But we can do. It has happened in individual games. It really has. The Chelsea cup final. I suspect you’re right that Klopp would get rid of Xhaka. But he had a fine game in the Chelsea final, so I even think Klopp would be able to get more out of him.

It hasn’t, when was the last time we played slick one touch football think ala Jack Wilsheres goal againest Norwich ? We haven’t Bernard.

The chelsea cup final was won by 2 individual moments. First being a lofted excellent pass from Tierney and Aubameyangs slick finish. The city win in the semi ? The very same ball from Tierney won us that tie too. We aren’t winning these games in the midfield battle with fast passing and tempo.

We played that final with a good tempo. We did, full stop. As we did against Manchester United at home last season, and in the first half of the home game against Chelsea last season (the second half dropped off).

I’m not saying it happens often enough but it has occasionally happened. That means with the players currently available it is possible. If Klopp was our manager, even with exactly the same players as we currently have, I firmly believe he would get us playing with a higher tempo even before he’s able to replace loads of them.

It’s not. Arsenal are now approaching 500minutes in the league since they last scored in open play. In certain games we may look competitive but we are not dominating the midfield battle, cutting teams open with fast tempo and passing and we are currently 11th in the table and look like a team that should be 11th.

Joe willock as a number 10 for arsenal ? I mean I like the kid but that’s complete poverty at this level of the game. As rich points out many of these players have now failed for successive managers.

The hard truth is some of the guys we have are sadly not of the level required.

Nketiah, willock and Nelson should be on loan to championship sides at this stage in their career not bailing out the arsenal first team. Xhaka, a perpetual failure, ceballos a midfielder Madrid thought wasn’t good enough to sit on their bench and were not even fussed about getting a loan fee for. Chuck in an expensive and talented but exceptionally inconsistent winger and a 32 year old last final contract and it’s the perfect receipe for disaster.

Transfers and horse trading get us out of this not coaching.

Probably. And the same with Willock, who may find it hard to translate his excellent form against the likes Dundalk. But it would be good to see them run of starts, nevertheless. They are unlikely to make us worse at the this stage!

Hi Bernard, I agree Klopp would get more from them, but only because he's a vastly experienced and very good manager, but I still think he'd struggle to get this team where we want it to be. There are easily 6-8 better first 11's in the league. Arteta is a rookie manager and will make mistakes but the hand he's been dealt is terrible. I've always said the easiest thing to do in football is to make a team more solid and harder to beat, it is why I used to bemoan Wenger's lack of ability to do this because even journeymen league 1 defences could be more organised than we were for many years. Arteta has done that but it has come at the expense of the attack. If he releases the shackles we swing the other way.

I don't think a huge turnover of players isn't possible, the money isn't anywhere near what Chelsea have but over the last 3 seasons we've seen huge numbers of players leave and join Arsenal
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arse ... /verein/11
Have a look at the ins and outs of what we would consider 1st team players in this website. More turnover than any big 6 club for sure.
It can and will have to be done again in the next transfer windows. Özil, Mustafi, Sokratis, Luiz and Ceballos are all out of contract with us in the summer. That is 5 gone. Then Lacazette, Chambers, Kolasinac, Nketiah will have only 1 more year - I can only see Nketiah and Chambers signing new deals but it might be none of them do. We also have Torreira and Guendouzi on loan and Elneny who could all easily leave. If the club make the right decisions on the outgoings even allowing for a loan for Nketiah that is 12 players gone. We have a bloated squad so you don't need to replace with 12 but there needs to be dramatic movement and I think there will be. We'd have seen a lot more this summer without Covid

I feel to have come full circle.

Back when I first started supporting Arsenal in the early sixties we were an ordinary mid table team and had to live off stories of past glories. We were even managed by a player in his first (only) management stint.

Rich, I’ve never said the existing players can get us to where we want it to be. However, where we want it to be is probably different. You and others may have different “where we want it to be” hopes than me.

I want to see Arsenal win the Champions League before I pop my clogs (hopefully a few decades yet). Do I think our current squad could do that? No I don’t. But under Klopp, who you agree would get more out of them than Arteta, I think there is some sort of chance he’d qualify us for next season’s competition with a fourth place finish. Not saying he’d guarantee it. But I think there is a possibility he could.

It being so long since we scored in open play could have as much to do with our style of football than the quality of players. I do agree with you that Nketiah, Willock and Nelson should ideally be on loan. However, I will remind you that Ceballos has 11 full caps for the Spanish national team and made 56 appearances in the two seasons he’s spent with Real Madrid’s squad (he was only 23 when he joined us on loan from them). Suggests to me he must have something about him, even if he’s not considered up to replacing Kroos there, who I consider one of the best midfielders in Europe.

Another one of our youth players is making strides at other teams, Yunus Musah is now in the Valencia first team after joining them at the start of last season. We couldn't get him to sign a deal and he saw a route to first team football at Valencia - to be fair he's been proven right. We can't keep them all but we must get better at sell on clauses, buy back clauses or getting fees for these players in the first place. There are so many now that even with any sort of clause we'd be quids in or about to be quids in. Balogun may be the next one we can't keep.

Mkhitaryan has scored 14 league goals in 30 league appearances for Roma from his loan and permanent transfer this season. sigh

Saka would

Your probably dropping ziyech then. I probably wouldn’t suggest that’s logical. Also remember they have mount and havertz not even in that line up. If we had those 3 I think Saka would be used sparingly

They've got Pulisic to come back in as well. It would be more interesting to ask a Chelsea fan who from our entire squad makes their best 11? I'd bet their quite happy with their new GK and wouldn't swap him for Leno, I'd also bet they would take James over Bellerin - James looks far more exciting going forward. Gabriel I think they would take considering their CB are the weakest part of their squad. They would hopefully find a space for Partey over Kovacic and Jorginho but not over Kante ad they wouldn't take any of our forwards. Shows how much stronger they've got with that £1/4 billion splurge and more remarkable how we beat them in the Cup final

I think we have to remember that the same player can perform at different levels at alternative clubs. We’ve seen that with Willian. Outstanding at Chelsea (the initial reaction to his signing was generally very positive) and so far disappointing at Arsenal. It is not impossible that some Arsenal players may simply raise their game at Chelsea, beyond the level is it with us.

Seriously

There’s no level Xhaka could raise his game to that would make you drop Kanté,

There’s no level Ceballos can raise his game to that means your dropping Havertz

Yes, my point is very serious because it’s undeniably true. I wasn’t talking about Xhaka raising his game to Kante’s level or Ceballos raising his game to Havertz’s level if they joined Chelsea. It’s you with the obsession (an unhealthy obsession in my view) about those players. I was talking generally, and what I said is correct. Willian has proved it. I see it as highly likely that a number of our players would perform at a different level (some better and maybe some worse) at Chelsea to how they perform at Arsenal.

A bit of advice that I mean as friendly advice. I would seriously try and calm down about your pet hates. Xhaka has been a long-term one, but Ceballos seems the ‘new boy on the block’ in that regard. Take a deep breath and stop letting loose about them so often. Your criticisms of both, if more occasional, would strike me at least as a bit more rational if you did.

The only thing Willian has proved is that we have no decent midfield players apart from partey

Well he was decent as Chelsea.

Some alarming stats about our midfield. This is not to put any blame at Willock, I think he's better as a No.8 coming from deep rather than as a No.10 at the head of a midfield 3

Granit Xhaka completed zero passes to Joe Willock and just three to Ceballos.
Willock didn't complete a single pass to Xhaka, just two to Ceballos and none to Aubameyang.
The player with the most completed passes to Pierre Emerick Aubameyang in the Leeds match was Bernd Leno with five.

I can't think the game plan for the midfield was don't pass it to Aubameyang so there is a skill gap in there no matter what the tactics

Exactly.

Nailed it

It would be interesting to compare the areas Willian received the ball when playing at Chelsea last year vs where he is receiving it for us. and also looking how many men the opposition have behind the ball on average each time he receives it. I think it would highlight the problems getting the ball to these players who can do damage. Willian needs to ball quickly in the final third, he has a very quick drop of the shoulder and whip it in style of wing play from the right and a drift inside, create half a yard and shoot when coming from the left - did both countless times for Chelsea, but his starting position for nearly all of this would be in the opponents final third 1 v 1 with the fullback. He gets the ball nearer the half way line for us

Another stat to follow on from above........Saka (3) completed more passes to Aubameyang in the game against Leeds than Willian, Pépé and Willock combined (2).

That was exactly my point. Players can perform at different levels for alternative clubs. Willian was good at Chelsea and has so far been disappointing at Arsenal. Hence I’m not sure why you questioned my suggestion.

At chelsea he had midfielders like Kanté feeding him.. at Arsenal he has Xhaka so the ball arrives on the halfway line 10 minutes later after Xhaka has trapped it 5 times.

It or that could also highlight the difficulties he’s having in performing in Arsenal’s system of play.

An interesting stat, just proves at the end of the day this is about individual quality and ability. When your star player receives the ball more from his keeper and a substitute than the team you have to question it.

Passing isn’t Kante’s main strength. Despite your gross exaggerations, Xhaka might even be a better passer than Kante. Over longer distances I’d say he definitely is.

And question the style of play facilitating it.

By the way the stat I’d be interested in hearing is the number of occasions in each game Pépé and Willian take receipt of a successful pass over the halfway line with no more than 6 opposing players in their own half.

That’s the one.

The style of play is determined by the players you have on the pitch. Even Wenger said this in his recent podcast where he said it wasnt a change of style after the invincibles period ended that created the wengerball tikka taka it was the players he simply had at the time that created the style based on their characteristics

Confirms what a self-serving prat Wenger was. He decided to recruit a bunch of skilful midgets who could only play tika-taka. As Martin Keown said, after seeing the Barcelona of the Messi, Iniesta, Xavi era Wenger fell in love with the way they played and decided to copy it with inferior players. Hence the ‘get on her bike Vieira, you’re not the type of player I want anymore.’

Just realised that the Wolves match, Nov 29, is wedged in between both EL matches, Molde Nov 26 and then Vienna, Dec 3. At least the Wolves and Vienna matches are at Ems. The Spurs Dec 5 match may not happen. What a run of games. Players being knackered is the least of it all.

Pépé has put out an apology on social media after his red card. Admitted his error and apologised. He’ll surely start the europa games now.

All the more reason to secure europa top spot early then just play the kids and anyone who won’t be anywhere near the starting 11 in the prem

The 5th December is a Saturday Zed. Won’t the Tottenham game just be moved back to Sunday the 6th?

It's all important Rich. We're 11th and Wolves at 12th and with a win against Southampton tonight, could move above us obviously. First see who flies out to Norway for the Molde match. MA needs this win.

But he would say that, wouldn't he?

He wasn’t claiming credit he was saying the opposite about how things evolve.