You should be surprised - he's still 26!

Martin Atkinson....

In all seriousness, it was as clear as day, and far clearer than the one for Watford, which my Liverpool supporting mate was adamant was a bad call. I can't really make up my mind about it, but Čech made it irrelevant.

Good to see a convincing win. But still want Wenger out asap.

Saw some comments that Mhikitaryan basically said the fans who didn't turn up today were not real fans (in different words ) then you get this comment ....

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger said his team had to "get the fans back on our side again" after ending a run of three successive Premier League defeats with a fine win over Watford.

..well listen Henrik and Arsene I'm sorry but you'll never get them back on board. Never, the boat has sailed and this is 22 years in the making the so notion the fans are not entitled to their view or bad fans is *%^@*** ridiculous

Didn't you then?

This is where you have people disagreeing with your quite reasonable position of wanting Wenger to move on - because he’s clearly had his day. It had not been 22 years in the making. When the team was doing the double and winning the league unbeaten we’re all calling for his sainthood. Most everybody wants him replaced but rightly some have been picking up on the over egging of the anti-Wenger pudding over the years- without actually disagreeing with the overall sentiment of thinking we need a change. Why the easy to pick apart falsehoods?? People just damage their own argument. If you are wondering why Wenger has had such support over the years maybe think about the hyperbole used in denouncing him. 10 years maybe. 22? Not a chance.

Having said that, I dont disagree with you.

Unfortunately I had computer problems and was only half watching. I did see him make quite a few sideways passes and only one forward pass of some length. I saw him make a run with an attacking payer but heard and read many negative comments about his play.

On recent form I think he's a busted flush and needs replacing as soon as possible but as far as todays performance goes I will bow to the opinions of others.

Nope your wrong 22 years in the making.

He was the same manager when we were winning titles and he was still not coaching the defence just simply that the players were a different type of professional that he inherited as well as an extremely well drilled club.

The 3 titles he won in the early years provided false confidence in allowing his longevity at the club. That wouldn't have allowed him to continue to the mess we are sat in today.

So in summary your wrong the position we sit today is 22 years in the making that happened to include 3 titles along the way. It didn't go wrong after 10 years, he's always been the same person and manager who stumbled on a successfull formula for a period of time.

Apparently young Nelson threw a strop, as he as waiting 10 minutes to come on, and he chucked his bib on the floor, don't blame him one bit, 3-0 game was won, and not for the first time Wenger didn't give the youngsters a chance!

Flowers would last about ten seconds in your summer temperature of minus 20 .

Only seen the highlights plenty of firsts Čech the penalty . Mkhitaryan premier league goal . Welbeck's first clean strike .

That's two wins in a row , thought pre match Deeney would upset our applecart .

Not sure about their penalty .... where were our defenders supposed to go ... just part and let him through ..?

He won’t be playing in a euro final unless Ospina is injured

Been reading Marcus McGuane's comments after his Barca debut about how he waited for his chance and it never came. And how Wenger never spoke to him in his many years at the club.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Nelson walk like McGuane and Chris Willock.

Fastest 50 in the Prem................

Yeah and I’ll be furious when a new manager comes in and does everything wrong as he wins a double and goes a season unbeaten with a completely different defence. Get him out we’ll all say. Except we won’t because winning is the only thing people measure success by and it makes a host of other things better along with it.

You don’t have to airbrush out success to say it’s all gone to crap. Which it has.

I couldn't agree with you more, Ash.

"Happened to include 3 titles along the way" is so grossly unfair that one is inclined to take Wenger's side against such nonsense.

Also, there was nothing wrong with what Wenger said today. What Mkhitaryan said was questionable, but he had every right to say it.

It's not airbrushing out the success at all I enjoyed our early success as much as anyone I'm simply saying there was an underlying problem lying in situe throughout nobody was aware of from the start till the end.

Are you joking ? He had zero right to say it.

He's been here 2 months, we've been here all our lives.

Yes freedom of speech is his right. Just as it will be our right to call him a f...en joke if he puts in even one shite performance on the money he is paid. I think he has already gone missing in a few games & been great in others. One thing is he has f all appreciation of how far this team has tumbled and the top prices people pay to watch them.

Hmm... so just because they feel they deserve to be given a chance, Wenger should play them?

Wenger was arrogant with "his" fans, when the going was bad.
Now he wants to extend an olive branch?
You cannot have the cake and eat it, you wanker.
After so many embarrassing defeats, and really poor performances, you expect one good victory against a "outside top 6" team, to win back your fans?

Shkodran Mustafi has been added to the Injury Room - Groin Strain

He has suffered a groin strain injury and he is estimated to spend around 3 weeks on the sidelines.
The average time lost for this particular injury is 12 days, based on a sample size of 18 injuries of the same type.

Sometimes being the fastest at something isn't a good thing as I'm sure my missus would attest to.

Well said Ash. The bullhooks spouted about Wenger only having success on the back of inheriting a defence totally ignores the fact he put together the invincibles. It also forgets that Graham's unit was widely regarded as being well past their sell by date before Wenger arrived.

A major reason we are where we are is lack of investment on the playing side, which for any long term Arsenal fan should be nothing new.

There are many reasons to want Wenger out but to refer to his 3 titles as simply 'something that happened along the way' is a bit silly. Those three titles are more than some teams have won in their entire history.
Prior to the stadium move he was a genius manager who won doubles on a budget with wonderful flair. Since then he has increasingly become a dysfunctional manager who has presided over Arsenal's slow and boring decline.

Nope, it's a contributor but not the overall reason.

How can you explain Leicester winning the title then? Tottenham being above us

Speaking of defence and investment, I hope a new GK, a couple of defenders and a defensive mid will be our manager's priorities this summer.

I'm not sure I agree that it's only recently he transformed into a increasingly dysfunctional manager, I think he's always been the same guy but the formula that worked to bring such huge success in the early years didn't later on because time had changed and he didn't change style.

The point I'm making isnt so much to deride his achievements which in the early years were significant and fantastic but to simply say that he's always been the same manager, same person with the same stubborn attitude and it just isn't working anymore.

Wenger changing his playing style and philosophy. We always look better defensively when the midfield is dominating middle of the park. This doesn't happen as much in the post-Vieira era with our skillful midgets getting bullied and received no protection from refs.

Leicester can be discounted as a once off. Spurs have spent more than us so that doesn't count. The fact that the purse strings have loosened somewhat in recent year is besides the point.

The point is that I would argue that Arsenal plateauing after 04 then declining from about 08 onwards is absolutely to do with under-investment on the playing side. Players like Cole, Campbell, Vieira, Pires, Bergkamp, and Henry moved on and we went to the bargain basement to look for replacement. We were perpetually one or two class players short of having a really formidable squad. United never did that. Fergie always made sure their reinforces were top notch. How much of Arsenal's parsimony was due to enforced austerity and how much to Wenger thinking he could pull rabbits out of hats, I'm not sure.

Hang on a minute, you seem to be suggesting that philosophy, tactics, players and organisation seem to contribute to the results of football matches. Clearly that must be a mistake

Erm now i am not sure what point you are making anymore.

Not at all Parker .....he inherited rock solid defenders who knew their main task was to DEFEND , then the best centre half in the world at the time Sol Campbell decided to join us , sure he bought well Anelka , Henry , Pires , Vieira so no -one should poo hoo his achievements for that period but a case could be made with Bergkamp , Overmars , Pires they were fabulous artisans already .

no amount of Wengerisation [ make Bernard happy ] could alter that .

Imagine telling Bergkamp he should play the rubbish little triangles we specialise in these days

Where he has totally lost the plot of late is not due to lack of investment

He has bought midgets and decided no goal should be scored before a four thousand pass build up .

He absolutely changed style. Take a look at the footage from any season prior to 2006 and you will see a team that moved the ball on very quickly. It wasn't one-touch stuff either. It was control and pass, or what has been forgotten to a large extent is that we had plenty of attackers and midfielders who would actually take on and beat a man. Obviously, we had tremendously gifted players, most of them brought to the club by Wenger, but we also had players who were good but not very top level (Freddie, Parlour, Edu, Lauren, Toure, Wiltord) who contributed greatly and part of that was due to the style of play and the coaching from Wenger. I would say that every single one of them would struggle if you put them in the current team. Edu might be fine.

It changed considerably once Fabregas became the focal point of the team, even though that 2008 side was a very good one. Since then it we have become less and less direct, aping a Barcelona style that we just cannot replicate.

I also think Wenger has changed considerably as a person. Again, look at the footage of him on the sideline in 1998. The guy was brimming with confidence and completely self-assured in his approach. These days he just looks haunted as he frequently runs his fingers through his hair and stares at the ground.

I acknowledge the change in style in terms of our play but I believe it was an organic growth contributed by the type of players we signed (think nasri, cazorla, Hleb etc) and actually the lack of coaching rather than a different tactical approach. Also I think kiwi made a decent point in that many of these players only ever knew Wenger, and your not going to tell a player like Bergkamp or Campbell what to do.

Wenger has never been mister tactician I think it was a consequence of everything going on not a proactive change. I just can't see Wenger rocking up in training one day saying "alright lads let's start playing like Barcelona"

Agree with your last point, he looks a shell of a man these days. Exudes zero confidence

I'm not trying to put down his magnificent achievements early on but Kiwi is right, history will show that once all the original Arsenal influence before his tenure left the club he floundered miserably. After the invincibles finished and Martin Keown, an Adams coached Ashley Cole and ray parlour who played 12 games that season left he was never able to reinvent the team.

Greetings Top Gun. I don't think I said he only recently transformed into a dysfunctional manager. My guess is that the move to the new stadium was the turning point in the teams downward trajectory. However, its hard to be precise because the decline has been very gradual yet clear over time. In hindsight what seems most obvious in terms of his team development was the move away from recruiting dominant, strong players particularly in midfield. Is that an example of Wenger changing his approach albeit for the worst?!

Hi mate. You said increasingly dysfunctional, seems recent. For a long time our transfer policy has been very negative and reactive and I think we just acquired player who were of a certain build because that's who was available. Then as an afterthought he now realised he needs power and pace hence signing Aubameyang and Xhaka.

The tippy tappy seems a result of lack of direct coaching and lack of Confidence on the part of the players to play a decisive final ball.

It was a bloody huge 'contributor', do you really think a large percentage of those early signings were his first choices, or just maybe he had to take a bit of a punt because he was unable to secure his preferred targets?

The lack of investment was more an historical point and an important one, I'm sure we would be in a different place now if the Club had backed him more a decade ago. Agree of late he has amassed an inordinate amount of dross. My gripe was more with the nonsense about his earlier incarnation, remember AW was the one that converted Lauren into a very effective full back; promoted Cole to the first team; persuaded Campbell to make the leap of faith; turned Toure into a cb and capped it off with the fruit loop between the sticks. I would say that was quite a demonstration of how to build a defence.