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Post #509401  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:13 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Hillier played 143 games, Selley played 60, Jensen played 138 games and Morrow played 85 games. Sadly, enough in the same midfield to see them as our worst midfield. Our present one simply doesn’t compare.

But they didn’t always play together. That’s the point. How many games did we play that 4 together. I bet it was less than 4 matches.

I bet it was a lot more than four. Feel free to do the research on your guesswork. If you do I’ll show the respect to check it.


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Post #509402  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:16 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
But they didn’t always play together. That’s the point. How many games did we play that 4 together. I bet it was less than 4 matches.

I bet it was a lot more than four. Feel free to do the research on your guesswork. If you do I’ll show the respect to check it.

Actually I bet it’s less.

In the European final only 2 played and that was because Jensen was suspended


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Post #509403  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:20 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I reckon any decent offer would get accepted yes.

Oh and the captain thing is nonsense as the cleaner gets offered the captaincy these days.

He’s *%^@ and Arteta knows he’s *%^@

He’s come from city where they had De Bruyne and silva tearing teams apart. Believe me he knows Xhaka ain’t up to it. (Which he clearly *%^@*** isn’t ) :laughing7:

Many players captain clubs in one off games. But Xhaka is the captain of his national side and has been made Arsenal’s club captain. You watch him and he shows leadership qualities.

Everything Arteta has said suggests he rates him, whatever you want to think. Like all his other managers. Arteta knows we don’t have De Bruyne and Silva so him coming from there seems irrelevant to me.


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Post #509404  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:23 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I reckon any decent offer would get accepted yes.

Oh and the captain thing is nonsense as the cleaner gets offered the captaincy these days.

He’s *%^@ and Arteta knows he’s *%^@

He’s come from city where they had De Bruyne and silva tearing teams apart. Believe me he knows Xhaka ain’t up to it. (Which he clearly *%^@*** isn’t ) :laughing7:

Many players captain clubs in one off games. But Xhaka is the captain of his national side and has been made Arsenal’s club captain. You watch him and he shows leadership qualities.

Everything Arteta has said suggests he rates him, whatever you want to think. Like all his other managers. Arteta knows we don’t have De Bruyne and Silva so him coming from there seems irrelevant to me.


It’s an act. Do you also think he rates Mustafi ? He plays him too.

They have to endure these legacy problems.

Xhakas competition is a young kid from the French second division and we have no money. The moment a decent offer comes in he’s gone.

There’s reasons Sheffield United are above us in the league. Parkerknoll is right


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Post #509405  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:26 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I bet it was a lot more than four. Feel free to do the research on your guesswork. If you do I’ll show the respect to check it.

Actually I bet it’s less.

In the European final only 2 played and that was because Jensen was suspended

Go and prove it then. Look the teams up for individual games because looking at the totals they all played while at the club around the same time suggests you’re hopelessly wrong. If you do I’ll show the respect of checking your figures.


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Post #509406  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:29 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Actually I bet it’s less.

In the European final only 2 played and that was because Jensen was suspended

Go and prove it then. Look the teams up for individual games because looking at the totals they all played while at the club around the same time suggests you’re hopelessly wrong. If you do I’ll show the respect of checking your figures.


How much spare time do you think I have.

I know I’m right though. They are also 4 central players. Didn’t happen. Make believe on your part


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Post #509407  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:33 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I reckon any decent offer would get accepted yes.

Oh and the captain thing is nonsense as the cleaner gets offered the captaincy these days.

He’s *%^@ and Arteta knows he’s *%^@

He’s come from city where they had De Bruyne and silva tearing teams apart. Believe me he knows Xhaka ain’t up to it. (Which he clearly *%^@*** isn’t ) :laughing7:

Many players captain clubs in one off games. But Xhaka is the captain of his national side and has been made Arsenal’s club captain. You watch him and he shows leadership qualities.

Everything Arteta has said suggests he rates him, whatever you want to think. Like all his other managers. Arteta knows we don’t have De Bruyne and Silva so him coming from there seems irrelevant to me.


Hi Bernard,

I would hope that Arteta does not rate him as anything more than an average PL midfielder, because realistically that's all he is. His lack of mobility around the pitch coupled with his inability to tackle cleanly, without pulling the man back or tripping him, means he will never sit at the top table of PL midfielders in my opinion. The fact that Arteta picks him every week is more a reflection of the inadequacies of the rest of our midfielders, I would suggest, than any huge endorsement of Xhaka's qualities.

If we could get back anything like what we paid for him I'd sell him in a heartbeat.


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Post #509408  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:37 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
It’s an act. Do you also think he rates Mustafi ? He plays him too.

They have to endure these legacy problems.

Xhakas competition is a young kid from the French second division and we have no money. The moment a decent offer comes in he’s gone.

There’s reasons Sheffield United are above us in the league. Parkerknoll is right

I don’t think it is an act. I presume Arteta doesn’t see Xhaka as a world beater and would be happy to see him sold for a good price. But he appears to rate him and I don’t think it’s remotely guaranteed he’ll be sold, even though I personally hope he is. Mustafi is prone to bad errors but I have little doubt Arteta would see your views on him as ridiculous.


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Post #509409  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:41 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
How much spare time do you think I have.

I know I’m right though. They are also 4 central players. Didn’t happen. Make believe on your part

Well you have enough time to post bollocks on this forum. I bet they did play together more often than you. If you can’t prove it, don’t claim it.


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Post #509410  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:44 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
How much spare time do you think I have.

I know I’m right though. They are also 4 central players. Didn’t happen. Make believe on your part

Well you have enough time to post bollocks on this forum. I bet they did play together more often than you. If you can’t prove it, don’t claim it.


4 central midfielders in a row. This is your fantasy. This is entirely inside your head. Your mind is creating an alternate reality you live in.


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Post #509411  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:54 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Hi Bernard,

I would hope that Arteta does not rate him as anything more than an average PL midfielder, because realistically that's all he is. His lack of mobility around the pitch coupled with his inability to tackle cleanly, without pulling the man back or tripping him, means he will never sit at the top table of PL midfielders in my opinion. The fact that Arteta picks him every week is more a reflection of the inadequacies of the rest of our midfielders, I would suggest, than any huge endorsement of Xhaka's qualities.

If we could get back anything like what we paid for him I'd sell him in a heartbeat.

I wouldn’t argue with your moderate criticism of Xhaka socrates. I’d be happy to see him sold for a good price, as I’ve said repeatedly. My point is Top Gun goes ludicrously over the top about how bad he is. Worse than Hillier? For Christ’s sake that’s stupid. Xhaka’s quite slow, makes silly tackles (but at least makes tackles), but does pass the ball well and quite intelligently, and shows leadership qualities. Not a play who will win you the league, although he played well in a cup final we won. But not as bad as Top Gun pretends.


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Post #509412  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:57 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
4 central midfielders in a row. This is your fantasy. This is entirely inside your head. Your mind is creating an alternate reality you live in.

Morrow often played wider. Stop being stupid. Anyway, George’s team selections were often crazy over that period.


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Post #509413  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:04 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
socrates wrote:
Hi Bernard,

I would hope that Arteta does not rate him as anything more than an average PL midfielder, because realistically that's all he is. His lack of mobility around the pitch coupled with his inability to tackle cleanly, without pulling the man back or tripping him, means he will never sit at the top table of PL midfielders in my opinion. The fact that Arteta picks him every week is more a reflection of the inadequacies of the rest of our midfielders, I would suggest, than any huge endorsement of Xhaka's qualities.

If we could get back anything like what we paid for him I'd sell him in a heartbeat.

I wouldn’t argue with your moderate criticism of Xhaka socrates. I’d be happy to see him sold for a good price, as I’ve said repeatedly. My point is Top Gun goes ludicrously over the top about how bad he is. Worse than Hillier? For Christ’s sake that’s stupid. Xhaka’s quite slow, makes silly tackles (but at least makes tackles), but does pass the ball well and quite intelligently, and shows leadership qualities. Not a play who will win you the league, although he played well in a cup final we won. But not as bad as Top Gun pretends.


Hillier had a title win in a team that only lost a single game. A lifetime away from Xhaka


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Post #509414  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:05 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
4 central midfielders in a row. This is your fantasy. This is entirely inside your head. Your mind is creating an alternate reality you live in.

Morrow often played wider. Stop being stupid. Anyway, George’s team selections were often crazy over that period.

Morrow was mostly a left back. Another reason all this stuff is inside your head.


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Post #509415  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:09 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Morrow was mostly a left back. Another reason all this stuff is inside your head.

No he was not. He started at left back but mostly played in midfield.


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Post #509416  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:11 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Morrow was mostly a left back. Another reason all this stuff is inside your head.

No he was not. He started at left back but mostly played in midfield.

Not in a central midfield 4

You have created an alternate reality. Like science fiction. Maybe inception where Di caprio can’t tell what is real or reality anymore


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Post #509417  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:17 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hillier had a title win in a team that only lost a single game. A lifetime away from Xhaka

I went to that single defeat, at Stamford Bridge if you’re not sure. From memory I seem to remember it was Hillier who lost us the game.


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Post #509418  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:20 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Hillier had a title win in a team that only lost a single game. A lifetime away from Xhaka

I went to that single defeat, at Stamford Bridge if you’re not sure. From memory I seem to remember it was Hillier who lost us the game.


Yeah me too, incredibly he was playing at centre half cause Bould was injured and Adams was nicked if I recall


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Post #509419  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:29 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Not in a central midfield 4

You have created an alternate reality. Like science fiction. Maybe inception where Di caprio can’t tell what is real or reality anymore

They would have played together in midfield. Okay we’re comparing my four against your definition of the worst ever Arsenal midfield you’ve seen. If you’re narrowing it down to central midfield who are you comparing my choices against? Torreira, Guendouzi, Xhaka are the main three you must be talking about, although Ceballos Willock and Özil have also played. Name your central midfielders then. Because I would rate any of them higher than those I named.


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Post #509420  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:33 pm 
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Anyway I’m off to bed. I’ll see what you say in the morning.


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Post #509421  Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:36 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Not in a central midfield 4

You have created an alternate reality. Like science fiction. Maybe inception where Di caprio can’t tell what is real or reality anymore

They would have played together in midfield. Okay we’re comparing my four against your definition of the worst ever Arsenal midfield you’ve seen. If you’re narrowing it down to central midfield who are you comparing my choices against? Torreira, Guendouzi, Xhaka are the main three you must be talking about, although Ceballos Willock and Özil have also played. Name your central midfielders then. Because I would rate any of them higher than those I named.

I’ve Already said this not going to repeat myself


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Post #509422  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:39 am 
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Liverpool is known for the variety of players who can score on you but their goals against is great and miles better than the rest of the league. They are very difficult to score on.

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Post #509423  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:03 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Liverpool is known for the variety of players who can score on you but their goals against is great and miles better than the rest of the league. They are very difficult to score on.

So are you saying it’s good to have a solid defence? It’s a wonder that others have never realised how important this is. George Graham could have used this to our advantage if he had known.

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Post #509424  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:58 am 
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Quite enjoyed that episode of "After You, Claude" starring Pete and Bernard.

Anyway, today in 1940...


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Post #509425  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:52 pm 
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i'm reading articles where players said Emery's instructions were 'confusing'. Seems a lack of communication. Maybe the translation from what he wants into English wasn't accurate enough.

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Post #509426  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:58 pm 
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Pretty interesting the ownership of the clubs. I hadn't realized some were so rich. I've always had a soft spot and its cemented because the owner also owns my hometown Philadelphia 76ers
Also had no idea West Ham's owner made his money in soft porn.

https://talksport.com/football/666456/r ... er-united/

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Post #509427  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:48 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
i'm reading articles where players said Emery's instructions were 'confusing'. Seems a lack of communication. Maybe the translation from what he wants into English wasn't accurate enough.

It was common knowledge of sorts from players on various media outlets that Emery's instructions didn't exactly translate well. Language barrier? Quite possibly among other things.

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Post #509428  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:50 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Pretty interesting the ownership of the clubs. I hadn't realized some were so rich. I've always had a soft spot and its cemented because the owner also owns my hometown Philadelphia 76ers
Also had no idea West Ham's owner made his money in soft porn.

https://talksport.com/football/666456/r ... er-united/

Rich clubs....that's also quite common knowledge. Plenty of them around in varoius levels.

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Post #509429  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:22 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Decaf wrote:
And Peter has appointed himself ref and scorer. Var needs to check all of those.

If it’s the same refs who do All Blacks games he has open slather


Well if it's any consellation to you I'd say the All Blacks have had their 'day in the sun' .

Retirement of a lot of top players and the appointment of what I think is a very average coach .

Your arse backwards mob have snared Dave Rennie ; I'd like to have seen him coaching the All Blacks


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Post #509430  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:58 pm 
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Zed wrote:
But, over at MU, Fergie's input to OGS most likely happens on occasion. Therefore Arteta may or may not have in passing suggested it. You'd have to be a fly on the wall to really know anyway.

Slight difference though Zed ; Ferguson went out a winner , managed to drag an ailing threadbare Man Uted side to a title and I'd think he still has a lot to offer
in the advice department .

Arsene by comparison in his last few years made terrible decisions , buying midgets , not selling Sanchez , awarding Özil [ choke ] 350k a week , bought Mkhitaryan , insituted a bloody awful playing style which we are still paying for today .

I'd be very disappointed if Wenger came back in any capacity .


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Post #509431  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:36 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Parkerknoll Gooner wrote:

Talk to Xhaka all you want won’t make a blind bit of difference, too slow, doesn’t read the game, can’t smell danger.... above all else he’s just a wee bit dim. Guendouzi is young and comes from the french lower division, prepared to give him a pass for now. Özil has all but retired. Torreira is too lightweight.


Spot on here

To say Xhaka is underperforming is a joke.

He’s underperformed for 3 different managers and in over 100 games eh. Comparing him to selley who only played about half that amount of games is nonsense.


I think there is a tendency to bash Selley , Hillier , Morrow , McGoldrick , Jensen as a midfield because of George Graham misguided disamantling of the Rocastle , Davis , Thomas triumvirate beforehand and a comparison with the illustrious names that followed .

I could be wrong , but didn't we beat Parma , Sheffield Wednesday twice in Cup Finals with that same motley collection .

They mightn't have be stellar names but from memory we had a lot more cohesion than we currently display .

It is said on paper we should have a decent midfield which is true ; the only problem the game isn't played on paper .

At the moment we have a collection talented individuals who could fare well swapped out one for one into other sides but as seen when we get the run around by the likes of 'minnows' Brighton , Burnley , Palace , Watford our current side are a bunch of square pegs in round holes .

A lot of our players look worse than they actually are because they don't operate as a team .


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Post #509432  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:40 pm 
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Zed wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Pretty interesting the ownership of the clubs. I hadn't realized some were so rich. I've always had a soft spot and its cemented because the owner also owns my hometown Philadelphia 76ers
Also had no idea West Ham's owner made his money in soft porn.

https://talksport.com/football/666456/r ... er-united/

Rich clubs....that's also quite common knowledge. Plenty of them around in varoius levels.


If you live in the UK, then sure it would, but not to me. Matches are on tv, I watch them..lol. The intricacies of the various clubs? No, as far as the ownership, such as promoted clubs, other things. The bigger clubs I knew of as well as some of the PL clubs but not top to bottom. And certainly not the ownership of the lower divisions in part because those of us half way around the globe don't get an opportunity to see the matches.

Didn't realize how many billionaires owned clubs. Not so when I first became a fan.

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Post #509433  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:46 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
I'd be very disappointed if Wenger came back in any capacity .

As would I.


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Post #509434  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:51 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
I'd be very disappointed if Wenger came back in any capacity .

As would I.

Just looked it up Davis was actually playing in the Parma match along with Morrow and Selley in midfield so I've achieved a bit of a mix amd match with the previous post :laughing7: Hillier was injured

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GYlYXVfzw


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Post #509435  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:08 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
It is said on paper we should have a decent midfield which is true ; the only problem the game isn't played on paper .

At the moment we have a collection talented individuals who could fare well swapped out one for one into other sides but as seen when we get the run around by the likes of 'minnows' Brighton , Burnley , Palace , Watford our current side are a bunch of square pegs in round holes .

A lot of our players look worse than they actually are because they don't operate as a team .

I agree with these points too. The midfield is underperforming, made up by decent players who don’t function as well as their abilities imply they could. There have been exceptions like Man Utd at home. Unless I’ve miscounted, Arteta has been in for nine games now. Rather than performances like Man Utd being a one in nine rarity, I hope he soon makes it a frequent eight in nine event.

I hope Arteta gets the money to recruit players. But even if (a) Kroenke doesn’t or (b) Stan does but Arteta decides to spend the money on other areas of the pitch, I will expect Arteta to get more out of the midfielders he has available.


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Post #509436  Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:11 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Zed wrote:
But, over at MU, Fergie's input to OGS most likely happens on occasion. Therefore Arteta may or may not have in passing suggested it. You'd have to be a fly on the wall to really know anyway.

Slight difference though Zed ; Ferguson went out a winner , managed to drag an ailing threadbare Man Uted side to a title and I'd think he still has a lot to offer
in the advice department .

Arsene by comparison in his last few years made terrible decisions , buying midgets , not selling Sanchez , awarding Özil [ choke ] 350k a week , bought Mkhitaryan , insituted a bloody awful playing style which we are still paying for today .

I'd be very disappointed if Wenger came back in any capacity .

I know what you're saying Kiwi. The comparison was only as both players played for each of their respective managers. Therein would-could be open to whatever guidance or advice that manager wished to impart. No, personally I would prefer AW not return to the club. Returning to a PL club at all as a manager or n whatever capacity is whole different scenario.

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Post #509437  Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:18 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Bernard wrote:
As would I.

Just looked it up Davis was actually playing in the Parma match along with Morrow and Selley in midfield so I've achieved a bit of a mix amd match with the previous post :laughing7: Hillier was injured

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GYlYXVfzw


Oh, but for that very very determined and disciplined defence again! And for a Captain like Adams!

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Post #509438  Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:50 am 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:


At the moment we have a collection talented individuals who could fare well swapped out one for one into other sides but as seen when we get the run around by the likes of 'minnows' Brighton , Burnley , Palace , Watford our current side are a bunch of square pegs in round holes .

A lot of our players look worse than they actually are because they don't operate as a team .

I agree with these points too. The midfield is underperforming, made up by decent players who don’t function as well as their abilities imply they could. There have been exceptions like Man Utd at home. Unless I’ve miscounted, Arteta has been in for nine games now. Rather than performances like Man Utd being a one in nine rarity, I hope he soon makes it a frequent eight in nine event.

I hope Arteta gets the money to recruit players. But even if (a) Kroenke doesn’t or (b) Stan does but Arteta decides to spend the money on other areas of the pitch, I will expect Arteta to get more out of the midfielders he has available.


This is great everyone thinks Bernard and I are constantly at loggerheads but deep down behind the Mancini / Mertesacker banter we are great mates .

Along with Kazakh Boy and Niall think we are the longest serving posters .

Agreeing on two things in one day if I wasn't off to bed I'd be breaking out the :3to-drink:


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Post #509439  Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:41 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I agree with these points too. The midfield is underperforming, made up by decent players who don’t function as well as their abilities imply they could. There have been exceptions like Man Utd at home. Unless I’ve miscounted, Arteta has been in for nine games now. Rather than performances like Man Utd being a one in nine rarity, I hope he soon makes it a frequent eight in nine event.

I hope Arteta gets the money to recruit players. But even if (a) Kroenke doesn’t or (b) Stan does but Arteta decides to spend the money on other areas of the pitch, I will expect Arteta to get more out of the midfielders he has available.


This is great everyone thinks Bernard and I are constantly at loggerheads but deep down behind the Mancini / Mertesacker banter we are great mates .

Along with Kazakh Boy and Niall think we are the longest serving posters .

Agreeing on two things in one day if I wasn't off to bed I'd be breaking out the :3to-drink:

Very heartwarming Kiwi, time for a forum group hug.


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Post #509440  Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 11885

Press saying Ramsey will be sold in the summer by Juve. Like I said when he left they never would have signed him if he wasn’t free.

He’ll probably end up at chelsea or United this summer.


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