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Post #513561  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:32 pm 
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john1 wrote:
DHD wrote:

The Ref saw both challenges. He gave nothing for Vardy's and a yellow for Nketiah's. VAR than chose to get involved and Nketiah's was eventually elevated to Serious Foul Play - red card and a 3-match ban - because whilst there was no injury, it was a potentially dangerous tackle.

I would suggest there's clear a argument that Vardy's was much more serious foul play. The more I see those few frames, the clearer Vardy's intent becomes and the worse it looks. It was a downright vicious assault. What might have been the outcome if VAR had replayed it 50 times in the slowest of motion from every conceivable angle?

It wasn't a POTENTIALLY dangerous tackle - it WAS dangerous. His challenge resulted in an actual injury that could have been much worse than it was.


Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

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Post #513562  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:03 pm 
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dec wrote:
john1 wrote:

Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

When VAR was bought in I thought the tag line was for it to correct clear and obvious errors. It obviously has done that many times and everyone is pretty happy with that - a case in point would be Aubameyang's goal at Man U which was at least 4 yards onside being over turn. But as you say, this constant debate over hairline offsides is nonsense. One of the first ones this season was Sterling given offside by I think it was something like 4-5cm. Great that the technology is capable but we're stil relying on a human to stop the tape at the exact moment the ball was played. The foot is in contact with the ball for more than a nano-second so it is impossible to judge. On that Sterling goal they worked out that if you worked out the time delay between each frame of tape against the speed Sterling was running at the time and an allowance for not knowing exactly when the ball has left the assisters foot there was a huge margin for error which could have easily meant Sterling was actually onside by a foot rather than offside by a few cm. And that's just offside.


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Post #513563  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:06 pm 
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I think its imperative we have some form of European football next season.
Europa it looks like is our best bet.
For 'prestige ' for finance reasons and a chance for the whole squad to get games and a back door route to get into the champions league.
Suffice to say not happy to see f####king sheff utd just get a late winner v wolves.
A draw in that game would have been a better result for us.
A win yesterday would have put us above wolves on goal difference but still within touching distance 2 points behind them.
6th is definitely a possibility where wolves lie now.
We need to get something against spurs and liverpool before ending with 2 winnable games v villa and Watford.
Sheff utd and wolves have tricky games to come as well.
So top 7 is possible.
Top 8 if city ban is upheld.
5th unfortunately has gone.


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Post #513564  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:07 pm 
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Cant forget bloody spurs either


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Post #513565  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:08 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Your idea that Nelson, Willock, Smith Rowe, Nketiah and Maitland-Niles could together bring in £100m seems a reasonable estimate. However, with the squad as it is, how many can be sold? All teams need back up squad fillers and unless they can be replaced by others from the academy, Arsenal might need to keep them. Or at least some of them, even if it’s not all.

We almost certainly do need to keep them all.
I suppose if we manage to find a young player from abroad who we can buy for the same price we can sell a 'lesser' young academy talent from our squad then that's where the trades and upgrades can happen.
They're out there is you scout well and hard enough.


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Post #513566  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:36 pm 
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I said last night I could guarantee I could find a number of examples of similar but worse tackles as Nketiah and they would not be red cards, even with VAR reviews - some might not even be reviewed.

It took less than 24 hours.....check out this from Tarkowski!
https://twitter.com/leemarkjudges/statu ... 2841219072


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Post #513567  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:35 pm 
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Michael Oliver is ref Sunday, Paul Tierney on VAR. No Mike Dean anywhere this coming weekend.

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Post #513568  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:36 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

When VAR was bought in I thought the tag line was for it to correct clear and obvious errors. It obviously has done that many times and everyone is pretty happy with that - a case in point would be Aubameyang's goal at Man U which was at least 4 yards onside being over turn. But as you say, this constant debate over hairline offsides is nonsense. One of the first ones this season was Sterling given offside by I think it was something like 4-5cm. Great that the technology is capable but we're stil relying on a human to stop the tape at the exact moment the ball was played. The foot is in contact with the ball for more than a nano-second so it is impossible to judge. On that Sterling goal they worked out that if you worked out the time delay between each frame of tape against the speed Sterling was running at the time and an allowance for not knowing exactly when the ball has left the assisters foot there was a huge margin for error which could have easily meant Sterling was actually onside by a foot rather than offside by a few cm. And that's just offside.

I was all for VAR and as you say, it was supposed to correct obvious errors. If an incident has to be replayed over and over in slow motion from multiple angles, then it is still guesswork. So what we have now is a pretence of fairness to forgive poor officiating and add to the circus. It's a shitshow.

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Post #513569  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Michael Oliver is ref Sunday, Paul Tierney on VAR. No Mike Dean anywhere this coming weekend.


Is Paul related to our Kieran?


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Post #513570  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:50 am 
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Arsenal need to use that Tarkowski tackle last night as evidence in the Nketiah appeal they are making.


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Post #513571  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:18 am 
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Rich wrote:
Arsenal need to use that Tarkowski tackle last night as evidence in the Nketiah appeal they are making.

Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

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Post #513572  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:45 am 
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david.d wrote:
I think its imperative we have some form of European football next season.
.


Disagree. One year with no Mid Week European games helped Klopp and Liverpool immensely a few seasons back..

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Post #513573  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:21 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
david.d wrote:
I think its imperative we have some form of European football next season.
.


Disagree. One year with no Mid Week European games helped Klopp and Liverpool immensely a few seasons back..

You are right, Liverpool finished 8th with no European football and then got CL football next year with a 4th place finish and no distractions.
They balanced their summer transfer market by spending and receiving about £75m. That was mainly down to somehow getting £60m for Benteke, Ibe and Joe Allen. As much as they have bought well it is Liverpool's selling even more so that has got them where they are now


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Post #513574  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:27 am 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Arsenal need to use that Tarkowski tackle last night as evidence in the Nketiah appeal they are making.

Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

I would suggest it's a waste of time and an unnecessary distraction to even bother appealing. Although it's obviously a debatable point, there is a clear case for a red being appropriate and unfortunately for us that's what happened.


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Post #513575  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:54 am 
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bromley gooner wrote:
dec wrote:
Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

I would suggest it's a waste of time and an unnecessary distraction to even bother appealing. Although it's obviously a debatable point, there is a clear case for a red being appropriate and unfortunately for us that's what happened.

At the time I felt the red card was harsh. But seeing it again, I can see both sides of the argument. Moreover, the huge majority of the moans about Nketiah’s sending off seems to be coming from Arsenal fans, who will mostly be biased. Unless I’m mistaken, the views of allegedly unbiased pundits or reporters seem largely to be that the dismissal was justified. Like dec, I can easily see this leading to an extension of his ban for making a frivolous appeal.


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Post #513576  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:01 am 
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bromley gooner wrote:
dec wrote:
Can't see it doing any good. These are rarely overturned. I think the only possibility would be if the ref said he made a mistake and that won't happen.

The threat of an additional one match ban is another thing that annoys me. It's like the teacher in school giving extra homework for backchat.

I would suggest it's a waste of time and an unnecessary distraction to even bother appealing. Although it's obviously a debatable point, there is a clear case for a red being appropriate and unfortunately for us that's what happened.


I think I agree overall, we’re unlikely to overturn the decision, there could be value however in not being a soft touch. Like you might not stop the bully taking your lunch money but you make it the hardest £2.50 they’ve ever got and next time maybe they think twice. We’ve absolutely got something to complain about given the inconsistency in this decision compared to across the board, the Tarkowski tackle came in a narrow win for Burnley where they literally leapfrogged us into 7th place. High stakes for us. With the tackles per yellow card starts for and against you’ve stated before and the last last man tackles that only Luiz gets sent off for we’ve got an argument that needs to be heard based on hard statistics and just maybe referees think twice before they shaft us on the first tackle.

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Post #513577  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:58 pm 
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We're rumoured to be after Malang Sarr, he's just left Nice on a free transfer. Left footed CB, only 21, over 100 appearances in the French Ligue 1.
As rumours go that sounds pretty believable in the current climate


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Post #513578  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:48 pm 
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Thought Ndombeles tackle was worse than Eddies. Yellow only


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Post #513579  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Andy Green wrote:
Thought Ndombeles tackle was worse than Eddies. Yellow only

I thought exactly the same. These forceful sliding lunges only ever get yellows though - as long as the studs aren't half way up the leg. But in terms of the force of that sort of tackle vs what Nketiah did they're incomparable. As soon as you leave your feet then you are not in control of your body or your momentum. Reminded me of the shocker that Creswell put in on Pépé at West Ham's ground this season. No mention because it is juts seen as a hard old fashioned english league tackle


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Post #513580  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Real Madrid have transferred Luka Jovic. Bought him for £60m, only 2 goals in 25 games, but was flying for Frankfurt the year before. I'm sure there will be other suitors but I wonder if we sold Lacazette for example that it might be worth a gamble to bring him on loan for a year considering the budget we're operating under


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Post #513581  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Spurs failed to have a single shot on target at Bournemouth. They are really awful at the moment, we need to beat them on Sunday, no better chance.
If Arteta wanted to be really bold he could put Tierney in the left side of the back 3, have Saka at left-wing back and play a front 3 of Aubameyang/Lacazette/Pépé.
You'd have to thin Pépé comes back in the side after missing the last 2 games. No need to change Xhaka/Ceballos in the middle


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Post #513582  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:26 pm 
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During the glory days when we went years without losing to sperz in the league, I was nervous about each derby because I feared that game would end the streak.

Since then and they were beating us, often regularly so, now I'm not as nervous about the game. I still hate losing to them. You never get used to it or accept it but I'm not as nervous because we are not the same Arsenal.

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Post #513583  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:41 pm 
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My apologies for falling asleep at the wheel for so long. :angel4:

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Post #513584  Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:42 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
Zed wrote:
Michael Oliver is ref Sunday, Paul Tierney on VAR. No Mike Dean anywhere this coming weekend.


Is Paul related to our Kieran?

Hee hee

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Post #513585  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:18 am 
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:1cry:
Zed wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Is Paul related to our Kieran?

Hee hee

If he was, I wonder if he’d be given Arsenal games to officiate, either on the pitch or VAR? My guess would be that no, he wouldn’t.


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Post #513586  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:54 am 
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Rich wrote:
We're rumoured to be after Malang Sarr, he's just left Nice on a free transfer. Left footed CB, only 21, over 100 appearances in the French Ligue 1.
As rumours go that sounds pretty believable in the current climate


Why is he a free agent at 21?

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Post #513587  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
Rich wrote:
We're rumoured to be after Malang Sarr, he's just left Nice on a free transfer. Left footed CB, only 21, over 100 appearances in the French Ligue 1.
As rumours go that sounds pretty believable in the current climate

Why is he a free agent at 21?

The obvious possibilities appear to be as follows. First, that he ran his contract down to leave on a free despite the club’s desire to keep him. Secondly, the club paid up his contract to get him off their books. Thirdly, the club didn’t offer him an extension to his last deal so were presumably willing to let him leave for nothing at the end of it.

To me, the first looks the most likely option.


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Post #513588  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:56 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
Why is he a free agent at 21?

The obvious possibilities appear to be as follows. First, that he ran his contract down to leave on a free despite the club’s desire to keep him. Secondly, the club paid up his contract to get him off their books. Thirdly, the club didn’t offer him an extension to his last deal so were presumably willing to let him leave for nothing at the end of it.

To me, the first looks the most likely option.

Yep, Seems he ran it down. He's played 19 out of 28 games for Nice this season, including the last game before the league shut down so it doesn't look like Nice were trying to get rid of him. Nice were 5th in the league at the time of shut down. Sarr has represented every national French age group but hasn't yet appeared for the national team.
If you can sell Sokratis for £10m and replace him with someone younger and more talented for free then it seems a sensible move.
I just feel that this summer transfers are going to be few and far between, but prices will have been driven down. Financial Fair Play rules are being relaxed for this summer only because of Coronavirus - there is a real opportunity to steal a march on some clubs if Arsenal could or were willing to make that investment.
So we could go for Sarr, 21, promising back up. Or we could go for Upamecano for £30m (ish), 21 one of the best young CB in germany. I say £30m because they were talking double that a year ago but he only has 1 year left on his deal and prices should come down due to a static market


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Post #513589  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:12 am 
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Rich wrote:
Real Madrid have transferred Luka Jovic. Bought him for £60m, only 2 goals in 25 games, but was flying for Frankfurt the year before. I'm sure there will be other suitors but I wonder if we sold Lacazette for example that it might be worth a gamble to bring him on loan for a year considering the budget we're operating under


There are stories of off-field problems about him?


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Post #513590  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:15 am 
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Rich wrote:
We're rumoured to be after Malang Sarr, he's just left Nice on a free transfer. Left footed CB, only 21, over 100 appearances in the French Ligue 1.
As rumours go that sounds pretty believable in the current climate


The new Sol Campbell? Seems like our Greek defenders are out of favour and may not be with us next season.


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Post #513591  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:21 am 
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Bernard wrote:
:1cry:
Zed wrote:
Hee hee

If he was, I wonder if he’d be given Arsenal games to officiate, either on the pitch or VAR? My guess would be that no, he wouldn’t.

Paul Tierney is on VAR for Spurs match. He's also the step father of pro rugby player Lewis Tierney who plays for Catalans Dragons in the Super League.
Just a bit of trivia here.

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Post #513592  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am 
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Looks like we appealed Eddie’s Red but it was upheld with no penalty added. Hope they pointed out the ongoing inconsistency, but probably a waste of time. If Lacazette can step up we might not miss him too much, but his energy and sharpness have been such a bonus.

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Post #513593  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:44 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Looks like we appealed Eddie’s Red but it was upheld with no penalty added. Hope they pointed out the ongoing inconsistency, but probably a waste of time. If Lacazette can step up we might not miss him too much, but his energy and sharpness have been such a bonus.

Sorry to be negative about him but I doubt we’ll miss Nketiah at all. He’s a decent enough prospect but at this stage of his career, I think he falls short of the level he’d have to be for us to miss him.


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Post #513594  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Reading some rumours that City are going to get their European ban overturned. We could talk about that for hours because you don't have to be a genius to understand what the basic principle of FFP is and what it is trying to stop and see what City are able to spend and it doesn't add up.....anyway, if they do get away with it it means Europa League places will only be for 5th, 6th and 7th (7th being for us only as the FA Cup winners spot will go to 7th - so due to the other semi finalists we'll get two bites at the cherry so to speak)
6th wolves 52
7th Sheff utd 51
8th Arsenal 50
9th spurs 49
10th Burnley 49

I won't write all the fixtures out but on a very (very) broad basis each team has 2 easy and 2 hard fixtures left. If we want 7th of better we need to beat Spurs this weekend.

I can see us winning our last two games but can only see a draw at best v Liverpool. Not sure 7-8 points would be enough, needs to be 9-10 points


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Post #513595  Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:32 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Ash wrote:
Looks like we appealed Eddie’s Red but it was upheld with no penalty added. Hope they pointed out the ongoing inconsistency, but probably a waste of time. If Lacazette can step up we might not miss him too much, but his energy and sharpness have been such a bonus.

Sorry to be negative about him but I doubt we’ll miss Nketiah at all. He’s a decent enough prospect but at this stage of his career, I think he falls short of the level he’d have to be for us to miss him.


Fair enough. I don’t really see that at all, seeing as he’s scored an opening goal for us, run hard and closed down defenders. I’d agree he looks to not be destined for the kind of quality that say Ian Wright had, as a maybe similar style comparison, but he’s got the right attitude and will certainly add something. I remember thinking for Harry Kane looked as average as you like before he proved otherwise. I think not being able to bring him on for the last 15 minutes at least for an ineffectual Lacazette for games against Tottenham, Liverpool AND Man City is a big blow to us tbh.

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