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Post #485721  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:45 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
50 million quid budget for transfers this summer


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ssion=true



......and there ends Mourinho's dream of managing Arsenal


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Post #485722  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:49 am 
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No the new manager regardless of who it is should get our undivided support. He or she will have a hell of a job to do that won't happen overnight and the remedy to our issues won't be found in their first season. Even if it's Arteta who I would be really disappointed with as an appointment from the board.

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Broccoli and Stilton soup
Stir fried beef ... with broccoli
Broccoli Quiche


... just so *%^@*** versatile


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Post #485723  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:22 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
As an example I know of a capital city law firm who sacked 50 lawyers one Friday morning and not one of them was even allowed to return to their office/desk. There goods were gathered by security and they were marched with redundancy payments in their hand.

Great example! Did they win their semi-final the following week?

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Post #485724  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:45 am 
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My mistake. I meant FCZ! I was in Zurich a few weeks back and the place was completely sticker bombed particularly those saying FCZ. My kids even went around taking photos of the best ones. I really liked what I saw of Zurich though its eye wateringly expensive.


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Post #485725  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:45 am 
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Do agree Babs. Force them into being a unit rather than a collection of individuals.

Focus should be to get back into the top 4 if it's affecting our transfer budget


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Post #485726  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:02 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Niall wrote:
It would be very underwhelming to let Wenger go and then appoint Arteta or someone with so little experience.

Not that I don't agree with your opinion on Arsenal's deficiencies.

However, if there's only £50m available you've got to wonder if that's going to be an attractive proposition for an Allegri, Luis Enrique or any of the other big names we are being linked. Making Arteta more of a possibility.



....and I'm sure one fine sunny day in the not too distant future a really maxi intelligent guy like yourself will come to realise this .


:icon_smile11:

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Post #485727  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:17 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Pete on the beach wrote:
That’s the hope, but imo it partly depends on Wenger not snipping from the sidelines on a regular ( ot even irregular basis) for a couple of years at least . I don’t have much confidence in that happening

Are you really that uncomfortable with just letting go of the anti Wenger narrative? He'll be gone soon, and he'll most likely be busy at some other club. No reason to let him affect the fan mood at Arsenal any longer at that point.


No you obviously didn’t look properly the point I was answering ,

As he proved in his comments the other day , the ‘anti’ narrative only really can start the day he walks away

if he’s busy at another club you may be right , quite frankly after he leaves I hope we rarely have to refer to him or him to us for a “significant” amount of time , so everyone can move forward , but knowing the way the media operate they will ask questions and he’s likely to answer , plus there will be ‘ noises off’ from bitter AKB’s whenever a new manager hits a couple of defeats not to mention the likes of Cross and Oliver holt, knowing Wenger as we do , do you really expect him to say “ no comment” at these times , be nice if he does


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Post #485728  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:24 am 
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Babu III wrote:
Babu: "Yes, that man overe there does look like a complete and utter shitforbrainspretentiousarseholefuckingsomebitchrapperwhileheshouldhavebeenlookingafterthisclub7daysaweekfuckingcunt, doesn't he."


Oh great - Now I gotta add that to the swear filter as well ...


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Post #485729  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:28 am 
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Pete on the beach wrote:
As he proved in his comments the other day , the ‘anti’ narrative only really can start the day he walks away

Those comments also showed that there are people who are prepared to snipe at any perceived slight and will continue to do so even after they’ve got their wish. Those supporters also needs to get past it.

I doubt Wenger will be commenting on Arsenal every other day after he leaves any way. As for the ‘AKB’ and not giving the new manager a chance, I think that’s a bold prediction from you and Gaz. You could be right of course, that the people who have spent years backing the Arsenal manager will now do a complete u-turn, and the people who have spent years moaning will suddenly think everything is all rosy, but I have serious doubts about that.

I for one am excited to see some change, and I’ve been one of Wengers biggest supporters on here for years. Any new manager should get at least a couple of seasons to make his mark, provided we see some kind of positive forward momentum of course.


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Post #485730  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:39 am 
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warrior wrote:
Babu III wrote:
Babu: "Yes, that man overe there does look like a complete and utter shitforbrainspretentiousarseholefuckingsomebitchrapperwhileheshouldhavebeenlookingafterthisclub7daysaweekfuckingcunt, doesn't he."


Oh great - Now I gotta add that to the swear filter as well ...


Babs is pushing new boundaries all the time :laughing7:


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Post #485731  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:49 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
The next couple of years will not solve the fan divide. There will be the pro Wenger, the revisionist and the anti Wenger/pro new manager groups. Seeing signs of it on the forum already.

Yeah, you seem to have made your mind up about this already. I think once a new manager is in place and Wenger stops being the center of attention we'll see a completely new dynamic among fans. Although I'm looking forward to you apparently being the one to defend our new manager in face of relentless and often unjust criticism!

There you go proving my point.

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Post #485732  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:54 am 
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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUS_1K3yHVk[/youtube]

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Post #485733  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:58 am 
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Niall wrote:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUS_1K3yHVk[/youtube]

Decent programme but I thought it slightly favoured united. Also it doesn't help the flow of the programme having morons like Paul Scholes on it.


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Post #485734  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:59 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Yeah, you seem to have made your mind up about this already. I think once a new manager is in place and Wenger stops being the center of attention we'll see a completely new dynamic among fans. Although I'm looking forward to you apparently being the one to defend our new manager in face of relentless and often unjust criticism!

There you go proving my point.

So when you're talking about "fan divide" you really mean "slight tweaking on internet forums"? Yeah, don't expect that to disappear actually.


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Post #485735  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:11 am 
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Lets take Wenger out of the news. I am tipping 3-1 win against Atletico and a draw against Man U if we play our best team.

Atletico played last Friday and lost 3-0 and had a game yesterday and got a 0-0 draw. Prior to that they had a 1-0 loss to Sporting on 13/4 and on 20/4 a win of 3-0 over Levante. So I expect they will have some fatigue. They are not in sparkling form.

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Post #485736  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:28 am 
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Ash wrote:
kiwipete wrote:


You want his stature cast in bronze tomorrow ; fine ... but plenty aren't as rational , mild mannered whatever as you , Niall , Goonie and Hoy .

Some like Babu , Daz , Gaz , Harlow , Brom , Granty , Top Gun , Bored , Socrates , TomC , Ash , Decaf , G7 want to vent their spleen ..... where's the problem .


Er, excuse me. Don’t sully my well garnered decades old reputation, show some unity will you!

I haven’t been venting my spleen!

Until now...

:laughing7:

I’m probably somewhere in the middle, which probably means something like I want the intellectually questionable luxury of holding all the different opinions at once.

I don’t dislike the man, it seems to me he’s more intelligent than most other people involved in English football, but crucially not as much as he thinks, and you don’t need to be intelligent to win at football. Being a deep thinker doesn’t necessarily make you intelligent anyway. He’s so French.

A problem he seems to have is he likes the side quests. “Develop 5 youngsters into first teamers”, “revolutionise your training centre and overhaul club nutrition”, “turn an obscure turnip farmer with spades for feet into a marauding left back” and so forth. Winning was never enough for him. Or never the only thing.

The problem being that these things aren’t the same thing as “produce a team to win titles and trophies” which is really what he is paid to do first and foremost.

I’ll miss him, he’s clearly unique and all, but I’m glad he’s going and slightly worried, like someone else said, of the potential harm he could yet cause to the club before he goes.


Pretty fair - I like the side quests analogy...spot on...for sure there were a quite a few moments of "how can I reach the wood when there are so many interesting trees in the way"

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Post #485737  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:33 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Niall wrote:
Arsenal missed out on signing Cristiano Ronaldo as a teenager due to financial constraints, according to former Gunners scout Damien Comolli.

"He came to the [Arsenal] training centre twice. Nobody knows that. He met Thierry, who was his idol. But when it came to making the transfer, there was no money."

Much more convenient to just blame Arsene though.

So this book states the board told us the money was not available or was it simply I understand the money was not available. Or did the person who made all transfer decisions at the club say the money was not available. See three possibilites out of the simple words that you quote.

That same person has a long history of working out a value for a player and then not paying beyond that - you know like Suarez, Alonso. Perhaps he did not have an understanding of the true market and Dein was no longer there to convince him to pay the extra.

Still all those in the 'I am feeling guilty now' group are scrambling to blame everyone else. I simply don't know in this instance but you cannot exonerate Wenger. I do not know if it was Wenger, the board or a combination.


Your point does illustrate effectively how much the previous and current boards were able to hide everything behind Wenger. They paid him exceptionally well to be the fall guy, but if a few more of the b'stards had put their hand in their pocket while we were building the stadium, the transfer purse would have been a lot more open at the time when Wenger was still better informed about he next big thing than most managers.

Now of course, half the internet geeks like me know about almost every player over the age of 17 in Europe, let alone clubs with vast scouting resources, so that competitive advantage that was so important to Wenger has long gone.

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Post #485738  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:35 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
The next couple of years will not solve the fan divide. There will be the pro Wenger, the revisionist and the anti Wenger/pro new manager groups. Seeing signs of it on the forum already.

Yeah, you seem to have made your mind up about this already. I think once a new manager is in place and Wenger stops being the center of attention we'll see a completely new dynamic among fans. Although I'm looking forward to you apparently being the one to defend our new manager in face of relentless and often unjust criticism!

Totally agree. Gaz is equating the now with the future. There won't be pro-Wenger camps as soon as there is someone else is in place, as long as its not a complete numpty. Wenger is still the discussion point because he's still there and his replacement is undecided.

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Post #485739  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:39 am 
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Very good piece from a brilliantly brilliant writer

http://www.espn.in/football/club/arsena ... ick-hornby


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Post #485740  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:42 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Niall wrote:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUS_1K3yHVk[/youtube]

Decent programme but I thought it slightly favoured united. Also it doesn't help the flow of the programme having morons like Paul Scholes on it.

Yeah it was good but nothing really new in it. They skipped our FA Cup win in 2005 as well.

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Post #485741  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:02 am 
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Vince Ordinaire wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
As an example I know of a capital city law firm who sacked 50 lawyers one Friday morning and not one of them was even allowed to return to their office/desk. There goods were gathered by security and they were marched with redundancy payments in their hand.

Great example! Did they win their semi-final the following week?


Also, lawyers can do immeasurable damage poaching clients, leaking documents etc and upon leaving could destroy a firm if they chose to given the nature of the business. Bar annoying a few people and putting more pressure onto the board, what damage could Wenger do that hasn't already happened yet?

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Post #485742  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:15 am 
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Babu III wrote:
I'm just glad the *%^@*** *%^@ didn't die!
And I never thought I would say that!

At least we can still slag him off a little bit.
Just imagine if the old *%^@ had just died in the dug-out and no-body noticed. Bouldy certainly wouldn't have.
And then there would be all the moving obituaries ( bowel-moving ) and such-like.

Yup, I'm glad the old wanger is still alive.
I really want to break his arm. Or leg. Nothing too serious. Just a lasting scar.

Hilarious.

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Post #485743  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:15 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Vince Ordinaire wrote:
Great example! Did they win their semi-final the following week?


Also, lawyers can do immeasurable damage poaching clients, leaking documents etc and upon leaving could destroy a firm if they chose to given the nature of the business. Bar annoying a few people and putting more pressure onto the board, what damage could Wenger do that hasn't already happened yet?


Lose the Semi
Poach players for a potential new club
Leave a floater in the loo at the training ground.

Unilikely I know but not beyond the realms of possibility


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Post #485744  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:27 am 

[quote]
I've just checked Reyes and he was £10.5m at 21 years of age and I'm sure you know the stories about how long Wenger watched him which adds credence to the Auclair angle we couldn't really afford big signings to be misses. The fee with add ons was £17.5m but I'm sure we didn't pay most of that
[/quote]

Reyes and Hleb were the only two incoming transfers where I remember the fee being announced on Arsenal.com. Reyes was £17m with add ons, but I wouldn't write off the possibility it was paid in full. In his first eighteen months at Arsenal we won a league title and FA Cup, and before leaving he played for us in a Champions League final. He also played over a hundred games for the club.

I accept his contribution to that success is debatable, but I'm certain any performance criteria for the add ons had far more to do with trophies and appearances than opinions on how well he played. My guess would be the £17m would have been paid either in full, or at least very close to it.


  
 
 
Post #485745  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:29 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Lets take Wenger out of the news. I am tipping 3-1 win against Atletico and a draw against Man U if we play our best team.


When the draw was made I felt we had absolutely no chance of beating Atletico though admittedly I haven't been following their recent form so cheers for that update. I just felt we may have had a good opportunity to beat them in a one off game in the final, with us as the underdogs but over two legs and their stadium pretty intimidating that they would have too much for us.

Obviously the news on Arsene changes the narrative going into the game and I can only hope that we play with total conviction on the night. With the news Costa is likely to be out of the first leg it's an opportunity to grab a good win though we have been very unfortunate to have lost Mikhitaryan for this one; and perhaps also Elneny who has been reasonably solid and had a great game in Moscow.

Atletico don't concede many goals and are based on a solid defence so I'd be pleased enough with a 1-0 win with no away goal concession in the first leg. However, if we play on Thursday or in Spain like we did in Moscow; or defend as poorly as we did at times against West Ham at the weekend, I'd expect us to be punished for it.

Atletico still favourites for me; we have it all to do.

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Post #485746  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:40 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Reyes and Hleb were the only two incoming transfers where I remember the fee being announced on Arsenal.com. Reyes was £17m with add ons, but I wouldn't write off the possibility it was paid in full. In his first eighteen months at Arsenal we won a league title and FA Cup, and before leaving he played for us in a Champions League final. He also played over a hundred games for the club.

I accept his contribution to that success is debatable, but I'm certain any performance criteria for the add ons had far more to do with trophies and appearances than opinions on how well he played. My guess would be the £17m would have been paid either in full, or at least very close to it.

I'm pretty sure Wenger once commented on what the fee ended up being, but I can't find the quote now. If I remember correctly it was somewhere around £15m in total.


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Post #485747  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:45 am 
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Niall wrote:
Atletico still favourites for me; we have it all to do.

Yes, I’m not expecting us to go through and I wouldn’t be surprised if we lost the first leg at home. For all the talk from our players about wanting to win for Wenger, you don’t win football games just because you want to. Atletico are a better team than us, and they’ve been very successful in Europe the past five years. There’s still a lot missing from our team; defensive stability, creativity in midfield, reliable goalkeeping etc.

Would be a great story if we won, but I don't see it.


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Post #485748  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:53 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Niall wrote:
Atletico still favourites for me; we have it all to do.

Yes, I’m not expecting us to go through and I wouldn’t be surprised if we lost the first leg at home. For all the talk from our players about wanting to win for Wenger, you don’t win football games just because you want to. Atletico are a better team than us, and they’ve been very successful in Europe the past five years. There’s still a lot missing from our team; defensive stability, creativity in midfield, reliable goalkeeping etc.

Would be a great story if we won, but I don't see it.

Yes, I was thinking afterwards that Wenger's keyword post West Ham at the weekend was patience and that was maybe alluding to what he expects on Thursday night. Atletico will be unlikely to leave space for our key players, certainly nowhere near the extent to which Özil was afforded and did so much damage from against CSKA. Unfortunately, Atletico also have some pretty handy senors going forward as well. As you say, they've been around the top 4 sides in Europe for the past while and have loads of experience playing (and beating) better sides than us. It would be quite the result if we can edge past them.

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Post #485749  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Babu III wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
Hilarious.

oh do stop it

Sorry, Babu. Your joke about Arsene breaking a limb was very funny indeed. Swiss humour rules.

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Post #485750  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Niall wrote:
Atletico still favourites for me; we have it all to do.

Yes, I’m not expecting us to go through and I wouldn’t be surprised if we lost the first leg at home. For all the talk from our players about wanting to win for Wenger, you don’t win football games just because you want to. Atletico are a better team than us, and they’ve been very successful in Europe the past five years. There’s still a lot missing from our team; defensive stability, creativity in midfield, reliable goalkeeping etc.

Would be a great story if we won, but I don't see it.

I think the important part is they are a a better TEAM. Player for player on paper there might not be too much between the sides, especially if we could be at full strength.

But whilst we are less than the sum of our parts Simeone has Atletico greater than the sum of theirs. The biggest difference you'll see on Thursday will be the off the ball know-how, position play, work rate and organisation.

Our best hope is going on one of those ridiculous bursts of attacking football with chance after chance and goal after goal - we attack with pace and suffocate the opposition that they can't get out. But this is a rare occurrence for Arsenal nowadays


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Post #485751  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:59 pm 

I'm possibly being over-optimistic but it won't surprise me if we knock Atletico out. Despite Griezmann they're not the best going forward and importantly I think we're a bit more likely to get an away goal than them, although Mkhitaryan is a big loss in that respect. If I'm right, getting any number of away goals more than they get could be crucial.

If I remember correctly Hazuki mentioned that teams don't win games because the players want to, and of course he's right. But their attitude can be vital, that's undeniable. And I see the players knowing Wenger is going as helping the role their attitude will make to Arsenal in this tie.


  
 
 
Post #485752  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Lots of interesting names being thrown around , but surely we’re not considering Brendan Rodgers? We don’t even have to look at his résumé, just look at this selection of quotes. He’s the David Brent of football management.


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Post #485753  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:17 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Daz wrote:
Watched it now. I thought he was charming and good-humoured right up until Amy's question and then the mask slipped a bit. He then realised that and tried to pull it back. He clearly does feel anger towards the fans though and sees their entirely legitimate desire to manifest their discontent as spoiling the "unity" of the club. The problem is that part of that unity involved him signing a new two-year contract only last year and there is no doubt he would have gone on doing that if allowed to do so. Politicians always demand unity - it most often means stop questioning my leadership, shut up and get in line.


I would be surprised if his anger isn't rather more at the board in the fullness of time. After all, he's made the previous lot and the current lot a boatload of cash, and the second the fans started not turning up, it was cheerio time. One gets the impression that he wasn't set any ultimatums or told he was underachieving. Not that for a second I think its the wrong thing that they've handed him the revolver...


Also made a boatload for himself. If he honestly thought the problems existed only after fans stopped turning up then he was totally delusional. Even his most die hard fans at least could acknowledge that there were problems. To me it feels like he had similar traits to a gambler and ignored overwhelming evidence that didn't fit his view or had the addiction of past success encouraging him to have just one more go.

Anyway, last I will say about him.

Onwards.


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Post #485754  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Anticipating a good game here.

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Post #485755  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Diego Costa has nicely recovered from injury or a holiday rest, to grace us with his appearance Thursday.
:icon_razz:

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Post #485756  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Looks like Roma have the measure of Liverpool.


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Post #485757  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Maybe not.


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Post #485758  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Could have been 5 since 30 minutes. Roma far too high.

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Post #485759  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Suicidal tactics from Roma. Was going OK for them until Liverpool worked it out. Very poor challenge by supposed Arsenal target Manolas there for the second goal. Look where he is!!

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Post #485760  Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:03 pm 
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I mean Liverpool are good but bloody hell the tactics from Roma might as well have been set by Klopp.

Once again Liverpool getting a couple of big ref decisions, add those to the tactics of this team and City in the last round simply playing totally in to Liverpool's hands - its a ridiculous run to the final.

This is the equivalent of teams playing Arsenal with no pressure on any of our creative players and deciding not to track any runs. I'm totally gobsmacked how a team can set up so clearly to benefit an opponents strengths


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