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Post #509601  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:51 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
DHD wrote:
I’m not black nor am I from a minority so I accept I probably know little and understand less on this particular issue. I totally accept that knee thing is a mass gesture and it’s a collective message of dissatisfaction with which I and and everyone else should fully and freely associate ourselves. I’m happy to do so and I have.

I know it all started with a desire by a black American footballer to come up with a pointed response to the American national anthem which could set him apart from the celebratory and white-centred self-aggrandising themes of that song. Our national anthem is no better.

However, it has always seemed to me that whilst ‘taking the knee’ is an act of resistance, bending the knee is actually an act of subservience. There’s an odd contradiction for me.

Tommy Smith and John Carlos’ simple clenched fists were - and probably would be - so much more powerful, though probably more incendiary. No mixed messages there.

Not for me to say though.
No, if they wish to it is for anybody to say what they feel about this issue. The very public act of knee-bending is played out on our screens to invite us to think, and speak about racism. It is a subject relevant to all. Like you I think the clenched fist was much more powerful, and inspirational, than the bended knee. Many working-class people I know, and I include myself in this, find the gesture subservient. Being on our knees may help when playing with kids or doing the garden - anti-racism needs us to stand up tall.

I do like the gesture. Was Jesus' washing of the feet of his disciples an act of subservience? The spirit of BLM is not the same as that of black power. The clenched first is powerful, but, for me, delusions of military power and revolution have been far more misleading to the working classes than supposed delusions about democracy.

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Post #509602  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:11 am 
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Bernard wrote:
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Hi ltg,

I'm not a fan of loans without an option to buy. For a so called big club signing a player on loan without an option to buy makes little sense because the better they do then more the price tag goes up, other clubs take note and enter the bidding or the parent club decides to keep the player.

If he'd got us top 4 it would have been a calculated short term gamble that paid off but I find it hard to get invested in a player with no option to buy at the end of it all.

Even if we get Buendia, how confident are people that he’ll be better or represent an improvement on Ødegaard? Because I’m not. Signing Norwich’s best player, if we do, does less for me than signing an outstanding young prospect from Real Madrid who they rate highly enough to not give us an option to buy.

Some have found Ødegaard a little underwhelming. I haven’t. His performances against West Ham and Brighton, and he produced in other games too, convinced me he’s a special talent. Very special. Buendia has shone in the second tier of English club football. Sure, it’s a competitive league so I’m not going to write that off with ‘big deal’. But given the choice of either keeping Ødegaard or recruiting Buendia, my own personal decision would be to retain Ødegaard.

Also, Buendia has played first team football with three clubs. He had two seasons in the Getafe side, a small top tier outfit who have played in La Liga for only sixteen years of their existence and have never won the Spanish top tier league or cup. After that they sent him on loan to Cultural Leonesa, currently a third tier Spanish club. Then he was sold to Norwich. Certainly not the smallest club in England but miles away from what I think of a big club. I hope I’m wrong but I’m finding it hard to feel excited about him joining Arsenal.

To be honest socrates, you refer to us as a “so called big club”. Are we still? We’re now a KSE club, and have been for ten years. Sure, although it’s fallen over that time we’ve still a huge worldwide fan base and as a result can fill a big stadium. But the size of Arsenal has fallen under the Kroenke ownership regime, and I will be surprised if that decline doesn’t continue under Stan.

Spot on, Bernard. I'd be happy if Buendia was coming in to add to our midfield. But I'm despondent that Ødegaard is gone and Xhaka may leave too. Imagining that incoming player will replace the likes of Xhaka and Ødegaard, let alone be an instant upgrade seems to me to unwarranted. Unless there is someone at Arsenal who has a Wenger-like ability to find brilliant players at bargain prices, or there is fat budget so we can either buy top end players or have multiple attempts, there is no reason to think that any particular incoming player at that price range will be better than the like of Ødegaard, or Xhaka or even Mustafi (who was highly rated when we got him) and Elneny.

Even if Buendia turns out to be a hit, it will probably take a season or two for him to bed in. Its not like he's Busquets slotting into a midfield that already has Xavi and Inietsa.

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Post #509603  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:54 am 
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Rich wrote:
I think I’m more optimistic about the potential of Buendia in our team (should he sign) than others. I did like Ødegaard and I think if you were comparing them both Ødegaard’s ability would be more subtle. Signing a player from the championship or even a player from the prem is pretty rare for Arsenal. The things that stick out for me for Buendia is he is 2 footed, we’ve missed a genuine 2 footed player in central areas. I’m not even talking about goals scored with each foot, just basic passing and dribbling. Ødegaard was very one footed as was Özil. Buendia’s stats show a very high work rate and good in the high press and turnovers. Fans will instantly take to that as well.
Last time Buendia played in the prem he created more chances for his team mates than every player apart from de Bruyne and Trent. I think he only got 7 assists that season. Which I think is still more than any Arsenal player has managed in the past couple of seasons, and putting those chances on for Arsenal’s strikers rather than Norwich’s can up that assist total.


Hi Rich,

I agree, I'm actually quite excited about the prospect of signing Buendia (even though it probably won't happen).

From the admittedly little that I've seen of him he looks like a very dynamic type of player who both scores and assists goals. A livewire.

If I had to make comparisons I'd say Ødegaard is similar to Özil in his play, whereas Buendia is more like Alexis.


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Post #509604  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:34 am 
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I understand Sergio Aguero gave gifts to support staff on his departure and also gave away his car. A nice gesture. I know people will say he can afford it etc etc; but how many players actually recognise people at their club when they leave.

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Post #509605  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:18 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
I understand Sergio Aguero gave gifts to support staff on his departure and also gave away his car. A nice gesture. I know people will say he can afford it etc etc; but how many players actually recognise people at their club when they leave.


Yes, huge credit to him. Not many give.

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Post #509606  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:22 am 
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As long as our new midfield play more progressive football, I'm happy. More incisive passes, faster movement forward, more triangles around the middle of the field and more guts.

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Post #509607  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:03 pm 
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A new striker interest.

https://www.football365.com/news/arteta ... 3s-striker

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Post #509608  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:43 pm 
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Preferred Ødegaard anyway.

https://twitter.com/paddyjdavitt/status/1401213048044593156?s=21

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Post #509609  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:43 pm 
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Reports suggesting Buendia to Villa about to be completed.


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Post #509610  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:48 pm 
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Are we actually going to be beaten to Buendia by Aston *%^@*** villa.
Embarrassing.
Amateurish.


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Post #509611  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:50 pm 
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I know we’ve been *%^@ of late, but I honestly don’t believe a player would choose Villa over us even with us being in this state. Either, he’s not our first, primary target or we weren’t in seriously in for him. I get it may fit the narrative of how bad we are when it comes to transfers, but I tend to err on the side of this being b%*&s%*^. If we want him, I reckon we’d have signed him or will sign him.

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Post #509612  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:52 pm 
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Our targets must be elsewhere I’d have thought.

Wouldn’t go losing your *%^@ quite just yet.


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Post #509613  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:53 pm 
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david.d wrote:
Are we actually going to be beaten to Buendia by Aston *%^@*** villa.
Embarrassing.
Amateurish.

Not necessarily. It comes down to how much we think the player is worth and what he is worth to us and also what we can afford. If another club is prepared to pay more then in the long run it might work in our favour.

We stand a better chance of not paying over the odds in future negotiations once it is clear that we no longer pay any old price.

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Post #509614  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:54 pm 
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Darren wrote:
I know we’ve been *%^@ of late, but I honestly don’t believe a player would choose Villa over us even with us being in this state.

Martin Keown? :42laughter:

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Post #509615  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:59 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Darren wrote:
I know we’ve been *%^@ of late, but I honestly don’t believe a player would choose Villa over us even with us being in this state.

Martin Keown? :42laughter:

Can you believe that was apparently over an extra £50 per week?!

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Post #509616  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:00 pm 
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So Buendia is going to Villa for £30m plus add ons. If we don’t get Ødegaard we’ll look pretty silly. And sadly every time Buendia does anything for Villa next year it will be rubbed in our faces no matter whether we made a serious bid or not.


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Post #509617  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:01 pm 
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Anyway, I reckon Ødegaard is who they still want, failing that Aouer. I think Buendia was probably on our list but further down it.

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Post #509618  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:03 pm 
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Crazy how much villa have spent on transfers in the last 2.5 seasons. Huge outside investment, they’ve dropped over £200m on the team in that time with very little coming back in. Same story as Everton.


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Post #509619  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:13 pm 
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david.d wrote:
Are we actually going to be beaten to Buendia by Aston *%^@*** villa.
Embarrassing.
Amateurish.

David, I really didn't expect Buendia to come to Arsenal. Especially given our illustrious owners rather buy on the cheap. Held it to £30M steadfast. Not that just overpaying on any player means they'll be an excellent fit for the club, but the sheer lack of ambition from the Kroenkes no matter the cost. Doubt Stan even knows what club Buendia was bought from anyway.

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Post #509620  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:17 pm 
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Darren wrote:

Darren,
Have to see if Carlo actually changes his mind about retaining Ødegaard obviously.

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Post #509621  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:21 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Darren wrote:

Darren,
Have to see if Carlo actually changes his mind about retaining Ødegaard obviously.

This is it though, has he said anything or is it just rumour? I haven’t heard any direct quotes saying the player is staying at Madrid, just noise and rumour.

It fits the story to knock Arsenal over this Buendia deal but who knows if the interest was real?

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Post #509622  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:30 pm 
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Not sure we were ever serious. I doubt it would’ve been the money. Think Partey. Think Pépé.

We may moan about our spending policy but the evidence suggests we will pay what’s needed to secure our targets.


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Post #509623  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:30 pm 
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Darren wrote:
Zed wrote:
Darren,
Have to see if Carlo actually changes his mind about retaining Ødegaard obviously.

This is it though, has he said anything or is it just rumour? I haven’t heard any direct quotes saying the player is staying at Madrid, just noise and rumour.

It fits the story to knock Arsenal over this Buendia deal but who knows if the interest was real?

Thing is Ancelotti could give Ødegaard a new option. Zidane didn't rate him. So nothing concrete, but it could all change of course.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.justar ... 284004/amp

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Post #509624  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:06 pm 
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My worry about other the Buendia thing is that he may well have been 3rd or lower on our list of targets for that position, but what happens if we can’t get our first choice? Villa have moved early and if he wasn’t our first choice we are then forced to put all our eggs in the first choice or weigh up the risk of not getting the first choice player and accept someone further down the list because he’s about to go somewhere else.

I’m sure that if Buendia was our first choice we’d have put the same money up that Villa did and the player would have chosen us.


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Post #509625  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:09 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Not sure we were ever serious. I doubt it would’ve been the money. Think Partey. Think Pépé.

We may moan about our spending policy but the evidence suggests we will pay what’s needed to secure our targets.

We have spent recently but not wisely. We seem to have bought players without enough consideration to the personality of the player and thought towards settling in to the league. We very, very rarely shop for English based players, there is a much greater certainty of those players being able to continue the form that sparked the interest in the first place.


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Post #509626  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:36 pm 
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Buendia fee to villa is £33m, 5m in add ons and 10% of any future sell on fee.
Effectively over the £40m that Norwich wanted


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Post #509627  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Rich wrote:
DHD wrote:
Not sure we were ever serious. I doubt it would’ve been the money. Think Partey. Think Pépé.

We may moan about our spending policy but the evidence suggests we will pay what’s needed to secure our targets.

We have spent recently but not wisely. We seem to have bought players without enough consideration to the personality of the player and thought towards settling in to the league. We very, very rarely shop for English based players, there is a much greater certainty of those players being able to continue the form that sparked the interest in the first place.


Wouldn’t argue with your point about spending wisely Rich but with respect, that wasn’t my point. Recent history suggests that if we really want someone, we pay the money.

The purchases may have been unwise, but money does not seem to have been a major issue.


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Post #509628  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:34 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Not sure we were ever serious. I doubt it would’ve been the money. Think Partey. Think Pépé.

We may moan about our spending policy but the evidence suggests we will pay what’s needed to secure our targets.


I agree. We have spent big whe we supposed;y wanted a player. I am not sure Buendia was a must have.

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Post #509629  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:12 pm 
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A Chelsea supporting friend of mine sent me this.
Attachment:


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Post #509630  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:10 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
A Chelsea supporting friend of mine sent me this.

Shows how Chelsea have set up their selling policy perfectly. Because they’ve spent a lot more than us on transfers in. £220m in the last window alone. They’ve just sold Tomori to Milan for £25m.
We’re left with duds we can’t shift and have to accept peanuts, or we screw up contracts and players leave for free.

Also villa at £254m, the table says since 2016 but in Villa’s case it might as well be from 2019 because that’s all in the last two seasons. A club who are seriously investing in their team.


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Post #509631  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:50 pm 
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Darren wrote:
I know we’ve been *%^@ of late, but I honestly don’t believe a player would choose Villa over us even with us being in this state. Either, he’s not our first, primary target or we weren’t in seriously in for him. I get it may fit the narrative of how bad we are when it comes to transfers, but I tend to err on the side of this being b%*&s%*^. If we want him, I reckon we’d have signed him or will sign him.

I think Villa have just thought strategically about this and totally outmanoeuvred us. Knowing we really want Ødegaard and there would be a delay they slipped in, paid a bit above our offers and secured the player. Ødegaard, and Arteta’s desire to obtain him could really hurt us. We should put a date on this with Real Madrid, preferably in the next week or so and either buy him or move on to our next target. I don’t think I value him anywhere near 60 million but if he becomes the only viable target left we will be stuck with paying over the odds. We can’t wait until after the Euros for this to happen.

No use blaming the Kroenke the money was there.

We need players who will score goals as well as make them. A lot of the players on the market do one or the other

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Post #509632  Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:23 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Our targets must be elsewhere I’d have thought.

Wouldn’t go losing your *%^@ quite just yet.


Well if we aren't going for other targets, then something's gone awfully wrong. But a lot has gone awfully wrong anyway. :15laughter:

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Post #509633  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:17 am 
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I have found no official confirmation from AVilla that they have signed this bloke.

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Post #509634  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:13 am 
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Buendia has the same agent as Martinez according to Charles Watts. Both are apparently with the Argentina team for the WC qualifiers.

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Post #509635  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:56 am 
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I did like the idea of Buendia but one take I saw on Twitter is that at £38m that is a lot of money, and considering most of Europe is stone cold broke there will be much better deals out there this summer. Players are going to be signed for half the price clubs were quoted only 12 months ago. The question is whether we think those in charge of our transfers are capable of making it work


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Post #509636  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:59 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
I have found no official confirmation from AVilla that they have signed this bloke.

The assumption here that Buendia is joining Aston Villa seems based, or at least began with, Darren’s post 530344 on page 13259. He said he “Preferred Ødegaard anyway.” As I clarified yesterday, so did I. Myself, I was struggling to feel excited about spending a lot of money on a player who has been around a while (he’s 24) and the biggest clubs who have put him in their teams are Getafe (who after giving him two years in their side sent him on loan to a third tier Spanish outfit I’d never heard of before), and poxy Norwich bloody City. Especially if he could possibly end up competing for Saka’s place.

Darren also provided a link to a tweet by someone called Paddy Davitt who said words to the effect that Buendia to Villa was a done deal and should be confirmed in the next day or twenty four hours.

Now I don’t spend much time on Twitter and had never heard of this Paddy Davitt before. The question that needs addressing is whether he’s a reliable source. I haven’t got the faintest idea. Maybe Darren knows, or someone else here?


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Post #509637  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:03 am 
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Apparently Buendia already had a medical while in currently in Argentina.
Several reports from the Guardian, NBC Sports, Goal, state varying amounts from £30M/£32M plus with add-ons amounting to £40M to £56M total.
That's some deal.

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Post #509638  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:54 am 
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I would have liked to have seen Buendia arrive as he seems like a rare mix of goals and assists. However, I don’t know the extent of our interest in him so I can’t say whether we’ve screwed up or not.

If he was not top of our list all I can say is that I hope we are able to secure our top target and are not messing around waiting for Madrid to change their mind on Ødegaard.

Fingers crossed that for once we have a shrewd plan in place and can execute it accordingly.


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Post #509639  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:19 am 
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Arseblog saying we are now turning our attention to 27 yo Rodrigo De Paul. Never heard of him although people are saying he is in demand. Always worry about players who have never played in the EPL. They don’t always have a good first or second season. Partey was hardly a success. Pépé taken 2 years. And many like Mustafi, SK and Torriera never really get there.

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Post #509640  Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:20 am 
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socrates wrote:
I would have liked to have seen Buendia arrive as he seems like a rare mix of goals and assists. However, I don’t know the extent of our interest in him so I can’t say whether we’ve screwed up or not.

Yeah, I think he would've been a fine addition but it's too early for despair over missing a player who only has one year in the PL behind him. If we don't manage to get a creative attacking midfielder at all this summer then that would be the time to rue missing out on Buendia.


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