrote:
I reckon Lacazette will go while he still has value.

I think MA fancies Eddie Nketiah to play the same chasing / harrying / poaching role. I wouldn't argue too hard against that decision.


I’m not sure. I can’t see Arteta going into a new season with just Nketiah as his central striking role. If you look at firmino he has way more technical ability and excels at link up play. Nketiah seems to be a different type who wants to exist in and around the 6 yard box moving to receive the final ball. It would be such a massive leap of faith. How many great goals has he scored for us, he’s a real novice.

Nketiah isn’t scoring that goal against spurs Lacazette did. Lacazette might go but to go into a new season with Nketiah as first choice striker would be ridiculous


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Post #514637  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:35 pm 
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Thanks Rich,

Willian and Aubameyang are the same age. If Aubameyang says he wants a 3 year contract to stay, do we uphold the same criteria some on here applying to Willian?

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Post #514638  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:17 pm 
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Andy Green wrote:
If Daz is out there watching nervously in his Brentford shirt ...good luck
Another London derby next year no matter what

For me, Effing brilliant. Fulham won 0-1 and they’ve always been my second favourite London club. Have family who support them. I’m so pleased. Fulham are miles below Bayern and Rangers in the correct order of my favourite clubs. But they are fourth following Arsenal, Bayern and Rangers.


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Post #514639  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:02 am
Posts: 1747
Location: Liverpool/Caernarfon

Advice please from those that buy the shirts.

I’m getting a shirt for my nephew’s birthday, and instead of the usual bog standard £60 odd quid one, as he’s on a special birthday I’m wondering if it’s worth getting him the £100 odd quid one. (Especially given the 10% discount)

Is there a discernible difference in quality or fit?

Cheers

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Gorau chwarae cyd chwarae


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Post #514640  Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 8187

john1 wrote:
Advice please from those that buy the shirts.

I’m getting a shirt for my nephew’s birthday, and instead of the usual bog standard £60 odd quid one, as he’s on a special birthday I’m wondering if it’s worth getting him the £100 odd quid one. (Especially given the 10% discount)

Is there a discernible difference in quality or fit?

Cheers

Sorry mate, I’ve. no idea. I’ve bought a few home shirts and got one away over the years. But beyond long or short sleeves that is as far as it goes for me.


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