Supporters Forum

Abu · **#472561**

bubblechris wrote:

Some people just never know when to stop.

Accept we all have different opinions for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, let it go and move on to the next subject before you get sucked in to meaningless debate.

That's what I come here for...

Abu · **#472562**

Hazuki wrote:

bubblechris wrote:

Some people just never know when to stop.

Accept we all have different opinions for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, let it go and move on to the next subject before you get sucked in to meaningless debate.

How about you don't lecture others and instead stop with your frequent confrontational posts to AG? I know we all like to poke fun at him every now and then, but you just come across as charmless and rude.

And that. Mostly that...

bubblechris · **#472563**

Might be drawing some criticism from forum members but I think AW deserves to be congratulated on what he has achieved.

I believe we will quickly see that we got the better end of the deal and I am personally happy that we got Mkhitaryan whatever he costs us.

I'm dubious we will get Aubameyang and fear the worst but we are still getting exactly the sort of player we needed to improve the squad.

I'm looking forward to some eating humble pie and likewise I'm ready to go into a deep depression if I am wrong.

All I can say is COME ON YOU REDS........

Decaf · **#472564**

TOP GUN wrote:

Daz wrote:

Would that really be so useless?

.

I'm not sure it would be very useful but might be worth a shot. You never know I could be the next Elon Musk.

.

Somehow brings this to mind ...

https://www.google.co.za/search?q=donal ... e&ie=UTF-8

old man of hoy · **#472565**

gooner7 wrote:

old man of hoy wrote:

I used to have two Doberman Pinschers. Super breed - clever, fast and loyal. Bit like Georgie Armstrong.

Wow, they must have kept you busy and fit. I used to have a Jack Russell / Maltese mix

They did. Up every morning at 6.30 taking them around the park before I went to work. I like Jack Russells - feasome little buggers. Bit like Georgie Armstrong too.

old man of hoy · **#472566**

bubblechris wrote:

Some people just never know when to stop.

Accept we all have different opinions for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, let it go and move on to the next subject before you get sucked in to meaningless debate.

In the spirit of that sensible post I ask, Wiltord or Ljungberg?

old man of hoy · **#472567**

bromley gooner wrote:

Daz wrote:

I'm obviously more at home with the lexical repetitions of a sestina but I can tell a hawk from a handsaw...

Had no idea what a physiognomist was so clicked on Hoys link. I can report to the forum that physiognomy is a right load of cobblers.

Agreed. I can't make head nor tail of it.

kiwipete · **#472568**

Daz wrote:

Gone off him a bit since fingergate tbh. Who doesn't enjoy the odd scratch and sniff but it is one of those few things in life best done alone and unobserved...

Can't imagine Wenger doing it for a whole host of reasons some navigational.

Very wise ...welding processes can lead the build up of a few stalactites in the nasal passages which sometimes need to be discreetly removed but to actual eat them .... Yuk ....that is taking recycling to the extreme . I can't stand people gnawing their fingernails

kiwipete · **#472569**

On Mkhitaryan ...... accidental double post because I was checking whether Warriors M ... k .... routine worked

kiwipete · **#472570**

On Mkhitaryan ..... if he turns to be brilliant ; do we credit Arsene for making a super judgement call or do we say the club and Wenger made an absolute bollox of the transfer of Sanchez and after being 'forced' into taking Mkhitaryan ....we got lucky .

He's got a name more suited to a composer or a chess players .

Hazuki · **#472571**

kiwipete wrote:

On Mkhitaryan ..... if he turns to be brilliant ; do we credit Arsene for making a super judgement call or do we say the club and Wenger made an absolute bollox of the transfer of Sanchez and after being 'forced' into taking Mkhitaryan ....we got lucky .

How about something inbetween? They made a right mess of the Sanchez situation in the summer, but now in January they made the best of a *%^@ situation by getting a good player (who Wenger in fairness have wanted to sign before) in return.

Gaz from Oz · **#472572**

Bernard wrote:

Top Gun, then perhaps you should wait until Wenger writes his book before making such claims. As things stand, I can't see much evidence for what you claim. Also, I'm absolutely certain that when he joined Everton I saw Walcott described as a good (or other positive words) finisher. I'm not saying you said it, but I saw his finishing described positively on this forum. It might interest you that in club football and full internationals, Walcott has scored one goal every 3.9 appearances. Welbeck has scored a goal every 4.1 appearances in club football and full internationals. They both have played most of their football in wide positions. Does a difference of a goal every 0.2 appearances really justify having some people describe Walcott's finishing so positively, while others (or maybe in some cases the same people) describe Welbeck's finishing so negatively? Furthermore, I personally rate Welbeck's all round game more highly than I rate Walcott's which for me more than makes up for the goal every 0.2 per appearances difference.

What allround game from Walcott. His chasing back, his defensive nouse, his crossing. So it isn't that hard to beat Walcott. There was a media report yesterday that a Turkish club were chasing Wellbeck and Wenger said he wanted him to stay. That is his level.

While his failed to raise a comment on here he has no new contract shouldn't we be cashing in now.

As for Aubameyang transfer, apparently Dortmund have discovered that Arsenal had included half the money in food coupons so that is where it is grinding to a halt.

Zed · **#472573**

Attachment:

2018-01-23-12-55-42-.jpg [ 5.27 KB | Viewed 1740 times ]

Alright...knock it off on here. Forget about it. :14laughter:

Gaz from Oz · **#472574**

bubblechris wrote:

Might be drawing some criticism from forum members but I think AW deserves to be congratulated on what he has achieved.

I believe we will quickly see that we got the better end of the deal and I am personally happy that we got Mkhitaryan whatever he costs us.

I'm dubious we will get Aubameyang and fear the worst but we are still getting exactly the sort of player we needed to improve the squad.

I'm looking forward to some eating humble pie and likewise I'm ready to go into a deep depression if I am wrong.

All I can say is COME ON YOU REDS........

We will have a clear chance to compare the figures of mh and Sanchez from here to the end of the year and beyond that time. Is there any chance this bloke can play for 90 minutes not 70 minutes. Goals and assists in the EPL because that is the only common competition we are in. I think both players will try to impress their new clubs.

dec · **#472575**

old man of hoy wrote:

dec wrote:

Four and a half year deal for Sanchez. That's wages of close to £100m. Staggering.

For United it isn't that much.They have been buying glory since the sixties. If they win the Chaampions League and/or Premiership in Sanchez's time they will see it as great business. They've probably already sold a million shirts with his name on the back. To put it in perspective £100m is only a bit more than relegated clubs get as a parachute payment.

Shirt sales earn money for the manufacturer not the football club. Here is a different perspective on it. Man Utd have the most lucrative shirt deal in the PL - £75m pa from Adidas. Almost one third of that will be paid to Sanchez. He's a very good player, but he is not good enough to close the gap on Man City, let alone the best teams in Europe.

Gaz from Oz · **#472576**

So we play City in the final after we beat Chelsea tomorrow.

old man of hoy · **#472577**

dec wrote:

...He's a very good player, but he is not good enough to close the gap on Man City, let alone the best teams in Europe.

True, these days United definitely have a fight on their hands to win the two big trophies. If they don't win the league this year it will be five years since achieving the championship. The last time they had such an infertile period was from 1967-1993. Assuming Mourinho stays, and they continue to buy big, if they don't do it this season, then they ought to in 2019. It is about time they got back to winning ways, though how nice it would be if they didn't. They are not the strongest candidates in the ECL this year, but with a bit of luck in the draw, in Mourinho they have a man who knows how to win that trophy with unfancied teams.

Hazuki · **#472578**

Don't see United winning the league under Mourinho. He's great at building a solid defensive unit, but not much else, and it's going to take more than that. If they get a better manager in they are of course always a candidate for the big titles with their resources.

dec · **#472579**

bubblechris wrote:

Might be drawing some criticism from forum members but I think AW deserves to be congratulated on what he has achieved.

I believe we will quickly see that we got the better end of the deal and I am personally happy that we got Mkhitaryan whatever he costs us.

I'm dubious we will get Aubameyang and fear the worst but we are still getting exactly the sort of player we needed to improve the squad.

I'm looking forward to some eating humble pie and likewise I'm ready to go into a deep depression if I am wrong.

All I can say is COME ON YOU REDS........

His transfer record in the past couple of years has been poor. Mkhitaryan has talent, no question, but it remains to be seen if he will be a good player for us. Our summer transfer activity was way off what it should have been. If we can get Aubameyang in that will be an improvement, but I think Wenger has allowed things fall far too low to have any talk of congratulating him.

Daz · **#472580**

old man of hoy wrote:

dec wrote:

...He's a very good player, but he is not good enough to close the gap on Man City, let alone the best teams in Europe.

True, these days United definitely have a fight on their hands to win the two big trophies. If they don't win the league this year it will be five years since achieving the championship. The last time they had such an infertile period was from 1967-1993. Assuming Mourinho stays, and they continue to buy big, if they don't do it this season, then they ought to in 2019. It is about time they got back to winning ways, though how nice it would be if they didn't. They are not the strongest candidates in the ECL this year, but with a bit of luck in the draw, in Mourinho they have a man who knows how to win that trophy with unfancied teams.

So they haven’t been “buying glory” since the 1960s?

dec · **#472581**

Hazuki wrote:

Don't see United winning the league under Mourinho. He's great at building a solid defensive unit, but not much else, and it's going to take more than that. If they get a better manager in they are of course always a candidate for the big titles with their resources.

Guardiola has created a serious force at City. The last couple of years it was all about Kompany and his fitness. Guardiola didn't sort that out last season, but he has transformed the side this year. It is hard to look beyond them for the next couple of seasons. Conte did a brilliant job last season, but as is the way with Chelsea it looks like he won't last there.

As for Mourinho, I wonder if he can hold it together at Man Utd if he isn't winning. I suspect there will be another meltdown.

dec · **#472582**

Daz wrote:

old man of hoy wrote:

True, these days United definitely have a fight on their hands to win the two big trophies. If they don't win the league this year it will be five years since achieving the championship. The last time they had such an infertile period was from 1967-1993. Assuming Mourinho stays, and they continue to buy big, if they don't do it this season, then they ought to in 2019. It is about time they got back to winning ways, though how nice it would be if they didn't. They are not the strongest candidates in the ECL this year, but with a bit of luck in the draw, in Mourinho they have a man who knows how to win that trophy with unfancied teams.

So they haven’t been “buying glory” since the 1960s?

Strangely enough, they didn't pay big wages in the Matt Busby years. John Giles tells the story of his amazement when he was sold to Leeds, he received a bigger wage even though they were a Division 2 side at the time.

old man of hoy · **#472583**

Daz wrote:

So they haven’t been “buying glory” since the 1960s?

They tried to. They were never averse to spending money. The reason they didn't win the old First Division for so long was that other clubs were willing to go toe-to-toe with them in the transfer market to get the better players. City, Everton, Leeds and Liverpool in particular. Even Arsenal and Forest. That all changed once mass broadcasting and the consequent Premiership millions and billions came along.

old man of hoy · **#472584**

Hazuki wrote:

Don't see United winning the league under Mourinho. He's great at building a solid defensive unit, but not much else, and it's going to take more than that. If they get a better manager in they are of course always a candidate for the big titles with their resources.

What mucked them up last season was the uncharacteristically huge number of draws - fifteen, easily the most in the league. In many of those games United were the superior side but couldn't win. They seem to have got over that obstacle this time, with only five draws and three losses almost two-thirds through the campaign. Normally that would be title challenging form but City have been freakishly good so far. As much as I can't stand the man I don't think Mourinho's management is holding United back.

warrior · **#472585**

kiwipete wrote:

On Mkhitaryan ...... accidental double post because I was checking whether Warriors M ... k .... routine worked

Hazuki · **#472586**

old man of hoy wrote:

As much as I can't stand the man I don't think Mourinho's management is holding United back.

We'll see. I think he'll keep them at the top and they will regularly finish in the top four with him, but I don't see them reaching another level with him as manager. It has to be said as well, the football they produce is pretty uninspiring as well, and with the amount of money they spend there's no excuse for it.

Rich · **#472587**

old man of hoy wrote:

Hazuki wrote:

Don't see United winning the league under Mourinho. He's great at building a solid defensive unit, but not much else, and it's going to take more than that. If they get a better manager in they are of course always a candidate for the big titles with their resources.

What mucked them up last season was the uncharacteristically huge number of draws - fifteen, easily the most in the league. In many of those games United were the superior side but couldn't win. They seem to have got over that obstacle this time, with only five draws and three losses almost two-thirds through the campaign. Normally that would be title challenging form but City have been freakishly good so far. As much as I can't stand the man I don't think Mourinho's management is holding United back.

Jose is generally doing what he does at every new club.
Buying ready made star players for a lot of money
Making sure those players are generally tall, strong and experienced
Phase out any younger players
Play an unapologetic style of football
The next step is usually big trophies......especially as Jose is already talking of breaking the club record transfer fee in the summer

kiwipete · **#472588**

warrior wrote:

kiwipete wrote:

On Mkhitaryan ...... accidental double post because I was checking whether Warriors M ... k .... routine worked

Oh no I didn't .... I clicked M k ....then posted it ...saw it worked for Mkhitaryan , then thought I pressed edit to carry on with that same post ........ but somehow your dodgy system didn't perform as required .

Daz · **#472589**

old man of hoy wrote:

Daz wrote:

So they haven’t been “buying glory” since the 1960s?

They tried to. They were never averse to spending money. The reason they didn't win the old First Division for so long was that other clubs were willing to go toe-to-toe with them in the transfer market to get the better players. City, Everton, Leeds and Liverpool in particular. Even Arsenal and Forest. That all changed once mass broadcasting and the consequent Premiership millions and billions came along.

OK so they were a big club who operated in the transfer market like the other big clubs but underachieved. Their "glory" years were not really based on that at all. They paid a lot for the time for Keane and Cole but the basis of their rise to dominance was a brilliant youth team, an inspirational manager, an understanding of the need for less glamorous players and some very shrewd purchases from Ferguson: Cantona being the best but also players of the like of Yorke and Solskjaer.

The phrase "buying glory since the 1960s" suggests something completely different more akin to Chelsea and City.

AmericanGooner · **#472590**

I know its early and its only been a day or so but Mkhitaryan hasn't smiled yet..haha. Why do I get the impression is he didn't like his end of the deal.

That said, Mourinho has now got a new story for his book. He'll gloat about how he took Wenger's best player in a straight swap for a lesser player and a player he didn't want any more.

old man of hoy · **#472591**

Hazuki wrote:

old man of hoy wrote:

As much as I can't stand the man I don't think Mourinho's management is holding United back.

We'll see. I think he'll keep them at the top and they will regularly finish in the top four with him, but I don't see them reaching another level with him as manager. It has to be said as well, the football they produce is pretty uninspiring as well, and with the amount of money they spend there's no excuse for it.

Yes, a functional manager, not really following the attacking traditions of United, though the acquisition of Sanchez should give their fans some pleasure. At the moment United are certainly standing in the shadow of their noisy neighbours. A meeting of the teams in the ECL would be fantastic, and I wouldn't rule out Mourinho's United coming out on top.

Hazuki · **#472592**

I wonder what formation we'll see tonight. Three at the back has worked really well against Chelsea in the last year, but Wenger must be tempted to continue with what we saw against Crystal Palace. Those first 20-30 minutes was such a breath of fresh air. I'd go with the 4-3-3 again.

old man of hoy · **#472593**

Daz wrote:

OK so they were a big club who operated in the transfer market like the other big clubs but underachieved. Their "glory" years were not really based on that at all. They paid a lot for the time for Keane and Cole but the basis of their rise to dominance was a brilliant youth team, an inspirational manager, an understanding of the need for less glamorous players and some very shrewd purchases from Ferguson: Cantona being the best but also players of the like of Yorke and Solskjaer. The phrase "buying glory since the 1960s" suggests something completely different more akin to Chelsea and City.

We are running on different tracks. All I am saying is that United have always been ready to buy glory. That it didn't work for them during their long period without a league title is another matter. Yes of course their homegrown boys were important to their Premiership success, but they were also more than supplemented by Ferguson's big buys prior and during their dominant time. McClair, Leighton, Hughes, Webb, Ince, Pallister, Parker, Schmeichel, May, Kanchelskis, Johnsen, Sheringham, Berg, Stam, Blomqvist, Barthez and Van Nistlerooy are examples to add to those you have mentioned. Their transfer fees are laughable compared to the current market, nevertheless they were substantial enough at the time.

Ferguson was mostly very astute at combining his group of special homegrown players with men brought in from outside.

old man of hoy · **#472594**

AmericanGooner wrote:

I know its early and its only been a day or so but Mkhitaryan hasn't smiled yet..haha. Why do I get the impression is he didn't like his end of the deal...

Do we need to get a physiognomist on the case?

Daz · **#472595**

Hazuki wrote:

I wonder what formation we'll see tonight.

All the good players together.

gooner7 · **#472596**

AmericanGooner wrote:

I know its early and its only been a day or so but Mkhitaryan hasn't smiled yet..haha. Why do I get the impression is he didn't like his end of the deal.

That said, Mourinho has now got a new story for his book. He'll gloat about how he took Wenger's best player in a straight swap for a lesser player and a player he didn't want any more.

All smiles, and he claimed he always dreamt about playing at Arsenal
https://player.arsenal.com/video/ive-al ... aying-here

Daz · **#472597**

old man of hoy wrote:

All I am saying is that United have always been ready to buy glory.

I guess we are - all big clubs including Arsenal have used their relative purchasing power in pursuit of glory (your list just shows they operated like a large club in the transfer market over the years, hardly a stunning revelation). But your original statement made it sound as if this was the basic key to their success (notwithstanding the fact that they didn't actually have any until that youth team really kicked in during the 90s) and I don't think that is accurate at all.

old man of hoy · **#472598**

Rich wrote:

....especially as Jose is already talking of breaking the club record transfer fee in the summer

Yes, and even if United win the ECL this time, they will want to make a big point in the Premiership. Would it surprise anybody if Bale, Kane, Griezemann or Ronaldo end up at Old Trafford? They need a midfield genius too, so Özil could become a Red Devil.

old man of hoy · **#472599**

Daz wrote:

Hazuki wrote:

I wonder what formation we'll see tonight.

All the good players together.

And on the pitch. That helps a lot.

Daz · **#472600**

old man of hoy wrote:

AmericanGooner wrote:

I know its early and its only been a day or so but Mkhitaryan hasn't smiled yet..haha. Why do I get the impression is he didn't like his end of the deal...

Do we need to get a physiognomist on the case?

I'd do it but I am too busy writing a villanelle about the late Wenger years.

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