Was about to post this observation Lacazette obviously off form but can anyone also see Nketiah being anywhere near that level of the guys mentioned here,

Spot-on ltg

Again, spot-on Rich

Barkley created 6 chances in tonight’s game. The last time any arsenal player did that in any game was April 2018.

The trouble is I don't really see us being just one or two players short.

We have perhaps 1 player who would be near City or Liverpool's first 11 and that is simply not good enough.

I don't count Gabriel because its still far too early to tell what his eventual level will be.

We’re going to have to face up to a very up and down season. On occasion it will come together and we’ll play well and win, on others it’ll be like tonight.

We’re still paying the price of a series of squad building decisions that of you wrote them all down you’d be hard pushed to find a set of decisions that could have been worse for the club if we tried to implode the club from inside to out. I’m certainly not convinced we’re not still making some of those bad decisions still but I’m hopeful that we seem to have at least made some good ones.

The difference between the very rich is they can action things a lot quicker.

And the irony is that very few Arsenal fans would have wanted the inconsistent Barkley anywhere near the club.

Funny that he didn’t fist it away - he caught and made a great pass and we were totally opened up. It was the quick thought process that made a difference.

If Emery’s team gave this performance people clambered for him to be sacked. By the way Aubameyang was atrocious. We were destroyed like we usually are against teams like Bayern. People having been saying he has fixed the defence but there was little to suggest that. The only good thing out of this game was my betting app was down and refused to take my bet.

Agreed, there’s loads of talented inconsistent types like him in the prem. goes to show how far away we are.

Arteta has to take some responsibilty as well though Rich. Play Aubameyang centrally for a start.

Are we actually any more consistent than under Emery?

David, recall when AV were a consistent mid table side in the PL for a long time. They got relegated, now come back like gangbusters. May not stay that way, but then again we may not stay mid table either. Disappointing today to say the least. But there's the 2 week break now. Games coming up after will be pivotal obviously. I think MA really underestimates his opponents at times. His setup needs a more intrinsic scope of play than what he's often thinking he's providing. Speaks volumes of overhauling squad, expecting players to step up, be more disciplined, etc. Yet, doesn't transition onto the pitch that often, as seen by games played against sides we should have kicked to the kerb. I'll still support him, but he really needs to be more focused on ongoing issues.

I know he's not blessed with a plethora of creative talents but Arteta is a frustratingly conservative coach.

The current managers choices of Soares, Mari and Willian will haunt us for many years to come. People wonder why the owners don’t give us silly money to spend.

Looks like me shelling out for Box Office is the kiss of death. Home to Leicester and now this.

I did note above that Arteta needs to take a fair chunk of the blame tonight. We need a different approach to these home games. We need pace and tempo and pressing right from the off. If Arteta sets the team up for generally tight games then you have nowhere to turn when it goes wrong.
The Aubameyang one is difficult because he had so much success with him wide left, but right now it isn’t working so he needs to change it.
4-3-3 and use Aubameyang central and use wide players who are extra midfielders, work in tandem with their full back, can drift inside our out and give an attacking threat. In midfield play 3 who can play vertically, get between the lines. Play a team with tempo and pace

Arteta: I didn't see the spirit for the first time that I see every day in training.

And the annoying bit is it is international break now so we have to suffer this defeat for 2 weeks, fans and players and having it in the papers as the latest crisis club all that time. It’s not a good look

The biggest worry is that we sit something like 3rd worst team in the league for chances created, shots at goal and obviously have very few shots at goal - but the difference between us and those teams down there with us is we have an awful lot of the ball. So we literally have no idea at the moment how to create chances and shots in football matches.

We’ve built a squad that can’t play percentages and lump the ball long or just sling crosses in to the box.
We’ve built a squad that can’t play on the pace of our attackers running behind because we don’t have the movement, mobility or pace
We’ve built a squad that isn’t technically creative enough to pick holes in tight defences.

We’ve basically build a squad where the first few holes we had to plug were to somehow make us more solid, or less easy to score goals against (bar tonight). But that’s it for now

I look at the players we have though Rich and whilst not being anywhere near the level of City or Liverpool they shouldn't be getting schooled by Villa at home FFS!"

Why are Lacazette and Willian still starting?

I feel a little sorry for Lacazette because he is clearly trying but he is nowhere near the player he was a couple of seasons ago. His sharpness, mobility and finishing have gone. I don't know whether injuries have taken their toll or he is just in a natural decline but he should not be starting.

Willian, likewise, is a shadow of the player he was at Chelsea.

I actually recall Arteta not picking Martinelli before his injury and it seemed he just didn't fancy him. He seems to have his favorites.

I think the truth is our team and squad is average. It’s not the coach

Which of our lot gets in a top 4 side? Based on our previous title winners qualities I’d suggest possibly 6 players Leno, Bellerin, Aubameyang, partey, Gabriel and Tierney.

Some of our players are so over rated by our fans. Xhaka and ceballos look bog average to me yet people defend them to the hilt, lacazette once good but a spent force now and Nketiah should be playing for a side in the championship not Arsenal. Willian looks a retirement home signing to me

I long for players from our recent past and even ones that divided opinion like Ramsey, Ox and Wilshere. They would look like gods compared to the midfield of our current side.

This won’t be a quick turnaround but it’s not the manager

If Pépé and Nketiah our in the performance of willian and Lacazette they’d be dropped immediately for the next game. The problem is I’m not sure anyone has any faith that Pépé and Nketiah will do any different.

Feels like Willock deserves a chance. No other player like him in the squad

Arteta's tactics at home are pretty negative.

Yes I am concerned about his favouritism. As for Lacazette, Arteta wants him to play a role which no player at the club is built to play. People carry on about missed chances. Every striker misses chances. Look at Liverpool players they get 4-5 good clear chances every game and maybe score 1 or 2. Our team does not create many chances and most of them are not clear cut. I put it down as one clear cut chance today and maybe 1-2 against Leicester. We are the home team and have no game plan.

There is no creativity in the squad, Arteta can’t magic that up. What he can do is make us more offensive by pushing more men forward, playing at a higher tempo and with greater pace, movement and risk!

I long for the days, many moons ago under Wenger, when we had a soft centre but our biggest concern was the number of chances we squandered not how many we created and according to many just needed that fox-in-the-box. Those were the days

Games like tonight also show what a long way back we still have. Still plenty of players need to leave the club and we won’t be generating any funds for most of those players. Then we have very little funds to keep building a new exciting team. So you are then looking at selling some of our more prized assets which can set you back as well.

Yep, that certainly wasn’t the last few years under wenger but yeah back then it was annoying but it felt like we’d been naive or robbed in games we didn’t win - never thoroughly outplayed from start to finish and struggling to even have shots at goal.

Apparently we haven't scored a goal in open play for 5 games.

If we are not getting top 4 then I'd like to see the kids given PL games. Willock, Nelson, AMN.....give them some games.

No they don't. They barely escaped relegation last season. Grealish is brilliant. No question. But Villa would love to have what we have.

Hi Zed
The tempo just seems so methodical and slow.
Arteta has made us more solid but it seems to the detriment of our attacking play.
Grealish would do wonders for us and he was toying with us at times with the help of Barkley.
We have leeds away next then wolves at home then spurs. Where are the wins coming from???
We could be out of top 4 running before we hit 2021 if we carry on losing games.
Arteta has to shake and change things up . Add some guile and pace. He just seems so rigid in his approach. I'm still behind him but I really hope he has more strings to his bow. He came from city for goodness sake, surely this is not how he wants us to play permanently.
Willian and lacazette need to be dropped. The latter has been very poor. Huge investment which is not paying any sort of dividend at all.
He seems stifled. As if his natural game is suffering because he is being asked to play within a certain structure.

Do our training ground drills ever revolve around creating chances because it sure doesn't look like it. We get to the final third and our gameplan seems to be Tierney, Saka or Aubameyang throwing in a cross to virtually no one in the box.

Kroenke still here = Arsenal still *%^@.

Lucky I've 90% stopped caring now, that last 10% reaĺly pisses me off though.

Soon the manager merry-go-round I expect, can hardly wait for who next gets the job, perhaps Steve Bruce can save us from relegation in a couple of yrs...

Joke of a club thanks to the American clowns.

Indeed. We needed to sort out our defensive problems and Arteta has done that to a large extent. However, we are painfully slow and predictable as an attacking force. Lacazette starts every league game despite being in wretched form. Aubameyang is one of the best strikers in the league. He has to play as a centre forward. I don't buy the lack of creativity argument. This is on Arteta. We have enough attacking players of quality to be far more threatening than we currently are. Arteta needs to sort it out and I really hope he has the mindset to do it because so far he has been conservative, albeit there have been very good reasons to be so.

We used to lose to teams and I’d grumble ‘but they don’t have better players than us, they had better tactics or they just did the basics well and waited for our mistake’.....now it feels like teams just have better players than us.

I think you could pick the best 14 teams in the league and find at least half of the Arsenal team that would be replaced by their players in all of them.

Not going by names, going by what they are producing.
Watkins is better than Lacazette
Grealish better than Pépé and willian
Mginn And Barkley are better than xhaka, ceballos, Elneny
Mings is better than all Our CB bar Gabriel
I’ll Leave Martinez v Leno out of it
If you made a combined 11 it would be pretty even

Not with you on this at all. The fans wanted Emery out - they got it and at some financial cost no doubt. Arteta purchased Soares Mari Willian all on long contracts. He extended Luis and Aubameyang. Arteta is the manager as seems to have been his wish. They purchased Partey for him. It is not the Kroenkes who cannot integrate Özil and Guendouzi into the team or fail to play Saliba or Marinelli when he was fit. We are no longer a desired destination for players. I am not sure Arteta is improving that situation. I am not yet calling for Arteta to go but neither am I seeing any significant improvement. In my opinion Arteta’s hardline is stopping players from being creative. You can almost see them move to a position and think ‘this is the outside margin of my zone I can’t move forward from here’.

Why leave Leno out of it. Quick decisions by the keeper can make a difference. They did today.

Watkins is better than Lacazette on current run of form only. Aubameyang is absolutely streets ahead of him. I can't believe I had to say that! Barkley is a player who produces 4 or 5 excellent performances every season. Over the course of a season he is not better than Xhaka or Ceballos or Willian. McGinn isn't either. And we also have Partey, who is a level above. Our fullbacks are miles ahead of theirs. We also have Saka. So far Gabriel has looked a fine player. Direct comparison with Mings...Holding is about there and Luiz is much better than him. As I said already, Grealish is brilliant and would walk into any team in the top 6. But we have a vastly superior team and squad to Villa. There is a reason they barely stayed in the division last season. The fact that we are 15th in the PL in terms of goals scored, while having one of the best strikers in the league, is largely down to the manager.

Sorry mate there is no way Xhaka and ceballos are better than Barkley and McGinn. They over ran Liverpool in midfield and us today. I won’t disagree we probably have a better squad but we have an absence of quality midfield players and it’s that that’s killing us right now.

There’s no creative hub for us and nothing that Arteta can do about it until he brings in new players.

Spot on dec. I agree with everything there. Arteta had to sort out the defence and has done well in that respect. I think you’re right about our alleged lack of creativity. As others have said we probably have more creativity in midfield than Liverpool. We just create fewer chances. Has pulling on an Arsenal shirt made Willian lose the creativity he had in a Chelsea shirt. No, he can’t have lost his ability to see the balls required to create chances, or his ability to provide them. We also have Saka, Pépé and Ceballos all of whom can create.

In short, I think we could sign Brady and Hoddle in their mid-twenties and we’d still lack creativity because of the way Arteta is shaping the team to play. I’ll go even further, we could sign Platini and Zidane at their peaks and we’d still lack creativity. The idea we simply lack creative players is a red herring, in my view. A myth that’s, understandably, come from getting fewer chances. But as you imply dec, we don’t. It’s the way we play, our set-up, our formation, or whatever way people want to put it. That’s down to Arteta. I’m not calling for his head, by the way. I want him given more time.

But this idea that we lack players capable of being creative is a nonsense. By the way, I was intending to leave any posts about the game until tomorrow. I think it’s too easy to get over emotional during and after poor performances which arguably makes some attach blame unfairly. Not everyone has done that today, but looking through the large number of posts on the Villa match, I do feel some have.