I’ve watched that penalty and the red card many times now and they really are the decisions that you have to ‘want’ to give as a referee. It feels the same as so many of the decisions, particularly red cards, that have gone against us this season.
And we also have to witness genuinely bad fouls against us not be punished with a red. The Bruno Fernandes was outrageous that he didn’t walk and there are countless others up and down the league not just against us.

Ex ref Mark Clattenburg on the penalty

This was a defining decision in a match with so much riding on the result and I'm not sure I would have given this. Technically, Paul Tierney wasn't wrong.
We were shown a replay of what the referee could see from behind and it looked like a nudge in the back from Cédric Soares on Son Heung-min.
But if we're going to give this as a penalty, I could find plenty of other examples when the same 'foul' has occurred in the box in other games.
The inconsistency is frustrating because when this happens next week in another Premier League game, will it be given? Maybe. Maybe not. Unfortunately for Arsenal, Tierney considered it a clear foul

He also said he agreed with the Holding red card. Unfortunately no mention of the Son elbow and his view on that

https://twitter.com/kissethfc/status/15 ... v7uXjDMbNQ

Poor dive from Nketiah, but he’d got the situation where he could have forced a penalty. Dier had dived in nowhere near the ball, just alter his run slightly and make sure there is contact. Kane or Son or any number of Liverpool players would have made sure they got a penalty from this situation, you only have to look at the one Jota got, pushes the ball past the gk then changed the direction of his run to collide with the gk

We’ve got more streetwise but this and holding not milking the elbow are areas we need to be much smarter. Penalties and reds hugely influence matches and we’re still conceding more than we get. We have to be forcing the ref and var much more

Hi Rich,

By the letter of the law the pen was a pen, there was a shove from Cédric. However, if you give that you have to be consistent and start giving pens for all the wrestling, pushing, holding, grappling, blocking that goes on in the penalty box at any set piece.

Holding's sending off was just sheer stupidity, which you could see coming almost from the first whistle. As soon as he got a yellow my thought was he needs to be taken off because he's a red card waiting to happen. He even had several warnings along the way but failed to heed any of them.

The sending off was the defining moment of the game and even then we weren't quick enough to react to it and get our new formation sorted and, as a result, were suddenly out of the game at 2-0 down with 10 men.

It still is in our hands. With a point lead currently, we have to at least match Tottenham’s points total in the last two games. Whatever points they get against Burnley at home and Norwich away, be it zero (two defeats), one (a draw and a loss), two (a couple of draws), three
(a win and a loss), four (a win and a draw) or six (a couple of wins as five points in two matches isn’t possible), we have to at least equal it.

Burnley will be fighting for their lives. Maybe Rich is right when he said Everton may well be safe by their last game at the Emirates. Theoretically that will be to our benefit as it removes the ‘must not lose’ motivation from them.

But however hard Burnley are desperate for something (points wise) from their game at Tottenham, I still believe the most logical prediction is a Tottenham win, with another win at Norwich simply because they’re the worst team in the Premier League (a polite way of saying utter garbage).

If so we are likely to not only have to beat Everton (which is surely the most logical prediction), but Newcastle away. It’s doable, but winning at St Jame’s Park worries me. Sure they’ve nothing much to play for. But they’ve improved dramatically under Howe and in front of their vocal home crowd, for Arsenal to probably (I see that as a more appropriate word to use than ‘possibly’) needing to win there looks bloody difficult to me.

Good Morning Bernard. What was your impression of their stadium? And was exiting the ground better managed by the police than in the past?

Morning Bored. Must admit I was less impressed with it from the inside than I was the time before when I saw it from the outside. Indeed, maybe I’m being unfair but last night I didn’t even think it looked as good from the outside than I did the first time when I happened to be in the area so went and had a look. If the Emirates is tarted up positively when the images of former legends with arms around each other’s shoulders as though in a wall defending a free kick outside the area are replaced, as I read is happening, I even think our ground could well look better from the outside.

I have to admit the away end is presumably the worst section of the internal ground. That seems logical. The seats are cheap plastic rather than the nice seats at the Emirates (although a safe standing area the seats were still there, which as far as I’m concerned shows this safe standing stuff is a load of nonsense). Is that the case at the Emirates? I don’t know as the away end is the one area of the ground I don’t remember being in, even for the numerous stadium tours I’ve done.

Which again may make my view of Tottenham’s new ground a bit unfair. But overall, from what I saw of it, the ground wasn’t as good as I was expecting it to be. Having said that, it does have one very big plus point over the Emirates. The stands are much nearer the pitch.

Please stop talking rubbish. The red was thoroughly deserved. Holding was simply too wound up. Frankly disappointed to see Arteta whining about the ref. We were 2nd best. End of.

It wasn’t the red it was the weak pen that started it.

Honestly there’s several penalties every game if you are giving them. We get a hard time off the refs end of

I was impressed by the stadium, particularly inside. It felt much bigger and grander than The Emirates largely because their roof rises to allow every spectator a view of the whole arena. The big stand behind the goal is quite a sight. Also, the three bands of advertising screens above the perimeter pitch boards gave the arena a real sense of sparkle and vibrancy. Because of planning restrictions, our roof falls inwards, which keeps the overall height of the stadium low but restricts the long views within the bowl.

Have to admit I quite liked the ‘safe standing’. The only difference between the standing and seating areas is the presence of a rail at about belt height. You’d always expect to stand at that sort of game but the rail definitely made it easier. It should really be re-named ‘comfortable standing’ as opposed to ‘safe standing’. I don’t see that it’s in any way safer.

I was in Row 12 I think, so quite low in terms of what I’m used to, and the rake of the terracing seemed quite shallow. There was a sense that when the action was at the other end, the two massive screens above the stands tended to draw the eye. I found them a bit of a distraction rather than a viewing aid.

I thought exactly the same. When Tottenham scored their third at the other end of the pitch, as the ball was running free to Son my eyes glanced up to the screen. So I was actually watching the third goal on the screen rather than directly on the pitch.

Last night's game showed up a lot of our current, well documented weaknesses which need addressing asap. Arteta and the management team have a lot of work to do.

BUT, if you'd told me at the start of the season we'd be going into the last two matches, in 4th place by a point, AHEAD of Sp*rs and Man Utd., and only 4 points behind Chelski, I'd have laughed at you.

I think, despite all the issues he's faced (some self-generated) and still has to face, Arteta has convinced me he's the right man for us for the next couple of seasons at least. For a first time manager, taking on a massive club, he's done great.

Still some way to go I know, but Rome wasn't built in a day. (And never will be up the Seven Sisters Road).

COYG

Like always, I’d be happy with those decisions if they are consistent

https://twitter.com/kickarsehd/status/1 ... Oju3qtLD3w

Here is the same ref, Tierney, deciding this wasn’t a shove by a spurs player in the Liverpool game but decided Cédric’s one last night was. There’s no explanation other than feeling the pressure to give the home side the decision in both cases. Weak ref. Same ref who failed to send off Kane in the same game.

No we don't. We have had a discipline issue for a while. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYqZxC80RoM This is arguably a straight red. Holding could have picked up a 2nd yellow sooner. I like Holding but he knew Son had him for pace and decided to rough him up. As for the pen, I have seen them given as they, and not given. Can you definitely say it wasn't a penalty? No. It was soft unfortunately. We were second best and deserved to lose that game. No ifs, buts maybes about it. We should be good enough to win the next two games. The barcodes will be tricky but City hammered and just possible their heads are at the beach. That leaves a home game against Everton we should win. If we end up in the Europa we'll only have ourselves to blame.

I’d say it was half way between a yellow and a red. Some may call it an orange. On it’s own a yellow was quite lenient but a straight red would have been quite harsh.

I've just watched the first half in a booth in the pub - no sound, just the visuals, repeats and slo-mos. Couple of thoughts:

If Tierney can find justification for giving a pen for that Cédric 'shove' then he's just saving time. He was going to give a pen for something so it may as well be that. 10 a game, those challenges.

Son gets away with stuff in a way that our players just don't. He wasn't innocent in either of Holding's bookings, nor indeed in the incidents that led up to them. The first yellow was barely a foul. On the second, I thought Harding aimed to block Son's run and moved his shoulder into the space where he expected Son's shoulder to be. There's nothing wrong with a shoulder charge, nor indeed stepping across to block a run. But Son had ducked. His head was way below where it should've been. A lot is made of 'un-natural position' when it comes to hand ball in the box. That challenge looked violent only because Son had - wittingly or unwittingly - engineered the head contact by his un-natural position. No foul for me.

https://twitter.com/now_arsenai/status/ ... Oju3qtLD3w

The inconsistency clips can keep coming. A running theme with the likes of Kane and Son continually getting away with this

Agreed Gunfire. The penalty was harsh I’d say but apart from that no complaints, we were second best as you say. I simply don’t buy the theory that premier league refs have some sort of anti Arsenal vendetta.

I’m naive enough to believe that there is not a vendetta.

However the inconsistencies in refereeing across the entire league are numerous. We generally don’t seem to get the rub of the green but supporters of most clubs believe that.

For a long time I have felt that penalties and sending offs are too draconian in their effect when compared to the offence. 10 vs 11 games are a travesty, especially when the duration of the shortfall is variable. A red card in the first minute is immensely more than a red card in the 91st minute. It would be better to have the player substituted and suspended.

The thing is LTG, apart from whether balls have crossed a line and so on, so many refereeing decisions are subjective judgments. That isn’t to say referees don’t make bad decisions sometimes. But so often there are relevant questions either way about what a decision should have been. Rich is as biased as hell so isn’t the best person from which to get a fair view on a referee’s performance. Indeed, his comments about referees of games not involving Arsenal strike me as often being based on trying to show the referees in Arsenal matches have performed poorly.

I would agree with Gunfire and Bromley’s general views on this topic. I also remain to be convinced Arsenal consistently suffer unfairly due to referees.

From Fabrizio Romano
Talks ongoing between Arsenal and São Paulo for Brazilian winger Marquinhos [2003]. New meeting took place today, there are still details to discuss before full agreement

Fee around €3m - São Paulo need to sell Marquinhos or they will lose him on a free.

Of course I’m going to have a biased view with Arsenal and refs but as I posted before I’ve posted a list of all the for and against definitive decisions as I see it this season. If people think I’m overly biased then I’d welcome your own list of decisions or reviewing my analysis of the decisions.
What were the tackles where Arsenal players were lucky to not get a red this season? Which Arsenal penalties were borderline very lucky to get? Which Arsenal goals were debatable with a different ref view?
And then look at the rough end decisions I think we’ve had and as I’ve said before I’m sure each of them can be justified in the full letter of the law but equally if the reverse decision was given you could also justify it.

I think the penalty yesterday was soft but he nudged him so you can justify it being given, but when have we been given that? Saka away to palace when Kouyate just strong armed Saka out of the way?
The holding one I can accept is a red for the basic unsubtleness of the same player committing 4 fouls on the same player in 30 mins. But what if Son had got a red card in the first 10 mins for his elbow on Holding…..the narrative would be Son fell in to Holding’s trap and should control himself better as he gave the ref a reason to send him off.

Again this may be bias but the reaction after the spurs loss seems to be general joy from the ‘neutral’ media, I get that in terms of wanting the 4th place race to go to the end but generally I’ve never understood why we our failings are so joyously celebrated by the media and on the flip side how Spurs seem to be such media darlings despite showing nothing other than having the england captain and a charismatic but hard to like manager.

Shameless.
I don’t go to away games but I’m assuming this violence is commonplace for Arsenal fans away at Spurs. Does this happen when Spurs visit Arsenal?

Never heard of the guy, but the last 'unknown' Brazilian teenager we bought turned out to be quite good. All for this.

There is no excuse and I wish the person a successful recovery. Apparently the authorities are disinterested.

Match fixing. Only comes to mind as Conte had been banned from football for a time for it. Hmmm
That doesn't necessarily mean it applies to the NLD on Thursday. Still....there were a few odd and/or unusual incidents.

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NLD match fixing...hmmm

Google Klopp and Tierney to see what the Liverpool manager thinks of his refereeing ability.

I went for a drive after the red card. I am a fan of Holding and he has performed in big games but Ben is better by a mile. Maybe there is a reason he didn't play, I haven't checked. Holding is a decent 3rd CB. With the exceptions of the top 3 or 3 clubs, he's better than pretty much any other back up CB out there.

I don't expect us to get 4th. I will be (air quotes) 'happy' if we do, but sperz beating us makes it feel undeserving. In or present incarnation I don't expect us to do well in the CL. I also don't expect this squad to get a CL position next season. If we buy certain players for certain positions....maybe. But I'm not expecting. I am expecting Europa football next season.

If we get 4th it may be a one off. Newcastle will spend like Liverpool and Man City in the summer now that they have money. Chelsea and City did the same when they got uber wealthy owners. Newcastl will be a top 4 side within the next 3-4 years I think. The way they have been playing since they got a sugar daddy, they could be one of the challengers for top 4 and definitely a challenger for a Europa League spot.

With all the issues this season, I feel Arteta has deserved his new contract. He brought the side farther ahead than what was expected this season. We'll be no worse than 5th probably so that is a big accomplishment, especially taking the first month of the season into consideration.

I will only watch games to the point we are going to win. Its not how I or anyone else usually watch games but for the remainder of this season, its what I will do. I will go back to watching the whole game, win, lose or draw next season. For now, I'm burned out on this squad. I may not even watch one of the two games. Yeah, its that bad.

Which proves the point that refereeing decisions are often criticised by managers and fans. All teams rage at decisions they feel are not in their favour. We have the highest number of red cards of any club and one of the highest numbers of penalties conceded according to OPTA. It needs to be rectified. Personally I always believe in the maxim don't give the referee a decision to make.

Rich, let m say I have a deep respect for many of your views and thus posts. But in my view you lose some rationality when it comes to referees. How many people will list the decisions that go our way when a different subjective decision by a referee could or would have been to Arsenal’s disadvantage? Personally I reckon it would reveal an unhealthy obsession with refereeing decisions.

So I can’t name a single one. For me a game finishes and unless something extraordinary has happened in it like a great goal or it’s a crucial result in terms of winning a title, it gets forgotten. I couldn’t tell you the results of games let alone the scorers. Remembering whether a referee’s subjective decision has gone Arsenal’s way or against us is not going to happen.

But what I do believe is that they will exist. Statistically they have to whether or not I’ve forgotten them.

My thoughts too - Mikel is making a good fist of it and carries himself very well. Europa qualification is an achievement to build upon - and lets not forget there are still two games to play for ECL place. It could still happen, but we can't rely on others helping us out. Last time Burnley won a league game at Tottenham was in 1974!

So, not really a supporter then.

Mate your all over the place with this post. You think the teams done well in one paragraph and said your burned out with the squad in the next.

I can't agree with you about it feeling undeserved if we get 4th just because we lost away at Sperz. You know we beat them 3-1 at home and they had 11 players. Does that result not count? Or the fact that our results over the season have put us 2 wins away, despite having a rookie manager, a threadbare squad and the youngest team in the league?

When you say burned out do you mean you've lost interest or you are finding it too stressful? Personally I've found some of the recent games horribly stressful (Man U and the last 20 mins against Leeds). Sperz I didnt find stressful because it was over as a contest pretty quickly once Holding got himself sent off. I stopped watching at that point because it was just an exercise in futile misery, but I admittedly kept tabs on the score by occasionally checking the BBC website!

So, never mind how many points we get, etc., let's judge the season by how well we do away to Spurs?

One senses he is about to put Arsenal on his ignore list. They're obvious trolls.

Whoever gets fourth place will have deserved it in my view. If it’s Tottenham they will have deserved it. If it’s Arsenal we will have deserved it.

Fourth place will go to the side that finished ahead of the fifth placed side over a 38 game season. I don’t see how anyone can say that team won’t have deserved it, whichever way it goes.

Tottenham won’t deserve it. As far as I’m concerned, the first thing they can do for me is chuck all their medals and all their caps and all their pots and all their pans into the biggest f*cking dustbin they can find. Because they've not done anything fairly. Theyve done it all by cheating