You will be very disappointed when VAR is introduced because the same officials who make stupid decisions often make the same bad decisions even when looking at a replay. The Aust experience has been terrible. One week the marginal offside is given and the next week not. The ref calls it as offside on a goal & the goal is still disallowed because there is no clear evidence to overrule it. But the actual exact same scenario and the goal is alllowed by the ref and it stands. One week it is a hand ball in the area and the next week it is not.

Very disappointed with Aubameyang pen. On the amount he is paid he had better make a difference in all the remaining games this season because he could indeed cost us a CL place. Would have made such a difference to be within 1 point of them. Instead, we are still well behind them.

Wonder if there will be any mention of Sanchez kicking out at Koscielny as the players lay in the goal mouth at the end of the game? Clear violent conduct and should get a retrospective 3 game ban.

The game is a farce because we have inconsistent refs, inconsistent decisions on what is reviewed and what isn’t and then inconsistent decisions even on things that are reviewed. And then to add a final slap in the face there are things the ref made the wrong call on in the game that can’t be reviewed irrespective of if everyone sees it is a clear red card offence.

I’m sure there will still be deacrepancoes and inconsistency BUT the awful and obvious decisions will be corrected

Think Emery deserved a lot of credit for today. Without the officials interfering it should have ended 1-0, and it wouldn’t have been a smash and grab 1-0. It would have been a good tactical plan that actually led to us having the best chances and restricting spurs to 2 shots on goal all game

I look forward to you having the same positive attitude when we have a goal chalked off for SFA and then they allow a dodgy offside goal against us and we lose the game.

Classic MOTD show two arsenal fouls for discussion but don’t discuss Rose studs in to Leno’s chest or no mention at all of Sanchez kicking out at Kos in the dying seconds.
I’ve long felt MOTD tailor highlights to try to make one sided games appear more balanced but I hate the way a manager mentions a foul and if they like the manager it is scrutinised.

It was a bad foul from clash but a clear yellow no more. Rose should get whatever Torreira gets whether you think it’s red or yellow.

Sanchez is a straight red absolutely no doubt

Also no mention of the ridiculous Rose dive

Of course I won’t be happy but does anyone really think VAR is going to do anything other than make more crucial decisions correct in the game?
There will always be debate on a penalty because it is down to the opinion and interpretation of a person. Offside isn’t. It is a matter of fact, so VAR clears up a lot of those

No surprise to see certain papers totally twist the narrative of yesterday.

I’ve read that Kane’s pen was completely correct because Kane isn’t offside until he plays the ball so the foul happens first. (Nonsense, he’s offside as soon as he makes an attempt to play the ball)
I’ve seen them say Xhaka should have been sent off and completely ignoring Rose and Sanchez indescretions.
I’ve also seen no mention of encroachment from vertonghen- just applauding him for showing greater desire to make the clearance

So from a game where the 2/3 biggest decisions went for spurs people are reading that spurs were harshly done by and deserved a draw at minimum.

Utterly bizarre

I was watching the game with a relative who adopted Arsenal (because of yours truly) and I said "He will get the penalty saved".

When I have seen him taken PKs before I was underwhelmed. He is not a confident kicker. He stutter steps in Hope's of sending the keeper the wrong way before striking the ball. All a keeper has to is stand his ground. I would have preferred Özil. He actually places the ball and the keeper has to guess perfectly. I'm hoping Aubie becomes like Dennis and gives up that responsibility.

I would have taken a draw before the match but we ended up throwing away 2 points on 2 known things. First, Mustafi will hurt you and second, Aubie shouldn't be near the 12 yard spot.

Why does noone take a punt on Zaha. He screws us every time he plays and gets some spectacular goals.........

Obviously a frustrating result. A victory would not only have boosted our top four chances, it would have been really interesting to see how the totts dealt with pressure of being hauled back into the top 4 race. As it stands, getting top 4 is going to require a very strong run from someone. At least we are showing some decent form at the moment. The defence looks much improved, and our wide players are proving very effective too. Right now I would put our chances at 50/50 based on our form over the last month and the Sperz wobble.

Man U did when he was younger but they had no patience with him. He’s a better player now but is still inconsistent and needs a better attitude when he is constantly fouled - he lets it effect his game, players like Messi and hazard don’t react and just use their football to punish the foulers.
I like him but his price would be way out of our reach

I think Tottenham are right back in the battle for top 4. They have to play both City and Liverpool. They have some players struggling for form, including Eriksen who is their most important player, in my opinion. It's bloody annoying that we let them off the hook yesterday. Next week's game against Man Utd is huge. We need to beat them.

Not sure who has the easiest run in of the 4 teams chasing top 4. We only have Man U at home left of the big teams but we have some really tough away games left to play. We’re going to need to pick up wins away to the likes of Everton, Leicester, Watford

A hardware issue has been resolved for the forum at the web hosts end overnight.

Hopefully that will fix the servers downtime that we've been experiencing lately.

Walcott again completely ineffective in an Everton game. We did well to get £20m from them last January.

Ah that’s good. It’s been problematic for quite a while. So fingers crossed eh?

Thanks Rog.

Assume the team for Rennes will include some rotation. Torreira and Aubameyang will start because of suspensions in the league or Europa. The rest will depend on what Emery wants to do v Man U. I expect Özil will start v Rennes because Ramsey will come back in with Lacazette for the Man U game.
AMN or Jenkinson should play v Rennes and really we should be seeing a first start for Suarez

One thing we need to correct is that when we play well in these big games we need to win them! Liverpool at home and Spurs away - better team in both games and did enough to win both games.

Often you come out of big games with a draw and it feels ok because no ground was lost but points in big games has been our problem for years. Man U on Sunday is a must win game if we want to get top 4

We are not at the stage yet, where we can win the majority of big games we play well in or play better than the opposition. It's not where we are right now. We don't have the players that can close out a lead. Especially defensively and our team defense was great for most of the match but we are still a 'Mustafi' away from giving up a goal with the players we have.
Also, our mental strength isn't there yet. It's better than when Wenger was in charge but we have gone through a period after that run that has eroded whatever confidence was gained during that run of unbeaten games.
We have the manager, we just don't have the money to bring out the best out of that manager.

He's rattled. In the space of one week he's gone from being in a 3 horse race for the title to being in a 4 horse race for the top 4. And his halo has slipped cos of the very visible verbals he gave the ref at Burnley. Not such a gentleman now is he.

If they miss out on the top 4 it will be hilarious. I wonder what the media reaction would be after 4 years of worshipping Pocchetino's every move.

Such a shame we didn't take the chance to really put the pressure on him. Still we've gone from 10 points behind to 4 points in a week. Lets' hope we can keep it going. Away results have to improve.

Would you prefer Arsenal 3rd in league and Sperz 4th,
Or Arsenal 4th (having to face a CL qualifier) and Sperz 5th.

Sanchez to face no action for his kick out at Koscielny because the referee saw the incident at the time and decided no action was required.

This is farcical. The ref needs to be suspended then, because if he saw the kick and deemed it not even worthy of a yellow card let alone a red then he is incompetent. Much more likely is the FA don’t want to stir up any further issue, an issue that hasn’t been highlighted and repeated by the press, and choose their defence by saying the ref saw it.

Spurs could/should have been handed bans for pochettino, Kane, Rose and Sanchez in the last 3 game but nothing has come from it. Where is the consistency?

Interesting. The right answer is usually ‘forget your rivals, finishing as high as we can is the primary goal’, finishing 3rd is straight in to the CL which makes summer transfer plans a lot easier and gives a bigger pool of CL money next season. It would also be amazing for Emery to finish ahead of The other 3.

The alternative is hilarious. My only reason for that option is that one way or another, because of their wealth Man U and Chelsea are always going to be in CL places battle. Spurs with their over budget stadium, potentially star manager and players leaving could be really up against it if they don’t get CL - a few years of no CL and having to finance stadium debt could put them in long term decline and therefore leaving only 5 teams battling for 4 CL places in the future.

Weighing it up, I’d still pick us for 3rd.....(and spurs to get KO in the qualifier!)

They are all reasonably charming when winning. One upside to our bloke's chaotic English is that it really is hard to tell what he is saying. Can't ever see him getting punished for post-match comments.

We wouldn't be having this debate at all if we just accepted the decisions of the officials on the day. True, there are inconsistencies, but no way is TV coverage unbiased. Some commentator or a producer often ends up raising the importance of an incident, which then gets replayed and replayed and commented on by people in a studio who have no formal role in the game at all. Unless it is an absolutely appalling action by a player which goes unspotted, I don't want to see anybody banned based on post-match TV "evidence". I do think it is a different matter to give the officials a chance to reassess cards they may have given in error. That often works out fairly.

Completely agree on your tv point. FA bans seem to be handed out to those instances that the media peddles the most. It also helps if it is the only game on at that time or day and has been a live TV game rather than a standard 3pm Saturday game.
Officials re refereeing key decisions is effectively what the review process is except it is an independent panel rather than the same ref who gave the original decision who may be more likely to stick with what he gave on the pitch so as not to admit to have got it wrong.

Inconsistency is key. There will always be inconsistency between one ref to the next because it’s how they interpret the rules as many are subjective. You’d hope the variation would be small. Then you hope that the same ref makes the same decision across different games, but even this can be inconsistent. Then you want the same ref to call the same incidents within the same game. Each of these is more infuriating than the previous when you are the victim of inconsistency. Finally there is the review process which should be the process with the least amount of inconsistency as there is time to review and to look back at precedent of punishments before.

One thing that is certain is that the England captain is beyond reproach and will never gave any sort of charge and will always get favourable decisions on the pitch

Ffs Sky just reported John Moss is reffing our game with Man U.

One thing he loves is tolet the game flow and ignore any kicking we're taking.

If Lacazette was upset by his treatment at the hands of Spurs wait till Man U get at him.................

Surely that will not be necessary after VAR is introduced, there should be no need for appeals for post match referrals as they don't help the opposition on the day.

It's not just Kane the same was true of all England captains in the past.

Var will also result in more consistency as refs will sill be analysed post game and their inconsistencies will be highlighted.

Lastly having seen the kick by Sanchez al it merited was a yellow definitely not a red, same with Xhaka's foul on Kane.

One thing I do wish for is that our players stop these stupid fouls or at least watch how the opposition do it and not get caught every time.

AS I have said time and again VAR will not fix all the problems and I predict it will actually add to your anger with football. The same incompetents are sitting in front of a TV monitor and you have no idea what coverage they actually review.

Let me give you an example I have seen repeated time and again in the A league. If a player breaks thru and the lino raises his flag and the whistle blows then the chance is gone. So linos are encouraged not to raise the flag and let it proceed even though they believe it is offside. The goal is scored and awarded. The lino has his flag up they review it. But the refs awarded the goal and so unless there is clear evidence they were offside the goal will stand. Then we review and it is one of those where only his trailing foot is onside and guess what anything can happen. Sometimes it is a goal and sometimes not. Plus what about the first example the lino thinks they are offside and raises flag and whistle blows. I have almost given up watching the A League for this reason.

The other day a player thru and as he shoots the lino raises his flag. He scores as the whistle is going. It is no goal and play continues but when we see it again guess what he was onside by a mile.

If you saw anything of the Asian Championship then the award of penalties for pushing or pulling in the box was farcical as some were given and the next game a Torriera/Rose like tackle in the box was not awarded.

Plus we have had reviews in rugby league for years and don't get me started on some of those. I have gone from wanting VAR (or each countries equivalent) to not be convinced.

People kept saying there will be teething problems. The baby will be at working age before this is a great system. The system takes silly amount of time and ruins goals as well because there is often muted celebration. Welcome to a whole new world.

Then we start kicking them too .. problem solved

And get Mustafi out of the game, I think he has his own agenda

I have never wanted VAR Gaz. Just play the game and as long as the officials are honest and doing their best live with their decisions. Some go for you and some don't. End of story.

So forget completely the so blatant decisions that are obviously wrong?

How ridiculous.

First off I did say the offside law needs changing so that there is a definite gap between players.

I know I would accept decisions taken by the checker but if the checker makes repeated mistakes then he should be censored.

Some sort of technology has to be used eventually. The situation at present is utterly ridiculous.

There are two issue that tend to get conflated.
1) really byzantine laws, like the offside law, and 'laws' that are massively open to differences in interpretation such as what is or isn't a penalty, red card, etc.
2) what the technology can do, and whether the use of technology always has to interrupt play.

The more opaque the rules, the more refs and assistant refs will be inclined to bottle decisions and, for example, let VAR make the calls about offsides.

You deal with that by 1) taking the absurd elements out of the rule and 2) by having a system which scores officials on decisions reviewed (like in cricket). Those who bottle decisions will end up with very low ratings and will end up lucky if they get a gig refereeing 2nd decision matches in Bulgaria.

With regard to the technology: I would favour a system like cricket with
a) a very limited number of automatic checks (eg checking goals, penalties awarded, and cards). For yellow cards, there is no reason to stop play: just rescind the card as soon as reviewing panel sees the footage showing it is invalid, or upgrade to red if that is clearly the case, or or order the card to be given if it wasn't.
b) two 'reviews' per 45 minutes for each side. The captain can review anything not covered by a). A penalty shout not given, a offside decision incorrectly given (indirect free kick), a foul, even a bad call on the ball going into touch.

And as with cricket, leave the benefit of any doubt with the officials.

Imagine it:
Home players mob ref demanding penalty, home crowd baying for it. Ref "so are you asking for a review?" Players "never mind".

No English refs in Champs Lge games because we're not using VAR. Taylor classified by some moron as our second best ref wtf?

Some good points Decaf but the better reference is Rugby which has far more arcane and indeed opaque laws, yet their VAR system works really well. In my experience, it actually adds to the atmosphere and enjoyment in the stadium. The big differences are:

- the on-field Ref is still the main man

- he's not necessarily in total control, because he can be asked by his linos or the video ref to look again at incidents, but he has a very definite influence, indeed he has the final word.

- he can ask for a review of an incident, framing the question to limit the scope of the review.

- he can ask to have another look at the incident and can decide himself whether he's made an error. This to me is the simplest and most blindingly obvious way out of the mess that's developing.

And all the time, the crowd are aware of what's going on and can watch and listen to the debate, because Rugby Refs are miked up and their comments are heard by all.

It's transparency and public awareness that sets football apart from other sports, most notably Rugby and Cricket.

Excellent point about transparency. Rugby has always been better behaved a few sending offs to teams facing up to the ref and they will stop.

Also think value of yellows should be reconsidered in red or 2 yellows situation. What about an orange where dangrous play is involved.

Arsenal have conceded 22 penalties in the league over the last 3 seasons. A league high by some distance. These are the culprits

3 Xhaka
2 Čech, Bellerin, Mustafi, Holding, Monreal
1 Koscielny, Chambers, Mkhitaryan, Martinez, Gabriel, Coquelin, Maintland-Niles, Sokratis, Kolasinac

It would be interesting to see how many of those pens were unarguable, debatable or simply never should have been given.

Either way I think it’s clear to see we are particularly clumsy