Yes but I'm not a student who can be seen off with a bit of lofty condescension followed by pronouncing the topic closed (after you've had your own lengthy say on it).

I think it is very clear that the nature of the debate and the use of the word "cynical" (as opposed to "contemptible" or "dangerous") was not supposed to imply that I considered them the worst or most vicious people in the world but was referring to our understanding of what drives their decision making.processes. In the case of PL footballers money and status are, it doesn't seem too outrageous to suggest, primary factors and loyalty pretty low on the scale of things. It was OF COURSE this to which I was referring and only stubbornness of Bernardian levels allied to a slight chippiness at being questioned would prevent you from acknowledging that. From cynicism over their motivations to their worth as human beings was an elision you introduced and, as if half aware of the discordant note of such hyperbole, threw in "estate agents". This would have been legitimate and indeed the joke for which you may have been striving but obviously you couldn't resist passing up the opportunity to also have a swipe at your betes noires - Zionists (ben-Gurion? Netanyahu?) , conservatives, white supremacists, and all Americans who voted in the last election - a blatant category error.

The tendency to withdraw into rebarbative truculence when challenged (while whinging about how argumentative the other person is being and shouting "have the last word") is one with which I am very familiar but by this stage of the game nooses, sheep and lambs come into play.

Just as a final point (albeit one I am more than happy to discuss further because, while busy, I think it's rude to assume you may not wish to reply or have an argument worth consideration), my Venn diagram with gunfire probably contains more overlap than with those inspired by Lenin. It would include not treating human beings as dispensable units in violent ideological fantasies of human perfectibility.

Actually, I was enjoying the conversation, and my only concern is frittering away time when there are summery things to do. But I'm still here so let me try to bring this to an amicable end. What we are arguing about rhetoric as well as other matters. I agree with you that hyperbole, hair-splitting, throwing big words around, deliberate conflation and other cheap tricks (including the silent treatment) are not good ways of making a point, unless preaching to the converted. I plead guilty to using some of those tactics on this forum. But, since you keep raising the issue, I would like to assure you that one of the lessons I have learned in life is not to use such tricks in the classroom/lecture hall.

The Benevento v Milan match and the story behind Benevento is what keeps me drawn to football despite my seeing it changed before my eyes since I become a fan a little over 20 years ago. The top division in many ways looks nothing like the game and league that I fell totally in love with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwG0PltZBM

Gosh!

As a complete side-note I have moved house a lot over the course of the years and have often wondered why estate agents get SUCH a bad rep. Sure there are some pirates as with all professions but most of the ones with whom I have worked have always seemed decent and likeable young people with a cheerful sense of humour who work hard for their living.

They're not the Khmer Rouge!

They serve no purpose what so ever. Why not just advertise your house online like auto trader or something and when a price is agreed instruct solicitors.


I know people who have had estate agents refuse to tell them about higher offers for their properties because it wasn't the winning horse the particular estate agent wanted to back for a quick sale.

They are just a nothing self serving industry that could be dropped in 5 minutes with numerous viable alternatives.

Advertising on line can land you in deep horseshit if you don't have your wits about you and also there are some solid gold nuggets out there .

Estate agent in Kent we rented off said " I shouldn't tell you this because you are very good tenants but interest rates are low at the moment ; if I were you I would take out a loan and buy ....he organised an interview with a friend he knew in the mortgage business .

We got the loan , bought a house three doors away from our original renter .

We paid 21,000 three years later we decided to move back to NZ ... went back to the same guy he said " I reckon I can get 46, 000 .

We had offers of 39 ,000 42,000 but he stood firm and got the 46 .

So having paid bugger all off the principle we pocketed 25 grand minus his small fee .

The Kiwi dollar was on a downward spiral at the time , think we exchanged at 3. 02 so we ended up with about $ 72,000 all but paying in total for a house in the poxy little country .

I'll be for ever grateful for his advice

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/42219327

So Clattenburg essentially admitted that he didn't enforce the rules of the game to avoid the potential negative reaction from Tottenham.

They serve no purpose what so ever. Why not just advertise your house online like auto trader or something and when a price is agreed instruct solicitors.


I know people who have had estate agents refuse to tell them about higher offers for their properties because it wasn't the winning horse the particular estate agent wanted to back for a quick sale.

They are just a nothing self serving industry that could be dropped in 5 minutes with numerous viable alternatives.

And how did all that end.

Not far off the mark. I tried to be a consultant once, using my knowledge of finance to help small businesses via a couple of councils. Scheme was well intentioned, and I got good feedback from my 'clients' who said that my help was 'clear, down to earth and at a level which makes sense to me'. However, according to the consultant in charge of the project (from one of the giants), my feedback was neither 'technical enough' nor did it 'fit the criteria of the scheme or the standards which are expected of consultants', and so I was denied payment. Despite the fact that I saved each client at least £500 (a not insignificant sum for a small business), and saved one nearly £3000.

There may be an element of sour grapes in my thinking, but I prefer to dwell on the fact that of the 6 clients I dealt with, 5 still phone me for advice and I count 4 of them as friends.

The whole consultancy industry is too far back up its own backside to be the practical help that many small businesses need - too much emphasis on theory and technical stuff, and not enough on the practical stuff that gets the job done, or solves the day to day issues that holds them up from progressing.

Sorry if this has been covered already but why am I seeing articles on line that are borderline blaming Bellerin for pogba’s red card!? Yes it is an unorthodox way of tackling and yes pogba will miss the Manchester derby but surely the press aren’t that one eyed and desperate for a title race that they can’t see only pogba is to blame for an over the ball tackle?

If you need to know how long it takes for Wenger accept he is totally wrong - it is over ten years. Ten years of total and absolute waste.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/04/arsene-we ... y-7132445/

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/42219327

So Clattenburg essentially admitted that he didn't enforce the rules of the game to avoid the potential negative reaction from Tottenham.

He had a stretch of three years where he averaged 10 goals per season from a wing position, before injuries slowed him down and our new formation made him redundant. Never world class by any stretch of the imagination, but hardly a waste of space either.

.... lofty condescension , cynical , contemptible
......their motivations to their worth as human beings was an elision ... the discordant note of such hyperbole ..... betes noires

The tendency to withdraw into rebarbative truculence ...... dispensable units in violent ideological fantasies of human perfectibility.

Advertising on line can land you in deep horseshit if you don't have your wits about you and also there are some solid gold nuggets out there .

Estate agent in Kent we rented off said " I shouldn't tell you this because you are very good tenants but interest rates are low at the moment ; if I were you I would take out a loan and buy ....he organised an interview with a friend he knew in the mortgage business .

We got the loan , bought a house three doors away from our original renter .

We paid 21,000 three years later we decided to move back to NZ ... went back to the same guy he said " I reckon I can get 46, 000 .

We had offers of 39 ,000 42,000 but he stood firm and got the 46 .

So having paid bugger all off the principle we pocketed 25 grand minus his small fee .

The Kiwi dollar was on a downward spiral at the time , think we exchanged at 3. 02 so we ended up with about $ 72,000 all but paying in total for a house in the poxy little country .

I'll be for ever grateful for his advice