Taking Özil off when he ws our best player must rank as one of the most stupid managerial decisions I've seen in ages.

Özil was a positive, as was Martinelli.

Enjoyable as the game was I can't really say anyone else really impressed me. Willock scored a cracker but was pretty poor really. Saka did little and should have been hooked on the hour mark.

The back four were awful, individually and collectively.

Thank goodness Liverpool played a weak team because it allowed us to compete even though the concept of defending is completely alien to our players.

Wasn’t humiliating at all Niall. It was a great game that we didn’t win.

It was was pretty poor in the end, DHD, to end up losing a game we have really should have seen out. Our defending, or lack of, was embarrassing.

It was probably our best chance of a trophy.

I wouldn’t want to put that level of performance up against Man City. Chance of winning that trophy beforehand was the same as it is now.

Look at the team sheets, DHD, how far have we fallen.

Wasn’t the greatest Soc and I’m disappointed for Willock and Martinelli who scored great goals, but I’ll lose no sleep tonight.

Jaysus those goals we conceded were bloodly awful.

Bad mistake Mustafi. Ho ho who called it?
Chamberlain strike, Niles dozing, Martinez questionable position.
Martinez shocking on the 4th has to save that.
Fifth one, poor from Saka no attempt to stop cross, Martinez poor again too.

Awful goals. Gifts.

When we moved to the Emirates our youthful league cup sides looked like a mini-me. Arsene set them up the same way as the first team and there were some exhilarating performances.

Unfortunately Emery is doing just the same. He is out of his depth and so both teams are a disorganised rabble.

...err in comparison to when? We ain’t a great team. We haven’t been for many years.

Ages? Been a while since you tuned into Arsenal, then Soc....

In comparison to Liverpools. Ours wasnt far off first choice outfit.

Even by Emery's lofty standards it was stupid.

I expect very little from the *%^@ cup but I enjoyed that game.

I do truly hate the competition though and that hatred is far more deeply engrained (think ‘68 and even worse, ‘69) than the relatively recent though almost equally despised (round our house anyway) Europey Cup.

One for you oxygen-thieving coffin dodgers: Unai sounds like a Michael Bentine caricature.

What a mental match. I loved the Özil back heal to set up AMN and of course Willock's goal. Also Martinelli looks like a proper prospect. As DHD says, the result while annoying is definitely not worth losing any sleep over. I wonder whether Özil will finally get to play on Saturday?

The only possible reason I can offer for taking Özil off is that he's not played much full games and the worry was his legs would get too weary to soldier on.

The bad news is we lost, the good news is we scored 5 goals at Anfield. We threw the game away, we should have closed it out. But our central defense and team defense was always going to be a weakness. Oxley-Chamberlain must be laughing himself silly at being sold and thanking his lucky stars.

Regarding central defence, Mustafi will presumably never be a first choice regular again, unless a new head coach comes in who rates him. Sokratis is getting on and is approaching past it, although he was never that good even at his peak. Luiz passes the ball nicely most of the time (definitely not ‘all the time’) but is not a good defender, especially at his age 32 when he’s even older than Sokratis.

That leaves Holding who at 24 is no longer a kid and should be approaching his peak. Sadly he is not at the top level. If Arsenal aspire to challenging for the top trophies, he is not at the standard required for a first team regular. He’s good but miles off great, and should be a squad back up a club chasing the top honours. If the lad we’re getting from Saint Ettiene is going to be a first team regular, then we need to sign someone to play alongside him week in, week out. Holding can be used for the cups and to cover injuries. He is not at the top level.

thanks

May be a day late by now but a belated happy birthday from me too.

Agreed but Liverpool will say the same about our goals
1st - gk pushes it back in to the danger area and Saka was left completely unmarked to shoot
2nd - Origi beaten too easily by AMN
3rd - lost the ball in their own 3rd
4th - terrible back pass by Milner
5th - Willock allowed to run unchallenged for 20 yards right through the heart of midfield

Morning Bern,

I've never really seen where the hype surrounding Holding comes from. He's decent on the ball and good in the air but he's not the quickest or the strongest and I really do not see him as an elite CB.

We need another top quality CB asap.

Interesting to see how Bellerin embraced the captaincy role last night, a cynic might say only an idiot wouldn't have seen the importance of putting on a good show as captain in this game.

I actually don't think Bellerin or Holding have played that well since coming back, it is understandable given how long they were out for with a serious injury and might not have been fit enough for a proper pre-season. Injuries that they had have in impact over 2 seasons

Hi Rich,

Bellerin looks tailor-made for the captaincy but unfortunately, as you point out, his performances since his comeback are a long way from being convincing and so we can't yet put him in the first team.

I hope that we are at least exploring the possibility of bringing in a top quality CB in Jan. It could be the difference between 3/4th or 6th.

Morning Socrates. That sums things up. It’s why I’ve called him over rated in the past. He is not even another Willie Young, let alone another Campbell, Adams or Keown. As I implied, he’s okay as a squad back up for a club chasing the top honours. He is not a first team regular at that level.

What hype?

No-one has said he's brilliant. The positives were his FA cup final performance and his form, which was good, before he got injured. Not a single person has hyped him beyond that as far as I can see. What there has been is a call to try different personel all over the pitch because of the abject form of the current incumbents. I like the look of Holding and am keen to see how he develops. I liked the look of Xhaka and I was waiting to see how he settled in as there seemed to be a lot of upside to his game potentially. That ship has sailed... My liking of him meant I gave him a bit more time than some before I formed a solid opinion on his clear unsuitable-ness but I see nothing wrong with wanting to see how a player turns out.

As you say Holding didn't play well, if you don't mind my hyping of him, I'll wait til January to see if his form picks up before I say he's just ok as a backup.

We've got Saliba coming in which will colour CB decisions I doubt highly they'd be able to get someone like Upamenco in in Jan.

On this occasion it was obviously Socrates that used the word hype. In the Chelsea final he played well but was nowhere near as good as Mertesacker. One assumes that’s why Keown calls it the ‘Mertesacker final’ rather than the ‘Holding final’. I think any reasonable form has lead to claims he would improve things dramatically once he returns to the side as a first choice regular. I assume that’s one of the things that has made anyone use the word hype. For although I don’t recall ever using that word about him myself, I have big doubts he’ll make such a difference.

Holding and Bellerin getting grief on here before they have even kicked a ball in the premiership after coming back from cruciate’s. Great stuff

Why don’t you criticise them after a run of games. They are coming into a defence containing 2 Actual real life clowns.


Let’s have a go at them despite them having Kolasinac on the left (how many goals come from his left flank!! ) and the exploding clown car that is Mustafi.

Who knows if Bellerin can recover as well as he was before but he’s not a bad player.

I still think Holding is one of the best 2 or 3 centre backs at the club. Gary Cahill only really broke onto the scene at 25 and Holding is 24. Still time there. Is he world class no but he could be great if played with someone decent.

Centre back is a weird creature, they come in pairs. I enjoyed Tony Adams book when he talks about his defensive partner and his favourite being Bouldy.

I think any decent player would look bad next to Mustafi though.

Did they play today?

I don't actually care if he did a double single digit salute to the crowd while doing the can-can. As long as it helped him understand the basics of field position or any kind of spatial awareness.

Hey Doc. I think you need to check your telly cos I've been mystified at nearly every starting line up for the last 12 months.

Advice to Emery...
1. Pick a 1st 11
2. Stop pissing about with the formation every single week
3. Get a defensive coach and train the squad in how to play without the ball for the next 2 months. Tell the players: Do not dive in, don't try and get too close when isolated in misfield, just get in front of the attacking player to impede progress and wait for backup.
4. When in attack, get the ball forward quickly and do it in the most efficient way possible. Don't care if you pass from the back, throw it, lump it upfield, just make a call and get it forward. If you're going to cross you don't need to hit the goal line. Curl it in, nice and early off the point of the 18 yard box will do just fine.
5. Take a *%^@*** shot! Let the defenders be petrified of another incoming missile. Let them dive in and get tugged out of position.

My advice to Emery would be a lot shorter than that. Two words to be precise.

As for a captain, look no further than what Tierney did at the end of the match last night. When some of our players want to make a quick getaway post penalties, he called them all back to salute the travelling supporters.

The other day Rich mentioned Čech being the last Arsenal keeper to save a penalty (which was against Watford’s Troy Deeney). Does anyone know who was in goal and who we were playing when the one before that was missed against us? Leno hasn’t saved one so it won’t be him. Nor has Martinez even with last night’s shoot out. So my guess is before Čech, it will be either Szczesny or Fabianski.

It was probably Big Dave against Sampdoria....

No Lehman v Valencia was after

But I think Bernard is right and fabianski might have got one. Also I recall almunia Saving one

Was being slightly ironic there......Almunia saved one against Tottenham didn't he?

Well as I say, I'll wait til he's further than one start in after coming back from a cruciate knee ligament injury after 9 months out and starting next to Mustafi who TG describes quite rightly as an exploding clown car before I come to the same conclusion as you, which I think is premature and harsh. But each to their own.