They have just gone down to 10 when conceding a penalty. Now 1-1

I dunno what score I want here. Newcastle losing could continue them on a down spiral

Scary isn’t it, that we are now thinking in these terms?

It’s horrible. I feel sick thinking about it. I should be grown up by now and not let this bother me. But it does. I’m growing older but not up!!

Who was the last failed big signing we made who we moved on quickly. Even if it was at a loss. I know it’s easier for richer clubs to do this, just sideline the failed signing and buy another one, but we just seem to suffer these bad signings until their value and confidence just runs to zero.
Other clubs move on more quickly or the change in manager gets a tune out of the new player.

The table is truly frightening. I’ve never seen anything like it before. 4 points above relegation and we are stuck in a losing rut. The players don’t look like they’ve given up on Arteta, but I really hope the board are discussing potential replacements because they’ve only got one shot to avert a footballing catastrophe. Assuming we struggle in the next few games I’d imagine only a win against West Brom can buy Arteta more time.

It’s all very well Arteta asking for more time but you don’t get it if you take the team into a relegation scrap.

Arteta claiming we dominated the game. Possession does not equal domination. If he truly believes some of the things he says, he must go. Not sure whether we are trying to put in 50 crosses a game as our tactic or has that now changed.

I still don’t think we’ll go down, but today was the first of three difficult games out the way (albeit with zero points). What concerns me more is how we do in the four less challenging (on paper) games after that against the type of clubs we could be fighting with to avoid relegation. Do badly in those four games (less than four points) and I think we’re in big danger.

What would happen if Arsenal go down? Arteta will presumably (or definitely) be gone. I’m undecided if that’s a positive or negative. If he’s incapable of keeping our current group of players up then it’s arguably a positive as I genuinely think Mr Allardyce (I’m still refusing to call him Fat Sam) would have. Does Arteta take a dislike to individuals like Guendouzi and Saliba and ditch them regardless of their abilities? If so that doesn’t sound like good man management for a football boss.

Will relegation make Kroenke sell up? If it does, I would see that as a positive. We’ve been declining for a number of years and he’s the one consistent factor over that time. We’ve had new managers with Wenger and Emery going; we’ve had new coaches with Bould and Ljungberg going; we’ve had new executives with Gazidis and Sanllehi going; and we’ve had new players with too many going to remember them all but including the likes of Ramsey and Iwobi. But Stan hangs around like a bad smell whoever else comes in and out over the period of decline under his ownership.

Ralf Rangnick is not currently employed. The best thing Arsenal could do right now is go and employ him as a technical director, director of football or whatever job title you want to give him. And ask him to put in a plan to totally overhaul the club. Trust him and do it

Would you take relegation if it meant Kroenke sold the club to an ambitious owner who invested heavily in the club?

No.

No. We’d be forever reminded of the relegation and how we didn’t deserve anything we got post that, just as we do with Chelsea and city.

It is possible to turn this around but a lot of sensible decisions need to be made. We’re still a huge club. People often argue what defines a ‘big’ club, size of fan base is probably the best indicator in my mind and we will have that. That’s in our favour for returning to where we want to be.

Ceballos- I don’t even want to hear people say we should buy him. That is one bright spot - end of the season he goes.

No. It's not impressive at all. If we drop to 17th or 18th, will Kroenke allow relegation to the Championship. Time will tell.

If after we played Fulham on day one. Would you have believed anyone who told you that after 14 games they would be only 4 points behind us.

Is Leno the right keeper for us?

I doubt that would prompt Kroenke to sell. Kroenke is focused on the club's valuation. Unless the valuation of the club dropped significantly and looked like it won't go back up then he'll sell. Kroenke has owned clubs who struggled badly in America and held on to it. He only sells dying businesses (like his shopping malls).

Yes, I’d say he’s the least of our problems. Indeed, I don’t even see him as a problem at all, little or big.

I certainly wouldn’t. After that first game I felt Fulham would probably be this season’s Sheffield United. Credit to Fulham, they’ve given themselves a fighting chance of staying up, whether or not they end up being relegated.

I would say even relegation wouldn’t prompt Kroenke to sell. You don’t sell assets from a position of weakness unless you need the money. He’s increased his fortune during the pandemic. He’s more likely to sell from a position of strength to maximise his profit. He’s here for a while yet I’m afraid.

I hope the lawyer we brought onto the board, Tim Lewis, is looking at replacements for within the club structure. I would think this transfer window is very important for not only Arteta, but for Edu and Vinai too. I think if they *%^@ this one up, the whole lot of them could go. And deservedly so. The structure at this club is utterly shambolic.

Barca presidential candidate Laporta has pledged to make Bellerin his top target, the numbers involved say £22m plus add ons. There is nothing to dislike personally about Bellerin he carries himself well, speaks well and represents the club well but....he has regressed on the pitch and if we can get offers like that for him I think we need to let him go.
Really that goes for pretty much any player in the squad we receive at least a market value offer for

Good morning all. At what point should Arteta be replaced?

We have Brighton, West Brom Newcastle and Crystal Palace coming up. If we are still where we are after those games adios amigo.

Whole club from top to bottom is a dreadful mess.
We have all seem this coming. It started with the lack of ambition and the acceptance of the 4th place trophy, when we were sold the lie of "competing with the likes of Bayern Munich".

It continued with the inability to replace world class players with anything other than second rate, mentally weak passengers.

The old board sold us down the river (and we all knew it at the time).

The absentee owners are shocking. They seem not to care enough to manage the club properly.

Gazidis backed Raul over Sven Mislantat. And this seems to have allowed a chancer to line the pockets of his cronies at the expense of the club.

Ridiculous wages for below average players is a situation that is eating away at any achievement culture we once had.

The poor handling of the wage cut has driven a wedge between staff and players.

Emery was a poor choice and so it appears was Arteta. I feel they were the only candidates who would accept the financial reality that the owners gave them. I am certain that when other managerial candidates informed the owners of the overhaul that was needed they were then side lined and more pliable candidates were chosen.

Clearly Arteta has lost the dressing room. The question is simple. Who can get the current bunch of below average, overpaid wasters to finish the season above 18th place. That is the limit of our aspirations.

This team is not scoring enough goals to avoid relegation.

You win titles with a strong defence. To avoid the drop you need goals.

Not sure when the next win is coming.

I am no longer sure that they will last that long or that I trust them to spend the money wisely or that Arteta is capable of integrating successfully any new signings into the current squad.
Starting to believe we are *%^@**. The performances are just awful. The first 30 minutes at home to Southampton was dreadful. An absolute shocking display from a team that seem to have gone on strike

They need to do the dirty on him and get a top quality b****** lined up to step into his shoes before sacking him. There us no time for a caretaker and a long recruitment hunt

How many points will we get from those four games?

John1 I don't know where you got your figure from but it is a long way out. Anyway they are so out of date they are irrelevant. They happened, try looking at current figures. it was an unknown pandemic, at least of those that died only 42 were unexpected deaths or not linked to just covid. All sad but true.

Forgetting football as I am want did you see the pictures of the people trying to get out of the South East?

Do they not realise that they won't be able to come back till tier 4 is lifted

As you all know I have harboured doubts about Arteta for a long time now, even last season nothwithstanding the FA Cup win.

That said, despite these reservations no one wants him to prove me wrong more than me because at the end of the day all any of us want is to see Arsenal successful.

I feel the FA cup run and win last season and a few of the wins over top 6 sides papered over the cracks a little and some of his selections, his man-management, his tactics and subtitutions and his apparent favouritism towards certain players have been questionable to say the least.

I'd love the current malaise to be the early career teething problems of an enlightened young manager but is is hard to see that at the moment.

Given Arteta's age and affiliation with the club he would obviously be the perfect manager for us if his methods were proving right but they aren't at present and are a long way from doing so. There isn't really any glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel either, no crumbs of comfort so to speak.

My guess is that he stays until the end of the season but even if he does go soon I do not see the likes of Allegri taking on such a project or Poch with his Tottenham ties. Both are awaiting bigger things anyway.

It's a mess.

I can't see Aouar wanting to join us now so if we do make any January signings they will probably need to be more under the radar types where we can avoid competing with more successful and attractive clubs.

Come on Edu, there must be some great young South American talents out there. With your contacts now is the time to prove your worth.

Not sure they would be the type of player to prevent a relegation.

Kroenke bought us for the same reasons he buys shares on the exchange. It wasn't for sporting reasons. He didn't buy us for the same reasons non Americans buy football clubs. As onerous as Roman was he bought Chelsea to win things. As onerous as Usmanov was, he got involved to win things. Name any onerous owner and the one thing you can't deny them almost always is they wanted the glory of winning things.

It is not why the Glazers and Kroenke bought their respective clubs. We are numbers on a balance sheet for Kroenke. Even the LA Rams are. Remember, he sold out his own home state with the Rams. So it makes me scratch my head when I read gooners complaining he doesn't care. What? Of course he doesn't given what he did to St. Louis. As teen girls say in L.A. "Like...duh?!" Our board should have sold to Usmanov if there was a Scylla and Chayibdis choice between Usmanov and Kroenke. Kroenke is the more pristine in terms of background but Usmanov would have been infinitely better in terms of caring and investment into the club and commitment to win things. Let's be honest, the board chose Kroenke because Dein was tied to Usmanov and they were never going to let Dein back into the club. Ever. Out of anger and spite. Deserved anger since Dein brought both into the club.

Emery wasn't a bad choice. Canny at the time. He was a successful, trophy winning manger that built a team that were sometimes 'giant killers' with hidden gems. In theory, given a chance at a big club, he could work within the financial constraints and get better players due to our name recognition and in London.

Arteta wasn't a bad choice as well at the time. 2nd to arguably the best or at worst 2nd best manager in the world. Knew the club and culture. Had initial success. Remains to be seen if he can come out of this rut but he was not a bad choice in terms of what we were looking for. Wenger wasn't a manager of a big club when he came to us. Well, I wouldn't have called Monaco one of the giants of Europe for the pedants on the forum. And we got him from a Japanese club. He was similar to Emery. Punched above his weight in his league. He turned out okay for us.

As my mom used to say 'Champagne dreams with beer pocket money'. That's where Arsenal are with wanting a top manager. All we are now are a name from yesteryears, poor team and in a world class city in the best league. That isn't going to get world class managers lined up outside the door. We are a major project right now and wrought with issues. It's not coming into Real Madrid or even Liverpool before Klopp. Man Utd looks a better place to manage right now. The Glazers are many things but they open their wallets.

There seems to be a lack of leadership among the players. I read a story that big Tone called everyone together when we lost to Newcastle (I think) in the 2002 season. I've not heard of any players meetings so far. Why haven't the captain(s) called a players only meeting to air differences and figure out what is wrong? Paddy did it once in a while when we were playing well.

Going back to ownership, I said this years ago. There will come a time when an owner is going to have break the budget, go against all prudent financial reasoning to spend on players to improve the team and get out of a mess. This is one of those times. Kroenke has a strict budget for us. It doesn't matter if we are first or fifteenth. This precise moment is why you don't want someone like that as owner. Owning a football club is about putting them in a position to win things, even your own expense at times.

Good piece AG.

There have been some behind-closed-doors player meetings or heated discussions by all accounts. Not that its done much good.

However much people want to blame Kroenke for all this we have spent big in recent seasons, we've just spent badly.

Not many on this forum who will remember the two seasons when we flirted with relegation in the 1970s.

But thinking back to those days we had some fighters in those teams who through sheer skill, grit and determination would not let our club go down.
Oh for an Alan Ball, a Geordie Armstrong, a Pat Rice, a John Radford and even a Jimmy Rimmer or a Brian Kidd

True.

Perhaps Per would consider pulling on his boots again.

I'd take Fabregas or Ramsey back for a quick fix right now. It may be time to swallow a bit of pride and see what Özil can do.
We are desperate. The most desperate I've seen us as a fan. Admittedly, 20 years or so is a drop in the ocean compared to some of you who have been around in the '70s and '80s when we had some truly dire years and even that one season in the '90s when we were awful.

Partey and Martinelli coming in should give us a boost. By the way, where are we with Partey? We should start lookin at some of these young, hungry players like Balogun. Gabriel coming back. January may be a turnaround month.

I saw a comment last night that Arsenal have lost a generation of fans due to their current demise and its true.

How many young kids around the world are picking Arsenal as their club to support, not many I would suggest. How many young Arsenal fans wearing Arsenal shirts are out there compared to those of other big clubs.

How many superstar players do we have whose shirt is a magnet for young kids. Aubameyang maybe but who else?

We've lost our way big time and its costing us on and off the pitch.

Not to mention the speed of the decline.

We’re royally *%^@**.