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Post #479801  Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Good on ya Arry. Strachan look upset.............


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Post #479802  Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:56 pm 
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There goes the ever valuable perfect qualifying record... :24cry:

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Post #479803  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:17 am 
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john1 wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

How's things in the valleys ...?
.


All reasonably good over here thanks Pete. I was a little inebriated (in fact a lot inebriated) when I replied to your comment. Now I'm sober, I agree with you even more!

I was out celebrating the Tories not getting the stunning majority they were hoping for. I am now a little more hopeful that the austerity agenda of punishing the less well off, and those less able to represent themselves, and who haven't had a voice in the debate, (a situation caused by free market economic policies gone mad) can now be modified a lot and the voices of those who have suffered disproportionately will start to be heard. "All in it together" - what a joke.
.
My partner has MS; she volunteers for the MS society as a counsellor, and she often tells me stories of people with severe disabilities and financial problems who have been told they no longer qualify for state support. She also hears similar stories through her connections with others in the voluntary sector.
It's time to stop making the less well off in our society bear the brunt of austerity. But where are the jobs for them, even if they could work?
Time for change.

Sorry for the rant; I've just realised I'm still a bit tiddly.


:laughing7: no problem with the rant Johnny Boy that's the beauty of the Gleiber it isn't just your Joe Average " what team are we putting out this week " oh golly I hope Bellerin , Sanchez , Koshielny whoever is fit " type football forum .
The amount of times I've posted on here semi paralytic .

We've all got our cross to bear , my wife has chronic fatigue syndrome , spends her whole day playing Solitaire , checking her geneology , watching Inspector Morse , Lynley , Poirot , Taggart , Mid Summer murders , house makeovers . I do 98% of the cooking cleaning etc ... c'est la vie . Her sister lives in Kent has quite advanced MS

Had some wonderful news yesterday .... we live down a long drive , the house in front caters for some handicapped kids and comes under the auspices of the NZ Housing Corp . Their path is about four feet higher than my drive so when part of this rotten ivy covered fence [ the sod I was trying to deal to with my homegrown weed eater skil saw ] fell over and constitutes a hazard , Housing NZ have decided to rip out about sixty metres of fence , cart it away and build a new wooden one .... with no cost to me .

No more cutting ivy , loading the trailer , trips to the dump .
Usually where a fence is concerned the cost is shared between both parties . :26encouragement: :


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Post #479804  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:26 am 
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One for Hodd if he hasn't seen it already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_C0VguiqQ

I've got a lot of hope for AMN - Every time I see him play, I think he's got something. If he can stay injury free and keep as focused as he is now, he's got a real chance.

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Post #479805  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:43 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
john1 wrote:

All reasonably good over here thanks Pete. I was a little inebriated (in fact a lot inebriated) when I replied to your comment. Now I'm sober, I agree with you even more!

I was out celebrating the Tories not getting the stunning majority they were hoping for. I am now a little more hopeful that the austerity agenda of punishing the less well off, and those less able to represent themselves, and who haven't had a voice in the debate, (a situation caused by free market economic policies gone mad) can now be modified a lot and the voices of those who have suffered disproportionately will start to be heard. "All in it together" - what a joke.
.
My partner has MS; she volunteers for the MS society as a counsellor, and she often tells me stories of people with severe disabilities and financial problems who have been told they no longer qualify for state support. She also hears similar stories through her connections with others in the voluntary sector.
It's time to stop making the less well off in our society bear the brunt of austerity. But where are the jobs for them, even if they could work?
Time for change.

Sorry for the rant; I've just realised I'm still a bit tiddly.


:laughing7: no problem with the rant Johnny Boy that's the beauty of the Gleiber it isn't just your Joe Average " what team are we putting out this week " oh golly I hope Bellerin , Sanchez , Koshielny whoever is fit " type football forum .
The amount of times I've posted on here semi paralytic .

We've all got our cross to bear , my wife has chronic fatigue syndrome , spends her whole day playing Solitaire , checking her geneology , watching Inspector Morse , Lynley , Poirot , Taggart , Mid Summer murders , house makeovers . I do 98% of the cooking cleaning etc ... c'est la vie . Her sister lives in Kent has quite advanced MS

Had some wonderful news yesterday .... we live down a long drive , the house in front caters for some handicapped kids and comes under the auspices of the NZ Housing Corp . Their path is about four feet higher than my drive so when part of this rotten ivy covered fence [ the sod I was trying to deal to with my homegrown weed eater skil saw ] fell over and constitutes a hazard , Housing NZ have decided to rip out about sixty metres of fence , cart it away and build a new wooden one .... with no cost to me .

No more cutting ivy , loading the trailer , trips to the dump .
Usually where a fence is concerned the cost is shared between both parties . :26encouragement: :


Result!
And no more researching how to make a wooden leg in case next time you use the saw you go the whole way through.

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Post #479806  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:51 am 
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Manchester City set to make Alexis Sanchez their highest-paid star ever

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/621386/Arsenal-Arsene-Wenger-Alexis-Sanchez-Pep-Guardiola-Premier-League-Manchester-City-Transfer


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Post #479807  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:19 am 
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warrior wrote:


I just can't see how we can sell Alexis to City, not without some absurdly over the top transfer fee or getting Aguero in exchange (why would Aguero want to sign for us at his age and with no CL football).

I do not get the hype surrounding Lacazette either, he's not even a starter for France and if he was that good he'd be the first name on the team sheet.


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Post #479808  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:42 am 
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socrates wrote:
warrior wrote:


I just can't see how we can sell Alexis to City, not without some absurdly over the top transfer fee or getting Aguero in exchange (why would Aguero want to sign for us at his age and with no CL football).

I do not get the hype surrounding Lacazette either, he's not even a starter for France and if he was that good he'd be the first name on the team sheet.

Hi Soc

I'd imagine it is just standard transfer rumour bs. The links to Munich make far more sense.

As for Lacazette, he scores lots of goals. Deschamps doesn't seem to rate him, or else he wants a bigger player as a partner for Griezman. Deschamps doesn't play Martial either, and while he has struggled this season, he had a very good 15/16 season but never really nailed down a spot in the French team.

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Post #479809  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:51 am 
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Sanchez wanting out is partially Wenger's fault for putting a side that has no fight in them. We didn't seem like we were progressing. We created our own issue. Clubs sense a weakness and are jumping on it.

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Post #479810  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:26 am 
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So the detestable munchen got Gnabry on the cheap a year after sorting his move to Bremen in order to get him our of Arsenal on the cheap. Seriously dodgy dealings.
http://dailycannon.com/2017/06/serge-gn ... door-deal/

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Post #479811  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:36 am 
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I can't believe we allowed Gnabry to leave for £4m when average players like Jordan Ibe moved for nearly four times that amount.


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Post #479812  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:40 am 
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david.d wrote:
Hi Sab
I wondeŕ if wenger would explore that idea. Aguero is more clinical but sanchez all round game is better. Would make sense
I think sanchez is a year younger.
I think if sanchez goes to city tbey win the title

Hi DD, I just can't see this happening but if they are interested then tell them Aguero or no deal. Guardiola obviously doesn't rate Aguero as highly as others. He's a brilliant striker and I'd prefer him over Sanchez but in reality there's very little chance of a swap deal happening.


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Post #479813  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:56 am 
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Sabir wrote:
I can't believe we allowed Gnabry to leave for £4m when average players like Jordan Ibe moved for nearly four times that amount.

Really pathetic fee from Arsenal. If the player wanted to leave then sometimes you have to let them go but ensure you get a fee that at a minimum represents their value.
I fear that Wenger has too much loyalty and emotion attached to 'his' players, and so when they want a move or he can't give them minutes he seems to see it as his responsibility to get the player the best move, extracting a big fee doesn't seem to come i to it beca De it might make the move more difficult for the player.
Arsenal have a history of this, too many players leaving for free and reduced fees. Vieira and Henry only moved for £13-16m, Fabregas for £30m was a joke, even only getting £7m out of city for clichy was poor - city were paying £15-20m for every player at the time.
Ok we got decent money for adebayor but only considering he flopped afterwards.
I think we'll see it again this summer. Would it surprise anyone if the fees we got for players leaving this summer was in the region of: Ospina £3m, jenkinson £2m, Gibbs £5m, Perez £10m


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Post #479814  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:56 am 
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Sabir wrote:
I can't believe we allowed Gnabry to leave for £4m when average players like Jordan Ibe moved for nearly four times that amount.


He only had a year left on his contract and made it very clear he was going to leave and not sign a new one, having been poised to do so just days before...there is a reason Wenger said Bayern were involved. Basically they negotiated with him in secret while he was away at the summer tournament and not only convinced him to go back on his word re a contract renewal but then to spend a year at Bremen and negotiate a super low release clause that only they could trigger, because they knew Arsenal would never sell to Bayern so cheap, but also to ensure Arsenal's sell on clause meant nothing.

He became a German international and scored 11 goals in a struggling team and yet Bremen made a profit of only 2m for him. The entire thing stinks, but isn't illegal.

Just another reason to hate Bayern and the way they do business.

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Post #479815  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:12 am 
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What's worse is that on top of using Bremen's financial difficulties to keep the fee down, Bayern then also screwed Bremen. Yes, they help out the teams going bust down the leagues who can never affect them (except providing youth players) but they are sharks with everyone else.

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Post #479816  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:15 am 
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lomekian wrote:
He only had a year left on his contract and made it very clear he was going to leave and not sign a new one, having been poised to do so just days before...there is a reason Wenger said Bayern were involved. Basically they negotiated with him in secret while he was away at the summer tournament and not only convinced him to go back on his word re a contract renewal but then to spend a year at Bremen and negotiate a super low release clause that only they could trigger, because they knew Arsenal would never sell to Bayern so cheap, but also to ensure Arsenal's sell on clause meant nothing.

He became a German international and scored 11 goals in a struggling team and yet Bremen made a profit of only 2m for him. The entire thing stinks, but isn't illegal.

Just another reason to hate Bayern and the way they do business.

What a pathetic, childish post. Bayern have paid £8m for him, and Arsenal sold him to Bremen for £4.25m according to your link. So if my mental arithmetic isn't too unsound, that's a £3.75m difference. Big bloody deal. Aren't there slightly bigger or more important issues to get your knickers in a twist about, especially considering I suspect Arsenal would have bitten the hand off Bayern to get the £8m direct from them last season being a then unproven Gnabry had told us he would not renew his contract?

As you say, Bayern did nothing illegal, so what's the problem? If Gnabry had failed at Bremen last season, I don't suppose Bayern would be interested now. But he did well so they've signed him. It's called Bayern looking after their own interests. If Arsenal were half as good at looking after our own interests as them, I've little doubt we would be a stronger club. Try growing up and acting your age when you write about one of, if not the, greatest club(s) in the world. Bayern Munich are a credit to world football.

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Post #479817  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:20 am 
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lomekian wrote:
What's worse is that on top of using Bremen's financial difficulties to keep the fee down, Bayern then also screwed Bremen. Yes, they help out the teams going bust down the leagues who can never affect them (except providing youth players) but they are sharks with everyone else.

Dortmund being one of your little clubs down the leagues I suppose.

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Post #479818  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:30 am 
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socrates wrote:
warrior wrote:


I just can't see how we can sell Alexis to City, not without some absurdly over the top transfer fee or getting Aguero in exchange (why would Aguero want to sign for us at his age and with no CL football).

I do not get the hype surrounding Lacazette either, he's not even a starter for France and if he was that good he'd be the first name on the team sheet.


Id call Alexis bluff and force him to see out his contract if it's city. He'll be 29 next summer and wouldn't command the same wages. Would force him towards a new contract


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Post #479819  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:32 am 
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Dive from Venezuela against England in u20 final. Ref gets advice from video ref, who give it. Tv replay shows clearly no contact at all. Bizarre. Goalie saves from the player who dived though. Instant karma.

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Post #479820  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:35 am 
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England winning 1-0 did our boy Maitland-Niles score? It's on BBC2 if anyone wants to watch. 20 mins of the game left...................


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Post #479821  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:44 am 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
What's worse is that on top of using Bremen's financial difficulties to keep the fee down, Bayern then also screwed Bremen. Yes, they help out the teams going bust down the leagues who can never affect them (except providing youth players) but they are sharks with everyone else.

Dortmund being one of your little clubs down the leagues I suppose.


And as soon as Dortmund became a threat the dirty tricks, exploiting every rule, started again relentlessly. Sure they did nothing wrong exploiting release clauses, but promising huge wages to players if they run their contracts down (Lewandowski) is technically against the rules. The one that did it for me was publicly releasing the information about Gotze's release clause activation they afternoon of Dortmunds CL semi-final to de-stabilise the club & make it difficult for Goetze to play.

That was really low. Purely to destabilise a rival in a game that didn't affect Bayern themselves.

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Post #479822  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:46 am 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
He only had a year left on his contract and made it very clear he was going to leave and not sign a new one, having been poised to do so just days before...there is a reason Wenger said Bayern were involved. Basically they negotiated with him in secret while he was away at the summer tournament and not only convinced him to go back on his word re a contract renewal but then to spend a year at Bremen and negotiate a super low release clause that only they could trigger, because they knew Arsenal would never sell to Bayern so cheap, but also to ensure Arsenal's sell on clause meant nothing.

He became a German international and scored 11 goals in a struggling team and yet Bremen made a profit of only 2m for him. The entire thing stinks, but isn't illegal.

Just another reason to hate Bayern and the way they do business.

What a pathetic, childish post. Bayern have paid £8m for him, and Arsenal sold him to Bremen for £4.25m according to your link. So if my mental arithmetic isn't too unsound, that's a £3.75m difference. Big bloody deal. Aren't there slightly bigger or more important issues to get your knickers in a twist about, especially considering I suspect Arsenal would have bitten the hand off Bayern to get the £8m direct from them last season being a then unproven Gnabry had told us he would not renew his contract?

As you say, Bayern did nothing illegal, so what's the problem? If Gnabry had failed at Bremen last season, I don't suppose Bayern would be interested now. But he did well so they've signed him. It's called Bayern looking after their own interests. If Arsenal were half as good at looking after our own interests as them, I've little doubt we would be a stronger club. Try growing up and acting your age when you write about one of, if not the, greatest club(s) in the world. Bayern Munich are a credit to world football.


The 8m was in Euros...do pay attention 007!

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Post #479823  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:51 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Id call Alexis bluff and force him to see out his contract if it's city. He'll be 29 next summer and wouldn't command the same wages. Would force him towards a new contract

I can understand your point but are Arsenal really going to be competing with City for the title next season with Wenger staying? If we'd get £50m from City this summer, I can also understand why he would be sold there now rather than lose him to exactly the same club for zilch in a year. Especially if nobody at Arsenal thinks we can win the league, and despite Wenger's lying to placate fans I suspect that could be the case.

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Post #479824  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:56 am 
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lomekian wrote:
The 8m was in Euros...do pay attention 007!

Cor, really. £8m is currently worth €7m. That makes all the difference, doesn't it?

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Post #479825  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:58 am 
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Is this a bonafide story re Alexis agreeing to stay?. Does it come from a legitimate source?

https://shewore.com/2017/06/11/alexis-s ... -contract/


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Post #479826  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
The 8m was in Euros...do pay attention 007!

Cor, really. £8m is currently worth €7m. That makes all the difference, doesn't it?


In this case as a %, yes it does. If you are going to ignore the point by quibbling over figures, get your figures right.

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Post #479827  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:10 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Dortmund being one of your little clubs down the leagues I suppose.

And as soon as Dortmund became a threat the dirty tricks, exploiting every rule, started again relentlessly. Sure they did nothing wrong exploiting release clauses, but promising huge wages to players if they run their contracts down (Lewandowski) is technically against the rules. The one that did it for me was publicly releasing the information about Gotze's release clause activation they afternoon of Dortmunds CL semi-final to de-stabilise the club & make it difficult for Goetze to play.

That was really low. Purely to destabilise a rival in a game that didn't affect Bayern themselves.

Dortmund were always a potential threat to Bayern, and Bayern enabled them to continue being a threat. Manchester United wanted Lewandowski when he was nearing the end of his contract at Dortmund, and I'm sure they'd have paid him more which shows how weak your point about him is. Regarding your point about Gotze, do you genuinely believe the garbage you come out with or is it simply a wind-up? Dortmund had Real Madrid in the semi-final. Considering that Bayern finished 25 points ahead of Dortmund in the Bundesliga that season so were way better than them, don't you think it might just be possible they'd rather have played Dortmund in the final than Real?

EDIT: By the way, Gotze did play against Real Madrid. So maybe it wasn't that difficult?

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Post #479828  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:16 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Dortmund being one of your little clubs down the leagues I suppose.


And as soon as Dortmund became a threat the dirty tricks, exploiting every rule, started again relentlessly. Sure they did nothing wrong exploiting release clauses, but promising huge wages to players if they run their contracts down (Lewandowski) is technically against the rules. The one that did it for me was publicly releasing the information about Gotze's release clause activation they afternoon of Dortmunds CL semi-final to de-stabilise the club & make it difficult for Goetze to play.

That was really low. Purely to destabilise a rival in a game that didn't affect Bayern themselves.


Reminiscent of the kind of cheating indulged in on Football Manager back in the day. Which they're able to I suppose because they rule the roost. I think we've had similar sort of occurrences but you never remember them because they don't cause the same outrage. I am SORT of with Bernard in that you wish Arsenal were able to garner the same sort of advantages within the rules. The last advantage we had was the knowledge of the potential of young French players which lasted for a time.

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Post #479829  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:17 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Cor, really. £8m is currently worth €7m. That makes all the difference, doesn't it?

In this case as a %, yes it does. If you are going to ignore the point by quibbling over figures, get your figures right.

Okay, I was careless and put pounds instead of Euros. As a percentage it matters, you say? It's a practically meaningless amount in professional football at the upper level, and that's the important issue. If I lend someone a pound and they only give me 1p back, percentage wise that's an even bigger shortfall. But it's such a meaningless sum I wouldn't give a damn in terms of the difference it would make to my standard of living.

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Post #479830  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:22 pm 
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It's strange how Gnabry is now at Bayern when in the season before last he couldn't even get into WBA's matchday squad. I know he got injured the year before when he was with us but he did look decent in the few showings he had for us that season. He used the Olympics to his advantage very well and has risen quicker than most of us thought. Could be one that we regret. I remember Wenger saying that he wanted to keep him last summer and Gnabry saying similar, only to change his mind within weeks. It is a bit fishy but if he was coming to the end of his contract, it's his prerogative to negotiate the best possible deal for himself. I reckon if he did better at WBA we would have made more of an attempt to sign him up earlier.


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Post #479831  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:27 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
And as soon as Dortmund became a threat the dirty tricks, exploiting every rule, started again relentlessly. Sure they did nothing wrong exploiting release clauses, but promising huge wages to players if they run their contracts down (Lewandowski) is technically against the rules. The one that did it for me was publicly releasing the information about Gotze's release clause activation they afternoon of Dortmunds CL semi-final to de-stabilise the club & make it difficult for Goetze to play.

That was really low. Purely to destabilise a rival in a game that didn't affect Bayern themselves.

Dortmund were always a potential threat to Bayern, and Bayern enabled them to continue being a threat. Manchester United wanted Lewandowski when he was nearing the end of his contract at Dortmund, and I'm sure they'd have paid him more which shows how weak your point about him is. Regarding your point about Gotze, do you genuinely believe the garbage you come out with or is it simply a wind-up? Dortmund had Real Madrid in the semi-final. Considering that Bayern finished 25 points ahead of Dortmund in the Bundesliga that season so were way better than them, don't you think it might just be possible they'd rather have played Dortmund in the final than Real?

EDIT: By the way, Gotze did play against Real Madrid. So maybe it wasn't that difficult?


Everyone wanted Lewandowski...Your point? The fact is Bayern had a contractual agreement a year in advance which was common knowledge among anyone paying attention and was widely reported. They tried to get him to force a move away before hand, but he wanted to try to win the ECL with Dortmund first. Either way, they broke the rules, but a la Barca and Madrid, got away with it because of who they are.

Re Goetze...why do you think they released the information on the afternoon of the ECL semi then? Was it just a coincidence? Was it also a coincidence that Goetze got booed by his own fans as a result, stunk the game out, and his form went down the toilet? Or was that another example of Bayern's generosity?

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Post #479832  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I fear that Wenger has too much loyalty and emotion attached to 'his' players, and so when they want a move or he can't give them minutes he seems to see it as his responsibility to get the player the best move

The majority of ex players love Wenger partly due to this loyalty which is a great quality. However if it costs the club money when selling players then that's not so great. And I'd say the loyalty is a bit missplaced if it potentially impacts on the team negatively, ie playing Ospina over Čech which weakened us in the final.


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Post #479833  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:44 pm 
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AshleyGeorge wrote:
lomekian wrote:

And as soon as Dortmund became a threat the dirty tricks, exploiting every rule, started again relentlessly. Sure they did nothing wrong exploiting release clauses, but promising huge wages to players if they run their contracts down (Lewandowski) is technically against the rules. The one that did it for me was publicly releasing the information about Gotze's release clause activation they afternoon of Dortmunds CL semi-final to de-stabilise the club & make it difficult for Goetze to play.

That was really low. Purely to destabilise a rival in a game that didn't affect Bayern themselves.


Reminiscent of the kind of cheating indulged in on Football Manager back in the day. Which they're able to I suppose because they rule the roost. I think we've had similar sort of occurrences but you never remember them because they don't cause the same outrage. I am SORT of with Bernard in that you wish Arsenal were able to garner the same sort of advantages within the rules. The last advantage we had was the knowledge of the potential of young French players which lasted for a time.


I certainly wish Arsenal were more like Bayern in their commercial competence and their youth scouting, but in the same way I look at Chelsea and others, there is doing what you can to be the best and then there is going beyond that, which seems unnecessary and slightly immoral. Of course 75% of the way Bayern operates is a fantastic model, same with Barca, but both have power which they abuse. Its utterly ruthless, and we could do with rather more of that, but for me, both take it too far. I know my romantic ideals may seem unrealistic, but they are where I stand.

There is no doubt that Arsenal pushed the rules a bit regarding poaching kids for a brief while a few years ago, but not nearly as much as Chelsea, Utd or Liverpool and certainly nowhere near the amount as teams they poached from like PSG and Barca, the latter of whom have a disgraceful record of doing so in dubious and sometimes illegal circumstances, but always get away with a slap on the wrist.

Its in part because in other European countries, the sporting authorities are more interested in the glory of the biggest teams, particularly in European competition than in the competitiveness of the league. At least German ownership structures provide some needed balance, and the TV money is nothing like as bent as it is in Spain, but despite the financial dominance of certain clubs in England, the league applies both rules and financial reward far more fairly than any other major league (which actually undermines English teams in European competition as we have more competitive weekly fixtures and no help from the fixture lists).

Spain is so bent as to be a joke. In Germany, part of the problem is that Bayern are stupendously rich compared to every other team, and are quite willing to, like Mourinho;s Chelsea, buy players they don't need simply to weaken domestic rivals. Dortmund have sorted themselves out a bit, but still are miles behind Bayern financially.

Italy suffers from the TV money differential for European games being so vast that Juve can outspend all but Milan and Inter at will (and those two clubs are appallingly run).

France is PSG's money plus the odd good year for someone else.

In England, the league has only been dominated by Fergies Utd (richer, better manager and a better youth set up than everyone else) and Liverpool in the 80s (similar advantages). Bar that its always been the most competitive of the leagues, and thus less open to abuse by the most powerful.

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Post #479834  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
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In this case as a %, yes it does. If you are going to ignore the point by quibbling over figures, get your figures right.

Okay, I was careless and put pounds instead of Euros. As a percentage it matters, you say? It's a practically meaningless amount in professional football at the upper level, and that's the important issue. If I lend someone a pound and they only give me 1p back, percentage wise that's an even bigger shortfall. But it's such a meaningless sum I wouldn't give a damn in terms of the difference it would make to my standard of living.


Tell that to the Bremen President who is hopping mad, and whose club is in a financial mess (probably partly his fault). To clubs like Arsenal, Bayern etc its chump change. But it matters to others.

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Post #479835  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Sabir wrote:
It's strange how Gnabry is now at Bayern when in the season before last he couldn't even get into WBA's matchday squad. I know he got injured the year before when he was with us but he did look decent in the few showings he had for us that season. He used the Olympics to his advantage very well and has risen quicker than most of us thought. Could be one that we regret. I remember Wenger saying that he wanted to keep him last summer and Gnabry saying similar, only to change his mind within weeks. It is a bit fishy but if he was coming to the end of his contract, it's his prerogative to negotiate the best possible deal for himself. I reckon if he did better at WBA we would have made more of an attempt to sign him up earlier.


Never loan a player to Pulis again. The WBA fans weren't happy he got so little time. I know Arsenal were trying to sign him on again since about Feb last year, but you know how these things work. Wenger had him in the first team squad at 17, but he missed over a year with an awful injury and then when he chose WBA as a loan destination that was a disaster.

Re Gnabry, I've not a massive problem with his actions. He got a better offer and is allowed to change his mind, no matter how it messes people around. Bayern on the other hand, appear to have used another club as a feeder team by agreeing something with a player that is against the rules but impossible to prove.

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Post #479836  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:57 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Tell that to the Bremen President who is hopping mad, and whose club is in a financial mess (probably partly his fault). To clubs like Arsenal, Bayern etc its chump change. But it matters to others.

I just think you're overstating things. It's less than a million quid.

Also if there was a prior agreement with Bayern, I don't see what the Bremen president has to be hopping mad about as he was in post when it would have been agreed last year (Fischer has been the president since 2014).

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Post #479837  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:57 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Re Goetze...why do you think they released the information on the afternoon of the ECL semi then? Was it just a coincidence? Was it also a coincidence that Goetze got booed by his own fans as a result, stunk the game out, and his form went down the toilet? Or was that another example of Bayern's generosity?

I genuinely don't know. Perhaps the press had got hold of the story and were going to release it? But I very much doubt Bayern did it to lower Dortmund's chances against Real Madrid, as you claimed with next to no evidence, as I strongly suggest they would rather have played Dortmund in the final than Real. I don't remember how Gotze played in the game, do you? However, the other ten players must have been sensational if Gotze "stunk the game out", as you put it, considering the result.

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Post #479838  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Re Goetze...why do you think they released the information on the afternoon of the ECL semi then? Was it just a coincidence? Was it also a coincidence that Goetze got booed by his own fans as a result, stunk the game out, and his form went down the toilet? Or was that another example of Bayern's generosity?

I genuinely don't know. Perhaps the press had got hold of the story and were going to release it? But I very much doubt Bayern did it to lower Dortmund's chances against Real Madrid, as you claimed with next to no evidence, as I strongly suggest they would rather have played Dortmund in the final than Real. I don't remember how Gotze played in the game, do you? However, the other ten players must have been sensational if Gotze "stunk the game out", as you put it, considering the result.


And who do you think briefed the press? It was about to be released in Bild by the reporter known as Bayern's mouthpeice and the Dortmund manager and directors made it pretty clear how unhappy they were with Bayern's conduct through insinuation. In fact Bayern leaked it to the press before they even notified Dortmund, which was equally poor.

Of course, it may have been released at that time in part to deflect from Uli Hoeness's tax evasion trial the following week, but surely in that case they could have waited a day.

As for the game Goetze was pretty quiet. Lewandowski gave one of the best centre-forward performances I've ever seen and Reus was excellent too.

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Post #479839  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Tell that to the Bremen President who is hopping mad, and whose club is in a financial mess (probably partly his fault). To clubs like Arsenal, Bayern etc its chump change. But it matters to others.

I just think you're overstating things. It's less than a million quid.

Also if there was a prior agreement with Bayern, I don't see what the Bremen president has to be hopping mad about as he was in post when it would have been agreed last year (Fischer has been the president since 2014).


Previous agreement with the player, rather than the club is what I'm implying - others have implied that Bremen may have had the transfer funded by Bayern, but that would be very very damaging if they were caught out, so I don't see it as implausible. Here Bayern have circumnavigated the rules using a loophole where any illegality is impossible to prove, but it is clearly in dodgy territory. If Wenger knew (as he certainly suggested) Bayern were involved in the initial transfer, as many others speculated, then technically he'd be within his rights to report them, but getting into a legal battle with Bayern would be very dangerous, and wouldn't have been worth it in this case.

There is no doubt that Bayern have at best exploited a loophole to reduce their own risk and to do Arsenal out of some money, but its impossible to prove categorically that they broke the law in doing so unless they were very naive, which I don't believe they are.

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Post #479840  Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:45 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
As for the game Goetze was pretty quiet. Lewandowski gave one of the best centre-forward performances I've ever seen and Reus was excellent too.

I don't see "pretty quiet" being the same as stinking the game out. I still say Bayern would have preferred to play Dortmund instead of Real Madrid in the final, so I write off your accusation that they did it to undermine Dortmund's chances against Real as extremely far-fetched, to say the least.

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