I agree about England. But as to whether both teams play tonight - I thought France and Denmark would as well. That game was a disgrace. I can only see France, Brazil and England as potential WC winners. Yep with a bit of luck England could do it - Kane could get them over the line.

Spain did not look great but I suppose they could improve.

I wouldn’t rule out Croatia.

England will lose at some point. The best we can hope for is the semis and a Dunkirky loss that we can go on about as if it was a victory because heroism etc. Then there’s an “Irish” loss which is all the fault of injustice and we can paint murals and kvetch about it for the next 1,000 years.

Also possible that one of Japan or Senegal knock us out when Maguire gifts them the ball half way up the pitch and essentially we commit national suicide for no real reason. The “Brexit” loss.

Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Russia and Mexivo are the only ones I'd rule out at this point. Sneaky feeling about Argentina - they've looked crap so far but if they get their act somewhat together there's enough individual quality there to go all the way. Portugal has Ronaldo obviously. Colombia aren't through yet, but I expect them to win against Senegal and they could threaten anyone in the knockout phase, and so could Uruguay.

This could shape up to be the best World Cup in many years.

I think England are doing ok but I would suggest that something hasn’t come to light yet and that’s the keeper has a major *%^@*** blooper in him. He’s a good shot stopper but has a tendency to charge out of his box. It’s not really getting much of a mention yet because of the progress

Even Switzerland ...

Senegal looking very good I think. Just lacking on the final pass.

Surprising tournament isn’t it. They’re out (on yellow card count)

Very sad to see Senegal exit, although glad to have Japan qualify for the next round. One of the most interesting way to qualify and exit.

England didn't qualify. It was a great tournament.

Although I can remember tiny bits of 74, 1978 was my real first. Loved staying up late with my dad watching Argentina in particular.

It certainly is interesting and full of surprises. But the African showing was very poor. Only two wins in 15 games and no African teams in the last 16 for the first time since 1982, apparently.

Surprise surprise Gareth plays his second string............

A very interesting situation. Both sides want to finish second - Belgium hold the advantage by 1 yellow card. England simply cannot score or else the Belgians will simply stop trying to score themselves. It would be hilarious if it's still 0-0 with 15 to go, expect to see a battle to pick up yellow cards ensue.

We need to lose to get an easier route through to the final. Belgium just need to draw.

They do look like they're trying to win but I'm finding the game extremely boring and that's something I rarely say.

Excellent play by the Belgian defender there to pick up a handy yellow.

It's bizarre.

Have I missed something? I thought the ITV commentator said if England win the group they play Japan, whereas the second place team (currently Belgium with the yellow cards) will play Columbia. I'd expect England to beat either, but I'd expect Columbia to be more difficult.

The way the groups have turned out, one side of the draw looks much stronger and the group winners will end up in that half with Brazil, France, Argentina, Uruguay, Portugal.

I think the use of yellow cards as a qualification method is terrible. Toss of a coin or drawing lots would be better than this.

Thanks. That explains it.

I don't go along with that line of thinking. Brazil or Germany would never look at it that way.

Indeed. Arsenal of the last few years have been dreadful. Spain, for all their tremendously skilful players, were far from exciting when they went in for the false 9 nonsense.

But those two are extremes. The current incarnations of Barca and Real are great to watch. There are dozens of sides we could look to historically, not least Wenger's teams for the first decade.

I just don't like the pressing game. I don't see it changing any time soon either.

Me neither Dec ... I usually only watch half an hour of a replay while having my breakfast but I find the soccer served up generally a monumental bore , when pressed back the ball goes to the goalkeeper , passes exchanged back and forth across the back reminiscent of Wenger at his best .

So many wayward overhit passes , any contact at all results in someone writhing on the deck in agony .

Play held up while the ref galloping across to look at the screen is hysterical .

Why don't the blow flies sitting in the VAR room make the decision .

But I don't think we played a pressing game under Wenger. We played a boring possession game very similar to what you describe with countless passes between the defenders. In other words, possession that rarely threatened the opposition goal. In recent years, Arsenal were not a pressing team.

I'll be honest and say that even when Barcelona were at their peak with Iniesta, Xavi and Messi at their best, I didn't enjoy watching them that much. Daz mentioned Heynckes' Bayern and Ferguson's Manchester United earlier, and at their peak I enjoyed watching both more than Barcelona at their best.

dec, if you're so anti the pressing game, what are your thoughts on Torreira? Because from what I've read of him, that seems the style of football he's most suited to.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/without-su ... ble-breaks

Smart man, already marketing himself to the fans. Takes a lot of humility to want to do this. Something which was immensely missing from our former manager.

Too much Sauvignon on offer Bernard ..? ..... read it more closely ..." when pressed back "

The norm these days is under the slightest pressure ........ don't hoist it forward where you have the vague chance of scoring

No No No ....it's a la Wenger back to the goalie and then two dozen safe passes get the defence comfortable ....

I bet Pat Jennings and Bob Wilson wouldn't have received the ball as much in their entire careers as Ospina and Courtois get it in one game .

dec said "I just don't like the pressing game." You replied "Me neither Dec" and despite saying "when pressed back" you went on to describe a style of play that sounded to me more like a possession game than a pressing game. To me a pressing game is getting players to challenge the opposition player with the ball quickly, not team mates passing simple balls to each other, as happened in the latter Wenger years.

It's hardly like Barcelona didn't press when we played them, we couldn't hold on to the ball for more than two passes...

I think Kiwi's rum is stronger than your sauvignon blanc. In any case, he isn't making a lot of sense. Not necessarily the rum of course.

The pressing game surely has to do with what a team does when it doesn't have the ball.

Yes, Barcelona did press while playing a possession game. The two styles of play can be combined. But Wenger's Arsenal didn't seem to, focusing on the possession side of the equation.

Glad we’ve given Chambers a new 4 year deal. Whilst he has struggled I do think there’s a decent player in there somewhere.

Fair point .... let me clarify that .....I don't like the pressing game where we are the ones being compressed ....... and we do the ring a ring o' rosie at the back because we haven't got any presence in midfield .

yes yes .... who cares about soccer ......... surely the All Blacks any day now ... must be ready for their annual run - amok v the Voortrekkers

As you know I largely agree with you on this. Wenger's Arsenal didn't really press and the possession side of things - certainly in the later years - was often sterile beyond belief. People are rightly going crazy for Messi's goal against Nigeria but it came from a lovely long ball not possession passing etc etc. I will never ever understand why people would prefer to see endless tiki-taka rather than a defence-splitting pass like that or how they can possibly think it requires less skill.

Just to clarify, when I say possession football I am not talking about tika taka. Barca were magnificent in their heyday but mainly because Xavi, Iniesta and Messi were astonishingly good. I'm talking about the type of football that Arsenal used to play. Milan 90, Liverpool in the 80s, Man U in the 90s, the young Ajax team that won the CL, Bayern of a few years ago, Real Madrid since forever, France and Holland 98, Brazil 2002, Spain 2008, Germany 2014. I could go on.

What I dislike is the Gengen press and variants. I just don't get any enjoyment from watching it.

If it's the Klopp type intensive pressing game, then I won't enjoy it.

I'd say Klopp's Liverpool are quite entertaining to watch, like his Dortmund side before that. Nothing lasts forever in football so the pressing game will probably fall out of favour sooner or later. But in the meantime, I don't mind watching it.

I haven’t found this story on the official site. Cost us 16 mil I believe & yet to see any justification for him being near the first team. If it is true there is a contract extension & Emery thinks he is good enough & can radically change his game then I would give him one year before jettisoning him from the club. Why we would give him 4 years without him showing any signs of improvement is not good business where I come from.

I must say with pre season training just days away I am totally underwhelmed by the players coming to the club. Long term planning lacking IMO.

Locking young English players into long term contracts is good business and whilst clearly he has struggled he does seem to have some quality. I just have a feeling he will age like wine rather than milk for some reason. If it doesn’t work out he can be sold for a decent fee.

Underwhelmed by the new players ? Decent new keeper to replace the ageing Čech. Super experienced back up for bellerin.

Then potentially a tough looking tackling midfielder and experienced cover at centre half coming in that’s yet to be announced.

Whilst we don’t seem to be chasing 50 million pound superstars it seems like we are enhancing the overall squad which is required as we are a little short of bodies in certain areas.

I wouldn’t call it underwhelming and would describe it as practical and logical rather than thrilling. We could have a very different team next year.

Banega plays for Argies