Agree about the front three. Only thing I think doesn't matter though is the points so we may as well play some youngsters. Not going to get top anything and should stay out of relegation with a win or two. Total write off season.

Right now Ox has no hard feelings, no worries. He has a wry smile on his face whenever our match is on TV saying to himself with as much humbleness as he can muster "...there but for the grace of God go I"

I think it may be worthwhile discussing the Ceballos situation. I have seen nothing to convince me that we should retain him beyond his loan period. I don't think he has performed at all and other than his supposed experience there is no justification to play him at all. He brings nothing to the team and his thought process is slow.

He was only selected after his open complaints about not being selected and apparently Arteta said he trained really hard after that. Sorry, but not good enough and would be a waste of money as has been his loan. It is selections like this that make me question Arteta's management.

I agree. Even if ox stayed and hadn’t progressed he would be the star baller in the side. Our current midfield has scored 1 goal between them all season. Ox definitely had a goal in him and definitely assists too.

I said earlier this year I felt Iwobi would be getting a ton of games if he hadn’t left. There’s no creativity at all in the side.

Are you happy to drop into the bottom half of the table then ?

That’s what will happen if we play them and they lose more games. Is it good for the players to be getting thrashed so much?

I get it and my respect for ljungberg increased when for his final game he simply played all the youngsters because he was appalled at the attitude of the senior pros but are we happy to terminally damage the rest of the season to make a point

I agree that they would have stayed as fairly ordinary players had they stated, but that’s my point, even at fairly ordinary they are both better than what we currently have in their best/their favourite position.

I don’t think it was a bad thing we sold them for £60m odd, I don’t pine for them to be back. We’ve just spent that £60m very badly and so they would have remained some of the best midfielders at the club

Sorry I’m really not convinced what you say is right. I honestly think we have midfielders who, if they played for Liverpool, would be a better player than Oxlade-Chamberlain is there. I’d say the same about Iwobi if they played for Everton.

I think you’re seriously underestimating the negative impact joining Arsenal can have on players. If Pépé had joined Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham or Manchester United I reckon he’d have become a better player than he is now. It inevitably takes a bit of time to become ‘Arsenalised’, if I can call it that. But declining at Arsenal is what I see becoming the norm. I hope they all stay as I’m an Arsenal fan, not a players’ agent. But if I was the career mentor for Saka, Guendouzi and Martinelli I’d be advising them all to get out as soon as possible.

That in my view is what Arsenal has now become.

Hi Bernard, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I agree on all your points about being 'Arsenalised' and how some of our signings may have fared at clubs with better structures.
My point was if we took the level of player Ox and Iwobi were at the point of leaving Arsenal, so only their 'Arsenalised' self I think both would be the best players in their position in the current team. The point being we sold two players who certainly weren't the best in their position when they left and have regressed so much that they now would be considered the best

David Ornstein has said an Arsenal player tested positive for Covid-19 and had been in close contact with 2 other players leading up to the City game, all 3 missed 3 days of training but it turned out the test was a false positive so all 3 played in the City game. Given the short prep time the 3 days missed of training would have been important. Of course City would still have thrashed us but it does seem like Arteta can't catch a break at the moment.

I agree in the principle kinda depressing point your making but don’t kid yourself that ceballos., Xhaka and Guendouzi are world beaters. They aren’t getting in the first 11 of any top 6 side.

I don’t see many of our players getting in a top 6 side actually. Aubameyang, Saka and Martinelli. Maybe Leno. Certainly no defenders.

I agree in the principle kinda depressing point your making but don’t kid yourself that ceballos., Xhaka and Guendouzi are world beaters. They aren’t getting in the first 11 of any top 6 side.

I don’t see many of our players getting in a top 6 side actually. Aubameyang, Saka and Martinelli. Maybe Leno. Certainly no defenders.[/quote]
I think Guendouzi was great when he first came into the team last season. Had he since joined a top six side, I think he’d now be good enough to regularly get in the teams of most of them. That’s where I think we’re now at with Saka and Martinelli. If they stay too long they’ll go downhill.

The rumours in Germany were that Bayern had identified Leno as the man to replace Neuer. This injury has presumably buggered the chances of that. I watched MOTD over the weekend and Shearer said he can’t see Aubameyang renewing his contract. I agree. he must be able to see what’s happening. I thus see him being sold while we can still get some money for him.

As I’ve said, for me this is what Stan is doing at Arsenal. We don’t have ambition as a club so people become Arsenalised, or perhaps I should call it Kroenkeised? For me buying and selling players is a side issue. If we want things to radically change, a new owner is for me way more important.

Swiss Ramble always runs a good commentary in finances in football, 2018/19 high level figures for the top 6. First number is total revenue, 2nd number is wages + other expenses

Man U £627m / £441m
City £535m / £421m
Liverpool £533m / £420m
Spurs £461m / £292m
Chelsea £447m / £403m
Arsenal £395m / £317m

In terms of the difference between those numbers there isn't a big difference between Arsenal, City and Liverpool. Spurs will feel the pinch with the new stadium debt and Man U can always sign up another noodle partner if they get in trouble. Other clubs have simple been far more canny with their money.

We're going to need to pull a few rabbits out of hats in the next few years. Huge contracts for ageing players needs to stop.

I do agree that sorting Kroenke out/booting Kroenke out is the only way to really see any recovery. But it is also the one option no one at the club has any influence over. The player recruitment side we can influence. Irrespective of Kroenke there have been some terrible decisions.
We would all love a huge turnover of players but know this can't realistically happen. I think you previously said 6-7, that feels realistic. So for me that would be the following players out: Aubamayang, Lacazette, Luiz, Özil, Sokratis, Torreira (+ Ceballos loan return) I'd also include selling Mkhitaryan + Elneny as neither are part of the squad we built for the season.
That list is based on who we can get money for and who needs to leave.
On the basis that you get £0 or only nominal fees for Luiz, Özil, Sokratis and Elneny I think you could raise £100m+ from Aubamayang, lacazette, Torreria, Mkhitaryan. and about £60m per season off the wage bill.
Thena rebuild can take place. There will be at least another 6-7 to shift in the window after that

The more you see of our rabble the more you wonder how damaging the whole Özil circus has been.

Just seen our remaining fixture list on Twitter. We'll be lucky to get 6 points.

Agree, I would be amazed if we get 50 points this season

We are pretty much bottom half already. If Burnley win their game in hand we will be in eleventh place. This current team is done. We need to plan for five years hence, because that is how long a rebuild will take. All high earners need selling and replacing with some serious tough individuals who will teach the young prospects about hard work and not how to get the biggest discount at the nearest Bentley dealership.

I like that one.

Totally agree that all of the above should in one way or another out of the club come the next season. I would keep them if they showed any desire to work for the club's future, but I doubt they can and at the moment they are no better than the young kids in the team. Though I still hope Torreira becomes the defensive midfielder we have needed for years.

In short, all these players are actually worth more to the team when sold than when still playing for us as their efforts are not worth the money we are spending on them. I seriously believe that there are value for money signings out there that can come in and make us more competitive and who would have more to prove than the current shower. Only problem is I do not see many buyers prepared to purchase our *%^@ who will pay them what they have become accustomed to. So some may do an Özil and pick up their wages until contract end.

Also they should sack Raul as he has not proved in my opinion to be the man we need heading up the football at the club. All he will be able to do is bring in second rate overseas players via his agent friends who are totally unsuitable to where we currently find ourselves. I doubt his contacts have links to the type of players we need.

I hope Josh and Stan are watching and that older more experienced heads like Ken Friar are whispering across the Atlantic about the second rate Venables clone currently running the club.

We bought Oziil without adequately replacing RvP and I still think he was a buy to placate the fans. We could have sold Özil and have Fabregas back ready to give his all for us and retire a gooner but for Wenger being petty as he was with Anelka and others when they wanted to return.

There are miles of difference between the talent of Ceballos and Özil but not much difference in effectiveness right now.

We may as well go 'young and hungry' with Martinelli, Sako and others and support them with quality vets who hopefully will be motivated by the youthful exuberance.

Guendouzi hasn't improved. He doesn't seem to know his exact role. He hasn't improved in reading the game. He'd have done well to have a Vieira or Silva in the side to give him pointers. Xhaka must be a helluva practice player because he keeps getting selected. Same with Mustafi.

Finally, and yes, I'm going to say I told you so. I said the worse thing we can do is get an American owner who doesn't know the game. Usmanov, while vile in some of the things he may have done, was still better than Kroenke. He would have to try and appease us. He would have tried to prove himself. To add insult to injury, here we are, a global club, playing second fiddle to the Los Angeles Rams. A club that if you polled people around the globe they'd think you were talking about a local animal native to California. We're far more popular than the Rams and we are secondary in importance to the Rams.

We're stuck with them. The only hope we have is Josh will be a committed owner one day. We are f*cked as a club. I said years ago that if we won anything its in spite of not because of Kroenke. And its come to fruition. He had very little to do with our cup wins.

We might beat Norwich if they are down by the time we play them, no idea when that is as I long ago gave up looking at the fixture list. I don't see us getting another point beyond that. Maybe Liverpool if they've fallen asleep by then.

Agree. We could have got Cahill on a free, a leader and a winner. Everyone at Palace talks about the influence he has had this season. Instead the club spend £8m on Luiz the circus act.

I don't think so. Almost everyone would surely acknowledge that he was a big downgrade from RvP but nevertheless a very useful option to have in the squad. 8 goals in 50 league appearances for Chelsea suggests that is still the case. I would say we are better off without him clogging up the works. Pace is the way and Giroud's lack of it is not a minor flaw.

as any fule kno

Also throw in Jonny Evans for £3m at the time he went to Leicester. We can't go out and sign/build a title winning squad from scratch but as you say, find some solid players who will never let you down who can teach the younger players. Evans went to Leciester for 1/5 of the amount we signed Sokratis for in the same summer

Also Watford and the Villa. So generously that is nine points.

But Southampton away, Wolves away and Leicester at home look dodgy. Liverpool have too much power and pace for us. Then just Tottenham away. Cannot see a win there either.

It does seem that it was never going to be a case of a clean start when Wenger left. We're having to deal with the final mistakes from his time for a few years before we can truly re-start. And that's assuming we don't make any mistakes since Wenger - which we certainly have!
Obviously it isn't 100% Wenger's fault but he really was running the show and the Özil deal was a desperate last throw of the dice, along with the Aubamayang and Mkhitryan deals. Apparently we wanted Martial as first choice in the Sanchez swap) It would have been a better deal but we'd have had Martial/Aubamayang/Lacazette - it's not exactly balanced squad building.
Aubamayang has been an undoubted hit, carried us in so many games but in terms of re-building a squad his signing wasnt absolutely necessary. £60m would have been better put in the defence

Top teams are always built from the back.
You have nothing without a good back four

Although Burnley are away at Man City tonight so we may still maintain our top half status for a while.
Then again the way our luck is going I can see Burnley sneaking a win.

I had a yap at BT this morning. Turns out fake-noise-free "BT Sports Extra 1" is available via the red button. Who knew eh?

I took the opportunity to have a wider moan and in the end, I got 3 months free BT Sports, my internet speed has doubled and my monthly bill has gone down by £60. This is the only decent result of my weekend.

SKY next I think.

Gary Neville was speaking at the weekend that Fergie used to hate emotional defenders, he said he himself was a bit emotional when he started and Fergie knocked it out of him. To explain further he said Fergie wanted ice cold, concentrated defenders. Basically saying GK and defenders will make mistakes, it will happen, but how do they react to that mistake, do they dive in to try to rectify it and make it worse by giving away a penalty or do they do damage limitation, shadow and give away a corner etc. Neville basically said Arsenal have too many impulsive defenders who want to win the ball early, or make up for a mistake there is no calm head and hasn't been for some time.

I am not sure that you can blame all of our woes on Kroenke.

We spent heavily last summer on one of europe's most sought after players, a LB who was also very highly regarded and a midfielder who was exceptional in the Euro u21 Championships. Most fans were more than happy with the summers work. Even Luiz was seen as a gamble worth taking.

If anything, I think Arsenal players are too much in the comfort zone.......richly paid and living in cosmopolitan London, training facilities more akin to a hotel and health spa complex. No accountability whatsoever.

Poor transfer dealings, in and out. Poor coaching, poor team selections, poor tactics

Something needs to change that's for sure and perhaps the owner needs to adopt a more hands-on approach but I can't see how all the blame lies solely at his door.

Thing is though if you just play the youngsters they will get totally shredded in the remaining games and we could drop as low as 15th. Are youngsters like Saka and Martinelli going to build confidence by playing in a team that’s getting relentlessly battered.

I really don’t know how this ends. Even in 94 we had the defence, spunky and merse and Wright. This side has nothing absolutely nothing, i see very little technical ability in this side and that’s the part of footballers game that doesn’t need coaching.

Excellent, always enjoy a good moan at these corporations.
I recall Sky were giving a free Sky+ box to new customers a long time ago. This was the box that first allowed you to pause, record and rewind live tv. I phoned them and asked if they were rolling this out for existing customers (which I was) and when told no only new customers I gave them a rant that they clearly care about their potential new customers than their existing ones and said I would like to be put through to cancellations, and then as soon as they had done that I would like to be transferred to new customers so I could set up my exact same deal again but have my new customer preferences.......Or, Sky could save all the admin of doing this and just give me a new box because I was willing to go through the admin. They relented and posted a new box out to me. 1-0 to the little (petty) man!

...and its still Dein's fault for bringing us two unacceptable choices. Put the club between the proverbial Scylla and Charybdis. You want to win with Usmanov and have blood on your hands or lose perpetually with Kroenke?
(and lets not even discuss he was against building the stadium as well). As I've always said, the best thing to happen to Arsenal and the worse was Dein. No Dein, no Wenger, no historic side, but he didn't love the club enough to deal with his fellow board numbers honorably. And in the aftermath left us with what we have today. An owner with no emotional connection to the sport or club. And I'd still wager Kroenke couldn't name the majority of the positions on the pitch. He'd get goalkeeper and defense and after that you'll hear'er....ah...hmmm...'

I submit to you the primary if not the only reason Kroenke spent in the summer is when he bought us we were comfortably top 4 and we are losing Europe revenue and fans aren't showing up. He's spending to get back to Europe which sounds noble but its only because it put a wrench in the works of his business model.

I was thinking back to the Brighton game and the lack of reaction from Arsenal players to the Maupay/Leno incident and the lack of challenging the ref for the repeated fouls by Bissouma without a yellow.
I don't think we have a player with enough nous, influence, respect to challenge refs in the way all the other top teams have.
As soon as Bissouma made his 3rd foul we should have had someone respectfully reminding the ref that 3 fouls is borderline yellow for repeat offending, and remind him again and again.
Leno was obviously annoyed by Maupay's challenge, Arsenal only got annoyed with him after the game. I think we need to start looking after ourselves and each other on the pitch more. Far too nicey nicey, the only thing we seem to do is snidey stuff not the proper aggressive and intimidation stuff.

https://arseblog.news/2020/06/grimandi- ... t-choices/

He’s bound to be a bit bitter but I can’t disagree. The decisions are incoherent, spur of the moment and not related to long term planning.

Sign Saliba but refuse to pay more so loan him out, then sign Mari at Christmas

The most bizarre one is soares who is apparently still injured from the original injury pre covid. Just seemed a way of funnelling money to an agent.

I think Kroenke is the driving influence behind Arsenal’s lack of ambition. If he’s not getting accurate summaries of what’s happening from those reporting back to him because of their own self interest, he’s employing the wrong people. If he is getting accurate reports and isn’t doing much or anything about it, that’s his fault.

His main priority is the LA Rams. Would he ideally like Arsenal to win things? Yes I’m sure he would. Is he really bothered if Arsenal don’t win things? No I don’t think he is, certainly not to the extent where he’d fund the turnover in playing staff many fans, perhaps including you, think is required. He said he did not buy Arsenal to win trophies. That philosophy of non-ambition encapsulates his ownership regime, in my view.

Is absolutely everything Kroenke’s fault? Probably not. There’s a limit to how far one man can know everything going on in a sports organisation the size of Arsenal. But as he has made himself the sole owner, he is completely and totally in charge. From that, I think it’s reasonable to see him as responsible for the club’s declining fortunes. The buck stops with him. It has to. But I doubt he really cares. If Arsenal is a hierarchy, and I have no doubt it is, Stan is the man at the top of that hierarchy. He’s the Field Marshall Hague of the British army in WWI.

The Pépé signing was probably funded from staff advising him it could get us back into the Champions League. If someone, like Sanllehi, gave him bad advise over that or other transfers, he should look at the advice he got and from where.