I thought it was a pretty even game really in a match where we were up againest a probably superior opposition and did well to win by a tight margin.

Who is going to tell Messi we will no longer need his services this summer?

I'm not totally satisfied with the defense but its improved. Our first choice back 5 right now: Leno, Bellerin, Holding, Gabriel and Tierney is a pretty good back 5.
But they can't do it alone. All the successful clubs play good team defense. I'm hoping Partey gets a run of games in front of the back 5. With all fairness to Toreirra we could actually use him off the bench or even starting some matches. Right now, I mean. It was still a wise decision to part ways (yeah, I know he's on loan).

I'd rather the attack be the one to improve than the defense. You can always nick a goal with some luck or pluck but if the defense sucks you are in jeopardy till the final whistle. Almost no lead is safe. We have good attackers. I contend its the midfield. Both the defense and the attack is linked by the midfield and its not able to transition between both.

I watched City and Liverpool a bit closer than I have. You don't see too many backwards passes. They go forward much more than they do sideways or backwards. Almost the opposite for us. I am hoping Ødegaard can add something. He's finding his way it seems. He's not quite sure what his role is I think just yet. The clips of him before he always seemed to be driving forward. I've seen him do more sideways and back passes than his all his clip (albeit the clips are cherry picked but still).

Let's quit the mucking around and bring back Fabregas for a year or two.

Him and Partey? Match made in Gooner heaven.

I thought we were comfortably the better team after Chelsea scored their early goal. No way was it backs to the wall, not the way I use the term anyway. We thoroughly deserved the win.

The point your trying to make seems so marginal I don’t have the energy to respond.

Pal Dardai [Hertha Berlin manager] on Matteo Guendouzi: “He is a young player. It’s like he’s in puberty sometimes, rebellious. You have to know where the limit is. He has to learn, learn like a beast.





.... yeah took 4 months

I think the rebellious side of Guendouzi isn't necessarily a problem if you have a group of senior players and leaders who can bring him in to check and use that rebellious streak to our advantage.

Guendouzi had his best (or at least most influential) games for us when we were down in a game and he was leading the charge to fight us back in to it. We were on top and so the tactical and positional side of the game could be pushed to one side in the name of 'going for it'. It was great to see but not a position we want to put ourselves in.

My problem with Guendouzi has always been two main things
1) he lacks the physical attributes I want for a central midfield premier league player. Power and Pace. And he isn't going to get those any time soon
2) and this is more nuanced but for me he doesnt seem to have a picture of the play in his mind before he receives the ball. He is more a head down and play the way you're facing sort of player. This leads to getting caught on the ball or not realising he can turn and drive forward. If you watch peak Fabregas play he is constantly scanning every part of the pitch, even as the pass is being played in to him. Part of that skill is having a perfect first touch that you don't need to concentrate as much as the ball arrives at you. Fabregas was always looking over his shoulder, he knew what pass he was going to make before the ball arrived. It is that constant scanning of the pitch I don't see in Guendouzi - it can be learnt but from my experience watching football the very best at it already do it naturally from their early teens.

Not half as marginal as the extent to which we deserved to win that final.

Raphinha at Leeds is some player. £17m from Rennes. That’s the sort of scouting we need to be doing. Unheard of but a seriously good player - a bit Mahrez like. Worth double what they paid for him.

Oops. Back in the bottom half of the table then.

We're doomed. Relegation scrap here we come.

I think its fair to expect a middle ground, claiming that its shameful/disgraceful the way others have is a bridge to far for me.

Arteta's tactics against the bigger sides tends to be focused on defensive solidity and hitting on the break. Conceding in the first minute really puts paid to that tactic. Who knows why Arsenal are caught out early so often.

Latest Tuesday club is a good un. Quite clear Davies doesn’t rate Arteta much.

I do get it. It’s simply not good enough in terms of results but the sad truth is we aren’t a top 4 club anymore and you won’t get there with a midfield of El Nenny Xhaka and a loaner. I really can’t put that on this manager, they were suggesting we should have got Ancelleotti but he has spent a shitload of money Arteta hasn’t had.

It’s hard to digest really but it’s all a bit *%^@ and I don’t think there’s much we can do about it.

I really wish they got rid of the stupid away goals rule in Champions League matches. It basically guarantees that the home team will be focussed on defence at the expense of any attacking endeavour. Chelsea v Atletico was a ridiculously boring match.

Agree with this summary. Room for improvement in attack but I'm happy with the improvement and not being defensive weaklings.

I think we should have modest aspirations this season. A couple of good signings in the summer and I think we could push for Top 4 next season. Champions the season after that.

We’re a Stan Kroenke club. Wilts paid us a visit recently. He puts things in a somewhat extreme manner, but I think his overall point has a lot of credibility. People want a big turnover of players. Okay, I’ve little doubt there will be more departures. But for me a big turnover implies lots of arrivals as well. I’ve a great deal less confidence that side of the equation will happen.

Where I think your own enthusiasm about defending Arteta will be undermined relates to your continued insistence on picking out Xhaka for criticism (I noticed you picked him and Elneny out in your quoted post). I think Arteta loves him. I can’t prove it, but I reckon he’s the first, or at least one of the first, names Arteta puts on the team sheet.

I still remember you saying words to the effect that Arteta taking off Xhaka early against Liverpool suggests he’s seen the light (as you perceive it) and implying Xhaka’s days are numbered. I genuinely think you were hopelessly wrong about that. I really don’t see Xhaka being one of the first names on the team sheet as changing anytime soon, unless Arteta moves on by either his own choice (getting a job at another club he wants to join) or not his own choice (getting sacked).

If Arteta stays, I feel we’ll see a lot more moaning about Xhaka by you because not only has he got a contract until 2023, the year when he has his 30th birthday so he isn’t that old, but I honestly believe Arteta will insist on Xhaka getting a contract extension. If, or when, that happens I’ll be fascinated to see if you remain as supportive and defensive of Arteta.

I really think it’s Hobson choice Bernard he’s got no choice Xhaka is the best of a pretty average bunch. We’re stuck with him.

El Nenny, ceballos, willock. All nowhere good enough compared to our previous options. (Although personally I’d rather ceballos than Xhaka)

If he offers him a new contract I’d be scratching my head however apparently Arteta came close to selling him to Hertha Berlin last summer. When Partey doesn’t play we don’t have a proper midfield.

In the podcast I mention they rip this piss out of Xhaka. They said in the second half of the first half v benfica they stopped counting when he gave the ball away for the 9th time.

I genuinely don’t think you can get anywhere with a player so poor in the middle of the pitch. However we are a leaky bucket right now and as soon as one problem area ceases a new one is created so Arteta may need to spunk his transfer budget on a new right back or striker. It’s never ending at Arsenal

Btw if you want to see what’s required for a modern day midfield watch Fernandinho and Gundogan on Saturday. Energy, mobility and distribution. They controlled the midfield

Of course I might be wrong. I don’t know Arteta. He doesn’t phone me to say what he intends doing about certain players, or any players. But in my view you’ll have to get used to seeing Xhaka week in, week out for a good while yet if Arteta stays in post. That isn’t even down to Kroenke. My guess is Arteta’s opinion on Xhaka is the polar opposite of yours. My advice to you is this. If Arteta remains in post, get used to Xhaka being used as the engine of the team. Stan putting up the money, which isn’t going to happen, to buy a shed load of new players won’t change that.

EDIT: By the way, what I’ve heard is that Xhaka was keen on moving to Hertha Berlin, but Arteta talked him out of it.

No I think your totally right but it will be more down to budget rather than choice.

Without European football our transfer budget won’t be much more than 70 million a season. That doesn’t buy you much in this market and we need a new right back and striker soon probably plus sign a better back up keeper permanently

The only way out of it is if the club can generate 100 million by selling Torreira, Guendouzi, Nketiah and Xhaka himself to add to the existing budget a fund a wholesale restructure which is unlikely

Also in addition to this I think you’ll see Xhaka play for another manager as Arteta won’t be here in 2023 with the mood of our fans. A “name” will be required soon to placate the restless and then we simply start the cycle again

I was going to say 'the forum' but settings being what they are , ltg or another, when/what was the last big or 'biggish' club that was in a true relegation fight that people thought before the season were too big to go through that? I'm excluding Leeds. So, before their implosion. Forest? Newcastle? Was it Man Utd in the '70s? I am not knowledgeable of how "big" some of these clubs were considered. Leeds, yes. Newcastle? Hmm....yes? Anyone from the '80s?

This covers EPL only: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2039114-what-happened-to-the-10-biggest-clubs-relegated-from-the-premier-league

I would have loved to be around when Man Utd go relegated. I'd have wet my pants in joy (as I do now. )

We've done the first phase of our rebuilding of the squad by simply getting rid of players who no one else was going to pay any money for - Özil, Mustafi, Sokratis.
The second phase is getting fees for players who will still command them.
Players who just need to leave even for minimal fee: Kolasinac and Elneny
Players we need to work hard to sell this summer as they only have one year left on their deal: Lacazette, Nketiah, Chambers
Players who should be sold because they don't have a future with us: Gunedouzi, Torreira, Nelson
Players with protected length on contracts but should be sold for the right price (more bargaining power for us): Bellerin, Willock, AMN

I'm hesitant to add Xhaka - of course if someone offered £50m then we take it, but he seems like he'll stay around.

Realistically can we shift 11 players from the first team in 1 summer? (15 if we include Luiz and the 3 loan players). I've never seen a club turn over that many players. However, how many of those players can take us in to the top 4? How many of those 11 players would be considered undisputed 1st choice? - Only Bellerin. You might be able to make a case for a few of them as squad players in a top 4 side but that is the task that faces the club at the moment.

Even in a stagnated market we should be able to generate £100m easily from that group of players.

If we took a realistic view of not really being able to sell 11 players then you would prioritise the sales of Kolasinac, Elneny, Lacazette, Chambers. Try to get Nketiah to sign a new deal and get him out on loan - or sell him. Nelson, AMN, Willock could all have another season on loan. And I also can't see how we can keep Torreira and Guendouzi. That's 6 players sold with 4 on loan.

Either way it is a massive summer for the club and I can easily see us boosting our recruitment with a couple of loans again.
6 priority positions where we need to recruit
1. central midfielder
2. striker
3. creative midfielder
4. back up GK
5. back up left-back
6. right-back (if Bellerin leaves)

The rumour of the Nigerian interest is interesting. Would just be glad to be rid of the useless Americans.

Could this be the catalyst for much more funds to get top class players?

Arteta says Partey has a final test and is very close to being available for Benfica. Holding won't travel due to concussion protocols.

Rich, you talk of the need to prioritise the sale of Kolasinac even for a minimal fee. Then in exactly the same post you talk of the need to sign a back up left back. Isn’t that exactly what Kolasinac is?

Look, I’m no big fan of Kolasinac and won’t be in the slightest bit bothered if he leaves. But he’s a million miles off the worst left back I’ve seen play for Arsenal. Moreover he performed quite commendably in a more central position when we played a back three. Tierney is the first choice left back, full stop. That isn’t going to change.

So in talking of a back up to him, we’re not going to get anyone as good as him, which Kolasinac clearly isn’t. But Kolasinac is perfectly adequate, in my view, as Tierney’s back up. He’s not great, but he’s not bad. Why not keep him as the back up left back rather than get rid for a minimal fee when we’d probably have to spend as much on a replacement for him?

Manchester City 1996?

(Which they followed by getting relegated again to the third tier two seasons later).

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways - if Xhaka really is as bad as you claim, then our budget won't be a problem because it wouldn't cost much to get someone better than him. In reality, we're most likely looking at at least 30-40m to find someone who can compete with and possibly displace Xhaka. We spent 27m on Torreira and he wasn't good enough to do it, despite being a good player.

Your post doesn’t make sense. You say Torreira cost 27m and wasn’t good enough but say it wouldn’t cost much to replace him.

What do we know about likely up and coming transfers ? It’s likely we will have to prioritise the following....

We know we wanted aour and got in Ødegaard in that same position so that’s clearly a priority above all for Arteta.

Bellerins likely leaving so a right back

Back up keeper

Lacazette out of contract and balogun leaving so probably will need a new striker this summer

(AM,RB,GK,STR)

That’s your 4 players. Where’s the Xhaka replacement coming from we aren’t flush right now?

IF Xhaka is as bad as you say. I don't think he is, and that's why I think it'll cost some serious money to improve on him.

Ok a debate about the cost of transfers which are extortionate

I’m out

Not all transfers are like that though, Everton signed Allan and Doucoure for about 20m each. Now I don't think either is good enough to replace Xhaka, but again - if Xhaka is as bad as his detractors say then they would do if we were looking to improve. Plenty of talents in France and Spain that wouldn't cost a fortune either.

When we curse Arsenal for not retaining young players we rate (like Balogun if he leaves this summer) it is worth remembering every big club has the same problem

Jamal Musiala scored for Bayern last night, he's only 17. From 2011 to 2019 he was in Chelsea's academy. Man City couldn't keep Jadon Sancho, I think he left for about £7m, he's worth 10 times that now.

It is incredibly hard to keep all these players and give them the pathway to the first team at the right time. Even more so now as young english players seem more inclined to test themselves abroad and seem more interested in playing football than picking up big pay cheques.

With Saka and Smith-Rowe we're doing better than most

If we have aspirations of getting in the top 4 the type of midfielder we need will likely cost 35 million plus.

My point remains. If you are to sign 4 other players first and need to borrow money off the government to do so then we won’t have the budget. Xhaka is way down the list and also has little resale value due to mockery he’s made of himself. Quite simply there are fires all over the place we are putting out.

I don't think I rate Kolasinac as highly as you do. When he first came he looked quick and strong. Now he always looks like a weak link with a mistake in him, his passing has gone way downhil, in the games I've seen he was slow and ponderous and adding nothing to the attack and caused me concern in defence.
So getting rid of him and buying a 'back up left back' may seem like a sideways move - but lets also consider he's 27 and on £100k a week. This summer he has 1 year left on his contract. My view is we have two decisions.
1) get him back and use him as a back-up left back for a year and lose him for free (total cost minus £5m wages and any lost transfer fee) and in 1 year we need to sign another left back, or
2) sell him now and buy a young home-grown left back to be back up to Tierney. For example Mitchell at Crystal Palace who is free at the end of this season and whose wages would be half that of Kolasinac (total cost £2.5m in wages PLUS any sale we get from Kolasinac) and we have a 21 year old english left back who immediately has a value of £5-10m on our books
Is Mitchell any worse than Kolasinac?
Going with option 2 solves a lot more long term problems for the club. Option 1 just pushes those problems to next year.
Of course it is easy for fans to say sell X and buy Y, but these are the strategic moves we need to be making to consider pushing for to improve the longer term future of the club.

Didn't know City were regarded that big in '96. Ian Wright's son played for them I recall.

I agree that Xhaka is lower down the priority list to replace. We're really short of central mids when you consider: Ceballos isn't our player, Elneny needs to leave, Torreira and Guendouzi are not in favour and likely to leave, and Willock probably isn't going to make it with us.
That only leaves Partey and Xhaka. If you get rid of all of the players above then we need to be buying 2 central mids and keeping Xhaka just to have good numbers to see us through a season.

It’s a poverty of choice really. Ceballos is the only one remotely good enough but if he starts he seems dead on his feet after the 60th minute.

The “Arteta must love Xhaka because he keeps playing him instead of all our other brilliant midfielders” line doesn’t hold too much water with me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... C._seasons
For 20 years between 1982-2002 (ish) City were a bit of a yo-yo club, with 5 promotions and 5 relegations. Between 99 and 2002 they jumped 3 divisions up, Ever since they've been in the Prem.

They were probably regarded as a big club still due to their past and the number of fans they had including the number who came to games - which remained high even in lower leagues. A little bit like Leeds in that respect.

Two sons (one adopted) did.

It's no doubt tricky with the pandemic limiting our resources, but long term I don't see why we shouldn't be able to build a team. If we compare to what Liverpool did under Klopp; his first summer they signed Mané (30m), Wijnaldum (23m) and Matip (free). Second summer they signed Salah (37m), Robertson (8m) and Oxlade-Chamberlain (35m).

To me, that looks doable - 2-3 first team players, with one of them being a cheaper option. I mean, money was tight already last summer, but we still signed Partey, Gabriel, Willian, Mari and Cédric. Don't se how we couldn't spend 60m in one summer, especially considering the players we can sell to raise funds.